cristphoto

I have an 06 TL that just hit 50,000 miles this week. After the first oil change I've always used Mobil One 5-20 weight oil. I've read (on Bob is the oil guy web site) that Mobil has had problems with meeting the API specs. Up till now I've always been loyal to Mobil One (I also always use their Mobil One oil filter) but am considering changing. I hear good things about Pennzoil Platinum oil. Are there any suggestions or concensus among TL users about which oil to use? I like to stick with one oil and not switch around. Thanks. Steve

Bearcat94

Get a free oil analysis kit from Blackstone Labs.

Try whichever Oil (the Mobil1, the Pennzoil, or both) and send the sample(s) back to Blackstone at your Oil Change Interval. See what the UOA tells you.

TeknoKing

search forum

cristphoto

Does that come in 5-20?

TeknoKing

^ Yep

Mobil 1 Extended, Royal Purple, Amsoil are the top 3 synthetic oils used on this forum...

Royal Purple is great, Mobile 1 Extended I'm running now, Amsoil I haven't tried. If you actually search the forum, you will see the reason and choice and why and why not.

vinnier6

iTrader: (1)

i have been a long time user of mobil 1, that being said, last oil change i couldnt find the grade of mobil 1 i wanted so i went with castrol syntec...before that i used valvoline powersynthetic whatever it was called...i dont think it really matters when using one of the leading brand synthetics....pick one...i know ferrari uses penzoil platinum factory fill....give it a shot...

greco9885

iTrader: (1)

royal purple oil, mobil 1 filter.

darksky

Seriously, synthetic oil isn't needed. Total marketing hype.

DMZ

I've been using Penzoil Platinum 5W-20 and a Bosch 3312 filter, the wider one. Both work fine for me.

http://pennzoil.com/products.html#Platinum
http://www.boschautoparts.com/Produc...PremOilFilters

Saw Royal Purple at Pep Boys last week, $8.95 a quart!
Sorry, but at that price, they can keep it.

I get the Penzoil at Walmart for $5.38 a quart or $19.95 for a 5 quart jug.

01tl4tl

Im on the penzoil platinum too, seems to be working fine.
You dont need synthetic, it has its benefits but not mandatory
I wont run longer intervals on it, just feel safer pushing the car more,,,or driving in traffic
Then I like to believe the special molecules are splitting and reconnecting all the time, like the website commercials show
K&N filter is my choice, made same place as M1 filter

RC51Ryder

There is an "Astro Glide" joke in this thread but I'm not going to touch it. Pick what oil you like, change it when you should and you will be fine. That's what I do.

leedogg

uh oh. another oil thread, here we go again, lol.

Tripnbeats

Igor hows the oil situation????? and do you want to start next week on our lil project??

bforbrian

iTrader: (11)

Amsoil all the way..

Mobil1 is in fact not fully synthetic; it's a scam, it's part synthetic and part regular

DMZ

Gee, is that how they got away with making $15 billion in the 3rd quarter last year alone?
With those kind of profits, ExxonMobil doesn't need my $$$ for their oil or their gas.

mengelke

Redline Oil is the best stuff. I used it in a racecar for alot of years with almost no bearing wear.

I hate cars

Amsoil synthetic straight 30wt in a warm climate like mine.

Redline makes an extremely good 5w-20 with a very high (for a 20) HTHS value.

whudini3000

iTrader: (1)

If you drive hard (70+)......try Kendall OIL. I have great success with this OIL in my 02 TL. As told, it does great job dispersing heat. Started when I was recommended by a customer who drove a RUF.

erick3

i went from mobil 1 to royal purple...

I hate cars

I know I say this every time but if any of you looked at actual results from people who run their car hard on the thinner RP stuff, you would drain it out of your engine immediately. All I can say is advertising at it's best (or worst).

The HT/HS is below the minimum acceptable level for most manufacturers.

While not all Mobil One is true synthetic, I would run it before RP any day.

I hate cars

I agree with you but legally all it has to be is a grpIII to be labeled "full synthetic". Many manufacturers play this game such as Pennzoil Platinum. Fine oil but not a true synthetic.

Most Mobil One oils are a mix of III and IV. A couple are IV or IV and V.

Some Mobil One products are awesome. Their 5w-40 is one of them. If I weren't already content with the Amsoil I'm running, I would be running the 5w-40.

Bearcat94

My understanding is that this is true of all the major brands (Mobil, Pennzoil, QuakerState, Valvoline, etc).

Not sure it it is true for the niche brands (RP, Red Line, Amsoil, etc).

Jays_04TL

LOL
I agree Its all marketing to get your $$$.
No need to put synthetic oil in our TL's.
Regular oil will work just fine.

I hate cars

Definately. Mobil One is not the only one but it gets the most bad press for it. It's very common practice. M1 is still a great oil. My biggest problem is they charge a group IV price for their group III oil.

Most of the botique brands, Amsoil and Schaeffers for sure, clearly label their group III oils as non-synthetic dino oil. Not sure if Redline and Royal Purple make a non group IV or V oil.

I hate cars

Not necessary but it helps in extreme cold, hot, hard driving, and extended drain intervals.

Jays_04TL

It may help with extreme weather conditions I will give you that sir.
As far as extended drain intervals I would still try to change every
3000-4000 miles no matter what kinda of oil Im using. I go by the
color and thickness of the oil to determine when it needs to be changed
anyway.

I'm just not sold on the fact that synthetic oil is a benefit to use.
Just my

Someone prove me wrong with some good info.

I hate cars

For anyone interested, this is why I put a lot of weight into the HTHS rating of an oil.

"Three Exxon Researchers found that a minimum HTHS of about 2.8 mPA.s was the MINIMUM HTHS viscosity needed for normal wear, with the higher the HTHS being better for minimum wear. IN general, the higher the viscosity, the greater the HTHS.

For example, in a fleet of taxicabs using a GM 4.3L V6 engine, if the HTHS was 2.35, the startup film was 0.097um and 2.56 um at running; if the HTHS was 2.98, cP, the Startup oil film thickness was 1.231 um while the running film thickness was 3.22 um.

In Dynomometer wear tests using four GM 3.8L engines, the wear mass of a connecting rod bearing was as follows:

HTHS 2.1
mass loss (gm.) - 190

HTHS 3.2
mass loss (gm.) - 28

For "mains" bearings:


HTHS 2.1
mass loss (gm.) - 150

HTHS 3.2
mass loss (gm.) - 40

A jump in HTHS by about +1.5 results in approximately 1/5 the wear. Now this relationship is not linear and flattens as one nears a 40+ weight oil.

I should also mention that this test showed little differences in wear between a high quality 5W20 and a 10W30 for oils of close HTHS. For example, The average wear of one of the 3.8L V6's showed a total wear of the Connecting Rod bearings as 48.4 grams for the 5W20 verses 44.3 grams for the 10W30. For a 10W40 oil, the wear was 39 grams!!!"

This test involves weighing the bearings, installing them in an engine, running the engine, removing the bearings, and re-weighing them to see how much weight they lost due to wear. Forget any other tests you have seen such as the wear ball test and all that crap. This is a real life test.

HTHS may be more important than viscosity. This is why I like Redline 5W20. You get the flow of a 20wt and the HTHS of a good 30wt.

The Amsoil I'm running has an HTHS of 3.6 which is signifigantly higher than what came in the car yet it's not that much thicker at operating temperature. It's truly a win-win situation.

I hate cars

I also change mine every 4,500 even though it's a premium synthetic that's rated to go 25,000. Even if the oil is good, there is still the contaminate load in the oil.

Generally a synthetic base oil has a naturally high viscosity index. This means it won't require as much viscosity index improver (VII) to get the multi-grade designation. VIIs are known to cause sludge and break down under high temps and high stress.

The oil I run is a straight 30wt since it contains no VIIs yet also qualifies as a 10w-30 due to it's natrual high viscosity index. I get all of the benefits of a straight weight and the benefits of a multi weight.

On the extreme end of things, a synthetic will always flow better when cold, much better.

With extreme heat, it won't break down as easily, won't coke as easy in turbo bearings, generally has a much higher flash point, and resists permanent shear.

It's not something you need but it's a nice insurance policy.

For what it's worth, I run a regular dino 20-50 oil in my 600hp turbo car with a 1,000 mile change interval. My oil temps run very low and unless I take it to the track, I'm never on the throttle for more than a second or two.

Elegant TYPE S

iTrader: (2)

Yup.. 100% correct. That's why I chose to go with Amsoil as well. Amsoil is the only synthetic, that's why these manufacturers never compare themselves or provide test results compared with Amsoil because they know they would lose. I did the 25k one or 30k one can't remember... but its comming to a time where I need to do the oil analysis stuff.

Just google Amsoil and the rest and the facts speak for themselves.

HONgDA

iTrader: (1)

I always use Mobil1 Synthetic and Mobil1 oil filter. Every Walmart sold out of the 5 qts containers so I picked up 5 qts of Castrol Syntec instead.

avs007

Actually, it is NOT correct. Mobile 1 IS synthetic. Group-III synthetics are still legally synthetics... Why do you consider Group-IV the only synthetic? Because PAO is not dino oil? You do realize that Group-IV is ALSO dino based... The PAO base stock is made from Xylene gas, which is made by thermal cracking dino oil.

Group-III is made by hydro cracking dino oil. Both start as dino oil. Only difference is Group-IV starts from a gas (unlike Group IIII) so it has less contaminants. (Think distilled water vs reverse-osmosis filtered water)

Sure a Group-IV is better in regards to having less contaminants, but that doesn't make Group-III oil a bad oil. Reverse-Osmosis filtered water is still very pure, and better then drinking water out of the pond.

And for the record, Amsoil is not the only "synthetic" with regards to being a Group-IV. German Castrol is also a Group-IV synthetic.

01tl4tl

the govt changed the standards and allowable materials to be added to oil:
result was a change in some brands-example Mobil1 went to blended base formula BUT was able to keep the same name
Old school good Mobil1, is now Mobil1 High Mileage

I dont care if its pure synthetic base or whatever- as long as it protects the engine, and sprectrograph analysis is the only true judge of that.
Color and viscosity are lousy indicators. Dirty oil is working well!

01tl4tl

Kendall oil is castrol gtx--same company
Some years ago they were advertising kendall for racers and castrol to street cars
In a cost saving move they dropped kendall ads and sell GTX as `racers oil for the street`!
Thats why the tv ads with simulated dyno wheels and racing type demo of the oils protection.
You can still find kendall, and its good oil but its not new or different

I hate cars

Yes, but the gas to oil oils are synthetically made. Even though highly refined, grpIII is still refined oil oil lol.

And of course there are plenty "real" synthetics like most Amsoil, some Mobil One, Royal Purple, Redline, Schaeffers, etc.

I find it funny that the high end manufacturers label their grpIII oils as dino oil while their IV and V is labeled full synthetic. Then you have Mobil and plenty others calling their group III "full synthetic". While it's legally correct, it's misleading to the consumer.

Jays_04TL

Great stuff man. Is there a brand that you use in your TL that
I could research about?

DeMAN

A oil debate is fruitless.

Change your oil on the interval normally recommended in your manual and you will be fine with any good high quality oil; it doesn't matter.

99% of the people here will not keep there car long enough for oil to be a factor if its changed when its suppose to. I use the meter on the car for my changes. I will drive a little longer if I've been on long road freeway trips.

I hate cars

I agree that for the vast majority of TL owners, the car will get sold, wrecked, rotted out, or stolen before you wear the engine out on any modern oil.

For the OCD people like me who plan on keeping it half a million miles, there's Amsoil lol.

I hate cars

Bobistheoilguy.com is a great place to start. It's completely overwhelming at first. So much information to digest that the first month or so you feel like you know less than before you began. Then you start to discover who really is an expert and who posts opinions as facts.

I highly suggest Redline 5w-20 for any climate. It has no VIIs so you could call it a straight 20wt. It has a very high (for a 20wt) HTHS so you know it will hold up well under high load/high temperature conditions. It's a 20wt obviously so no worries about cold flow. With the thin 20wt and high HTHS value, it's like having your cake and eating it too.

There's Amsoil's ACD that I run. It has a good HTHS of 3.6. It's a straight 30wt (no VIIs) but qualifies as a 10w-30. I run it because it rarely gets below freezing here and summers are 105+ so a 10w-30 fits the bill nicely.

What sets it apart from most oils is a high ZDDP and high TBN (total base number) level. ZDDP is probably the most effective and widely used anti-wear additive. It is especially beneficial in the valvetrain at the cam to lifter contact.

Any newer SM rated oil (pretty much anything on the shelves) has a mandated lower ZDDP level. ZDDP in high doses *might* be bad for the catalytic convertors. When they upped the federally mandated emissions warranty to 80,000 miles, they changed the allowable ZDDP level in oil. The thing is, unless your car burns oil, there's no way ZDDP can hurt anything. Anything short of visible smoke is not going to cause problems. Mine just turned 70,000 and I've been using the same oil for over 50,000 of those miles with no issues.

Hope this helps.

Jays_04TL

I'm the 1% then homie. I'm trying to put 200,000 on this baby.
My prev car (honda) had 180,000+ when I sold it & its still running
strong. I'm just interested in whatever I can do to prolong
the life of my TL.

Elegant TYPE S

iTrader: (2)

Actually it is CORRECT, because the true definition of synthetic means something that is not natural and has to be created by man, not highly purified. I understand Mobil 1 fits the legal definition but not the real one of being SYNTHETIC. Lets face it, they rewrote the legal definition of synthetic to make money. They basically changed their ways after once being truly synthetic when they saw Castrol was being allowed to market their purified oil as synthetic. Obviously purified oil is much cheaper to produce than oilt that has to be created. So they tried to file a suit against them but they lost and when they didn't win the case in court, MOBIL 1 decided to jump off the ship and say F this and do the same thing as Castrol, because it obviously is much cheaper just purifying something then creating it from scratch. Just because they legally changed the definition of synthetic does not make it synthetic. And in the entire process you outlined, I understand what you are saying 100% and I know others might get lost in your complicated vocab, however you are basically saying the same thing in fancier terms so lets not spin anything here. We will leave that up to the manufacturers. Simple as this:

There is 2 types of oil, one is PURIFIED OIL that is marketed as being SYNTHETIC which tricks the consumers.

And there is the other that is genuinely synthetic and the only one to my knowledge that fits in this category is AMSOIL and you might be right with the other one you mentioned being in this category as well. I encourage everyone to just google this and the facts are clear as night and day. They did a test with amsoil and mobil 1 so called synthetic and.. the results showed that amsoil (true synthetic) much better than mobil 1 (so called synthetic).

Here's just 2 of the many examples that is available to prove why amosoil is better:



This is showing the protection on a 4 bear wear test. Basically 3 balls put together lubricated with the oil and then a 4th ball placed on top and forced to rotate on it, and the friction and scarring due to it is being measured. Obviously the lower the friction, the lower the scarring and the better the protection from the oil.




This one is showing which oil operates best on frigid temps and cold engines and gives the best protection. Lower the viscosity the better the protection in cold start and protection. Its much easier spraying something like water out then maple syrup.

There is much more info, just search.. and look I didn't have to use fancy terms to explain any of this.