BUD001

Hi , firt-time poster here, love all the information.

I currently drive a 2001 C320 Mercedes. Lately, it has been giving me nothing but problems. Just a month after my warranty expired (in may) the alternator broke down in the midle of the night and stranded me. I called Mercedes NA and bitched (they comped the parts) but i still need to pay over 600 dollars in labor and rental car costs

So, i am car shopping again. My family is very German-car-oriented and i havent had a FWD car since my first (1997 Lexus ES300). However, i test drove the TL and love it (love the voice activited stuff and the Nav). My target is a Dark Gray or White TL with Nav and Automatic.

So, anyways, there are couple of questions:

1. Is there a scheduled maintainence package available? (i am used to free scheduled miantainance and i want to pay it and get it over with together with the car)

2. I plan to ask for 20K at trade in (my car is extra/low milage for a 4 year old at 38K miles). Is it unreasonable? The car is well cared for and always garaged indoors. It is pretty loaded with the only thing missing being the sport package and the nav system.

3. I live in the Miami area and want to know realistically how far i can go with the bargaining (and at this point should i wait for the '06s?)

4. I got an ipod and plan to use it with the car. in my Merc i use a cassettre adapter but i plan to have the TL wired. how much is it and would it void my warranty?

I hope i can hear from you guys with some advice.

SodaLuvr

Maintenance I can answer....that's my specialty. Anything else I'm clueless.

Maintenance on the TL is fairly simple. Since most people on this forum do a mixture of highway and city, the OLM typically calls for an oil/filter change + tire rotation every 5000-7000 miles.

Every 4th service, the OLM will call for an extensive inspection, as well as the replacement of other parts, usually the air filter and in-cabin microfilter.

Acura has been taking lessons from GM on the simplified maintenance system, by extending the service interval on their ATF, MTF, and Antifreeze to 100K. However, I recommend servicing the ATF and MTF for the first time at less 10K to remove as much of the debris leftover from the break-in period as possible, then at least every 20-30K thereafter.

Draining and Refilling the ATF costs about $!0-$15 in parts, and is very easy to do. (No Pan). MTF costs $20-$25 in parts, and isn't that difficult either.

You can get the oil/filter change and Tire Rotation together from Walmart using Pennzoil 5w-20 and Supertech Oil Filter for about $20-$25.

Michael

BUD001

So there is no standard dealer scheduled maintanence that i have to follow?

SodaLuvr

Not sure if I'm understanding your question correctly.

Are you referring to a "set" maintenance schedule? If so, then the answer is no.

Michael

BUD001

i mean usually the car would show you (e.g. Merc tells you how many miles left until service A or B, or the green/yellow/red lights from older BMWs) when to get service, then you drive the car to the dealer and they do whatever and then send you on your way in about couple hours. they are called scheduled maintanence and usually come wiuth a booklet which you show the dealer, pay for the service and have the book signed on the page (to keep track of service history) Does anyone know what i am talking about?

MR1

As you know, an Acura is not a Mercedes. German cars do have a 'feel' about them. That said, I'd take my TL any day. Try kbb.com and edmunds.com to price out your trade. Dealers will generally come up with lots of reasons why yours is worth less. If you have the time and patience, sell it yourself or try carmaxx.

A review of some recent price post seem to indicate that about $32.5 is a decent price for 5at/auto/navi. Be prepared for folks to try to talk you into a 6spd.

A number of the TL's seem to come with various rattles and minor failures. Mine has had exactly one minor display problem in eight months and 10,000 miles. Very,very few have left their owners stranded. Ipods and rador dectors have been hard wired by a few members, see the navi section for advice on that. THere is no direct plug availble through 05. Keep us posted.

MR1

Yes, Acura has a similar system. It monitors various inputs like driving stlye, load etc and recommends service based on this information. Lots of us are a little anal and have the fluids changed more frequently than the car suggest.

BUD001

Yeah, the dealer i visited just called, and trying hard to push me into one (claiming big discounts before the 06s move in). Donno if i want a year-end car ( i like something that wont bomb in value).

Also thinking about purchasing a extended warranty plan (the sheer amount of electronics... )

i know the TL is not going to be German, but if i kit out the new 3-series to the same level it will cost me something like $46K.... thats 10K more for less stuff (no voice recog)

MR1

Acura values have historically held pretty well. No major changes expected for 06 as this will be the third year of this body style. Honda/Acura leaks very little info about upcoming changes however. If business remains strong dealer is correct about lack of discounts for new MY. Honda extended warranty can be purchased any time during warranty period, usually at a big discount from what the dealer will want.

BUD001

ahh cool. Because i was going to get an extanded warranty from Merc but they wont let me (they said i have to do that within the first year of ownership, which leave me scratching my head). How is your dealer relationship? in Miami, their Precision dealer (which i take it to mean the best service) is about 40 miles away from me, and i am lanning to use in-dealer maintanence programs

MR1

Not sure why this is just a 2way conversation. My dealer is also a precision service dealer. Our relationship is good but that might be because I've purchased three cars in the past 5 years though.

BUD001

I dunno why either... i read a lot of problems regarding the TL here, too. Is the car suffering from problems i should run away from?

Brettg

I got to say I dont know much about German cars, I read their quality
is WAY down lately, I did have a 2003 VW Passat GLX, a very nice car in all respects, and it had that German feel, but was VERY trouble prone.
So trouble prone I traded it in at a big loss twards the TL.
A 2 year old car with 27,000 miles on it should not wear out its fuel pump
(I cut it open), that on top of all the other problems, and I would not
buy another German car until I hear the quality is back up.

Our 2005 Manual trans TL has been trouble free so far, not even any rattles
so many complain about here...

Brett

mickey3c

LOL yes mercedes is famous for the cost of parts. If you only have an alternator to complain about after the warranty expired.... count your blessings. The acura will be at the dealer more than the mercedes.. I would say to get rid of it before 50K

BUD001

so you think i should keep the merc? is there acura problems i should know about?

ndabunka

I sold my 2001 CLK55 and bought my 04TL and have been pretty satisfied with it even though the TL has a LOT less power, it's got all the "goodies" (voice rec, great stereo, good handling, decent acceleration and is fun to drive). The 32,500 price point for an 05 NAVI TL is a good number if you can get your local dealerships to do it for that. The resale on TL's is still pretty good (My 04TL with 22K miles is still worth $28K after nearly 2 years). You can't get that with the Benz. Now for the bad news... Like all individuals, you do not have realistic expectations on the value of your 01 320. Dealerships will give you ONLY Trade in value, not private party values. It doesn't matter what kind of shape your car is in or how well you took care of it. If you want to get the most dollars out of your existing car you MUST sell it yourself. Using the information you provided above (38K miles on C320 in good condition), your trade in will only bring about $16,365. If you sell it to an individual you "might" get as much as $19,000 for it. PS - Unless you want to pay more for the same car, there is no reason to wait for an 06 (Most likely would sell for the full $36K price for a while). If you buy the 05 your essentially getting a zero-mileage NEW car for about $3,500 less than if you waited on an 06. PPS - There is an Acura Maintenance package you can get with the car that will cover most serivce through a specific period. When I bought my 04, I negotiated to have it included in the price. It's really kind of a sham as they "say" it's like a $400 value but in truth all it does is cover your first set of A & B services (mostly simple oil changes) for me through 22,500 miles. So, essentially I have not yet actually paid for any service work on my 04 TL myself yet.

MR1

Again, there are multiple reports of mostly minor compliants. Very few have been left stranded. Some realize that nothing is perfect, some expect everything and everyone else to be. If your Benz isn't why would anyone expect Acura to be? Spend as much time as you wish researching this forum and other places to draw your own conclusions.

From what I have seen and heard over the years, I have zero desire to again have a high mileage German car by any maker. But thats just me.

ac2001cls

BUD001... I say definitely don't trade it in not unless you know for a fact they'll give you a decent trade in value (which prolly won't happen) If it were me, i say to check with Carmax and see what they'll do. I'm willing to bet you they will definitely be HIGHER and offer more. I just sold my 01 3.2CL-S to them when i picked up my new 05TL NBP/Camel/NAVI/AT and all i'll say is that they offered me $3,000 MORE than what Acura was going to offer me for trade in! So naturally i went that route and was able to put a good amount of that down. Naturally i didn't put the whole thing b/c mainly i didn't have to, plus i wanted to bank some of if as well.

mickey3c

Well that depends... when you own a car like the merc or the tl you probably be better off trading in just before the warranty is over. That way they can cert the car and you get a decent trade value. I do about 20k miles per year and I am trading in about very 30 months.

If you are going to be keeping the car, I would not get a car in this segment since they seem to have their share of repairs. Any sports sedan will probably have its issues with brakes, tires, etc. So expect that.

Acura problems are all over this board and you can just hang on it for a day and see the issues, rattles, brakes, chewed knock senor wires, tranny oil jets, etc. Look at the 2G issues as well. That might have an indication of what is to come repairwise down the road. Acura has adressed some of the 2g issues in the 3G but has also had new issues in the 3G that did not happen in the 2g.

Prolanman

Also keep in mind when checking this forum that more people complain or post problems looking for answers than those who post to praise a car. I have a Nissan and a BWM as well and can tell you that there are as many if not more complaints on their boards regarding those makes. Every car will have some issues. There is no such thing as a perfect machine.

youngTL

I doubt there will be frequent repairs unless you get a lemon. The only things that needed to be changed outside of regular maintenance on my 96 TL have been the C/V joints and dash lights. There was an infamous transmission problem afflicting 2000-2003 TL's (terrible failures). Honda extended their warranty to 7yrs/100k miles. So far I haven't seen more than a couple odd ones out in the third gens (mostly early 2004), and none in the first gens. I think the biggest things people are having trouble with is rattles. But most of them are fixable.

SodaLuvr

Yes,
I referred to that as the "OLM" in my earlier post. OLM stands for Oil Life Monitor, but the onboard system is better known as the MID (Multi-Info Display I think) around here.

Michael

Secret Agent

I've had a Benz C280 and a C320....best ride..there is...or was it the Bridgestone tires I put on it...

I spent more days at the Car Dealership than I did going out to dinner...which is a "crying" shame...When you know the names of the Regional Dealers and all of the service people by name and say...Gee..wasn't this the "same" electrical problem we worked on last week...you know it's time for a change...The C320 should have been yellow...cause it was a lemon...

Of course on the good side.... it kept the cabin warm 30 minutes after leaving..and I wasn't feeling every bump in the road like I am..(Please give me your feedback on the bump situation if you like..maybe the key is the tires).

Mercedes will need to step up in technology and fix their electronics before I would go back...believe me the Service people even know it...nice paint though...and the drivers side door on the Benz doesn't bang you in the butt when you're not looking!

BUD001

Wow... a night away and so many replies... thanks for the advice guys... Secret Agent.. the first 6 months i had the car i went in many times for a blinker problem. they couldnt find the problem until they discover a faulty wiring harness or something... definitely annoying, but the dealer was beyond nice dealing with me.
I find a lot to like about my C-class. Its not very powerful (compared to the new 3, TL, etc) and the interior has went down 10 rungs from my old E-class (97 E320), but its always a good long distant hauler (when i lived in Boston i drive between Boston and NYC monthly) and despite rear wheel drive its good in the snow. I just need something new for a change for not so much money. My original target was the new 3: it drives well and looks good and its a BMW, but the options pile up the price quick, and the fitting and interior of the car pales in comparison to the last generation 3 (I practically grew up around BMWs, having rode in every series (3/5/6/7/8) when i grew up, so its sad to see BMW, Mercs, etc let themselves slump to cheap-material hell)

paisaman

Having traded in a 2000 VW Passat AWD I can say that the TL is a much smoother running car. Pat Goss of Autoweek fame who is a Mercedes nut said on his talk show that the TL was the one Japanese car that has a German "soul" in the sense of driving experience. The one area however where the Germans have the Acura and Honda's beat however is in the body-work. The sheet metal and paint looks and lasts much better in the German-built cars. It was very hard to put a ding in the Passat. But on the whole I have found the Acura a much better driving experience.