Road Rage

I could care less at this point about whether anyone uses this tip or not. I do not overthink, I merely use logic in application of what I know and have learned to everyday life, including changing my oil. I do not obsess over it, because my method does not require any thought other than storing the case of oil upside down. That way, the vast majority of my additives get into the engine, where they do not get time to settle out, as it is driven every day, for cryin out loud! And I do not choose to let the oil can sit in the funnel for 5 minutes per quart. We did a controlled study of this in the lab, and found particulate settling over a month or two - is this significant? Who knows, but in our plant, and we routinely "stir the 55 gal drums" of the industrial lubes using colloids. OK?

I find it revealing that when this was posted on the s2ki.com tech forum, it was accepted as a useful tip that has no downside.

And hopsterguy thanks for giving it a shot - but St. Jude must be active in this thread.

P.S. I forgot - this is not s2ki.com. St. Jude is the patron saint of lost causes.

hopsterguy

Oh well... I tried.

Shake away my friends.

fast-tl

See? How hard was that?

JackSprat01

Just so you know, Road Rage, your very good advise is not lost on all of us. Don't ever relent because of a few thick skulls!

Rexorg

After reading the info from all the "experts", I am going to store my oil bottles on their sides!!! lol

rmastbro

I thought I would share this with anyone who has trust in the Acura service technicians.


I dropped off my 04 TL to the Courtesy Acura dealer in Sanford, FL for my 1st oil change and to get out a couple of ding/dents in my doors. I brought my own oil to the dealer since I wanted to start out with using Castrol synthetic oil which they told me would be no problem. At the time when I purchased the oil I thought I needed 5 quarts but bought 6 just in case. I left the synthetic oil in the car and informed the service rep of this and to make sure they use the oil that I brought instead of the normal 5-20W oil they normally use. I requested the service rep that I wanted to keep the empty containers which I am glad I did!!

When I went to pick up the car a few hours later I found the all empty oil containers in my trunk in a bag. Let me repeat that just in case you missed it ALL 6 empty containers (users manual states I need 4.5 quarts) !!! Luckily I did not drive away with 1.5 extra quarts of oil... only God knows what would have happened after hearing about the Honda CRV recall of potential fire from leaking oil.

I check my oil dip stick and sure enough I have about 1-2" above the max line. I immediately went to the service rep for an explanation??? He told me that a new guy was changing the oil and was sorry that it happened... Needless to say I was a bit pissed out and had them drain out 1.5 quarts of oil and to install a new washer.

Since the service manager was not at work at the time when I picked it, I did not push the issue of the incompetence of the service department. That will be tomorrow!!!!

Lesson to learned check your oil level if you ever get your oil changed by anyone other than yourself.

Next time I think I will be doing the oil change myself.....

MODERATOR RON A EDIT: This is the second time you are sharing this with us. I hope it is also the last time.

fsttyms1

if you are worried about your engine and oils dont be. do the manufactured recomonded break in. then change it when ever you like with what ever brand you like. i personally think 3000 miles is a HUGE waste of money by todays engine and oils build qualities. for teh first 100,000 miles of my engines life i ran standard oil at 7500 mile change intervals. at 100k i switched to mobil 1 syn at 10,000 mile intervals. my dirving is considered Severe. my car idles ALL day long. it gets turned off only for my lunch break. i have had my oil tested about every 3rd oil change. there has never been any thing bad found. i did a compression check at 100k and it was barely off the factory new specs.
but it all comes dont to Proper Break In. if that isnt done correctly things dont get seated properly!

fast-tl

This has been my point all along. I'm certain that automotive engineers who know the company will have to support the million engines out there test these motors on everything from "Jim's motor oil" to the best stuff on the market to ensure they don't arbitrarily grenade.
I now understand that RR does this sort of fluid analysis for a living so he has an educated opinion. HOWEVER, that stuff does not necessarily pertain to the average driver. And of course it's necessary to treat a 55 gallon drum of oil differently than 1 quart( on teh issue of additives settling). Why? Because I don't know any guys who can simply shake up a 55-gallon drum of oil, but I know several who can perfrm that feat on a quart bottle. So storage needs are different.

We rely on the manufacturers to control flash points and other technical aspects so that the average consumer doesn't have to so concern themselves.

Listen, if you guys wanna talk shop about printing, I could hang all day, but the technical dialog I could add may not have as much an application as it sounds. So yes I may sound educated on the subject of my preofession, printing, but should you really concern your selves with the nanotechnology involved? Not necessarily. I doubt that Earnhardt Racing or the Castroneves group stores their oil upside down.

fsttyms1 reinforces my point that we can really overthink these things. Of course, I wouldn't recommenf "Jim's motor oil" but as long as we stick with major brand names, we should ALL be fine and not feel guilty that we're abusing our engines. No thick skull needed to comprehend this.

Road Rage

Actuallt, I am an IT Director now - I was a tribologist and have ME/EE degrees, but found IT more lucrative. I keep up on this now as an intellectual and advisory role, to a limited clientele of exotic car owners and some racing teams. Plus my own high perf machinery. Even my lawn mower has flames. (No kidding).

Road Rage

I would agree with you, but for this: How about the severe sludging problems in late model Camry V-6's with OCI's (oil change intervals) of just 7500 miles? How did Toyota, one of the most reputable mfr's in the world, miss this? Fact is, their oil gallies and channels were badly designed. No test stand or engineering projection can duplicate the real world, where people sit in stop and go traffic for hours in the dead of Summer, A/C blasting away, as the transaxle and engine cook the oil? However, the reserve oxidation resistance and shear stability of the best synoils and their additive packages would likely have reduced this to a mere annoyance. It is impossible for the layperson to know this, so a bit of "Road Rage over-analysis" can be viewed as a safety margin, not just an intellectual abstraction.

I think the 100k mile 2000 TL is a good story, but is not the definitive answer - it speaks more to Honda's engineering, and good fortune. I think Honda engines could run on boar mucous and still get 100k. Let's see how things look at 200k.

Now, i am on record as supporting Acura's MiD OCI, as long as an oil like Motorcraft synblend or the amazing Havoline 5w20 are used. The Havoline formula now meets the API SM spec, and is a GF-4. GF-4 established higher standards of resistance to deposit formation, which is from oxidative breakdown of the oil. I doubt that any mfr can meet GF-4 without using severely hydrocracked oils, which may also be called synthetics by today's standards. So comparisons to the "good ol' Pennzoil" of just 5 years ago is a world away, and makes for apples to oranges comparisons.

Rage out!

fsttyms1

you should see it by summer of 05 by my self and 1 other member!

Rexorg

Anyone out there have a few extra quarts of boar mucous laying around? I'll give you a couple of cow magnets and you'll soon be getting 50 mpg in your TL like I do.

P.S. I have a PhD in nuclear physics, but have found I can make more money collecting aluminum cans, and I am never thirsty.

MisterLawyer

...and to the readers of the acurazine forums.


Thanks for your expertise, Roadrage!

acurazy

now i have to buy another rack to put next to my wines.

JackSprat01

THAT'S IT! Hmm, get-rich-quick idea! The Road Rage Oil Storage Rack! "Handy storage of motor oil so additives stay where they belong: near the cap!" LOL

Hey Road Rage, I live in Richmond too, wanna business partner on this? You can even hold the patent!

WOOCHOW

I love oil wars! As a member of a VW diesel forum I see a good oil war at least once a year and find it amazing how passionate people are about thier oils. Personally I believe that RedLine is one of the premiere oils out there, but expensive and a bit hard to obtain. Mobil 1 seems to be the best chioce if availability and affordability are important to you. I refuse to use Amsoil, not because of any quality issues, but because of the way it is marketed and sold. I agree with Roadrage on the vast majority of what he says with the exception of his promotion of the use of additional additives in your oil. It is my belief that a quality motor oil is a balanced package of additives to the base stock and that indescriminant use of additional additives will only throw that formulation out of "whack". However, Roadrage is much more highly educated and experienced than I in the area of chemical engineering and his opinion must be respected.
Now I have a question, my 2005 TL came with free oil changes for life. Do all Acura dealers use Honda's 5w-20 as thier bulk fill, or are they free to use whatever they want as long as it meets Honda's specs? I know nothing of the properties of the Honda oil-is it any good? Thanks; and keep the oil war burning!

Road Rage

You are right about the TL not needing special oil additives, BUT....

You are misinformed and have mischaracterized my position on additives (I am sure by your tone it was not intentional, so this is not a flame, but an important clarification). I have never endorsed a blanket, regular use of standalone oil additives- anywhere. I recommended ONE SPECFIC product for ONE SPECIFIC CASE: to save you the time of searchingand to make sure others do not start repeating your misstatement, I will summarize: some people have made the non-Honda recommended change of oil before the MiD says so for the first change. Since we analyzed the Honda factory fill a while back, and found a high amount of certain additives NOT FOUND in any standard mineral or synthetic oil, the search was on for a standalone additive formulation that had the right balance of ingredients, close to Honda's OE oil. That product was MaxLife Engine Protector, and I recommended it only for people who wanted to ensure they were using similar chemistry to the factory fill. Period. To avoid further misinterpretation, I will not say ill would come of the engine were the factory fill changed early, as I have no empirical evidence to back that up, and do not blow air. However, who among you thinks Honda would recommend this to damage the engines?

If you can get another member to say I recommended any additive for continuous use, I will ask to have this response withdrawn.

Please do try to keep your facts straight - thank you.

RR.

P.S. Honda oil is made by Mobil, and appears to be a re-packaged version of their Drive Clean mineral oil product. It is a middle of the road product compared to other, better mineral oils, such as Motorcraft and Havoline. Again, I am not saying it will cause the engine to wear prematurely, but it would not be my rec or product of choice for those who want to use a better mousetrap. I am sure dealers (as free market businesses) may use any API-spec oil for routine maintenance - but the only oil they sell the consumer in quarts that i have ever seen at any Honda or Acura shop (I have one of each in my stable)is the Mobil product.

P.P.S. I have some issues with Amsoil as well, as I have some inside info about some things that went down years ago that trouble me. Plus, their advice recently to an S2000 owner to use a GL-5 gear oil in the tranny was just flat-out wrong. Their motor oils have been showing an affinity of late for thickening, and I have yet to see a 25K used oil analysis that looked like one I would accept for my car. However, some of their products are fine. I think their marketing, and the whole synoil marketing model in general, exaggerates the benefits vis-a-vis TODAY's (not 10 years ago's) best hydrocracked and hydroisomerized GIII base-stocked mineral oils (Motorcraft, Havoline, Pennzoil).

P.P.P.S. I changed my oil at 3K and added one bottle of MLEP - I will not add another.

6speedv6

LOL ... lawn mower