So I got Sued by DUVAL ACURA for $440......
10-15-2006, 08:10 AM
#41
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Originally Posted by AUPr8hd
I'm not defending the dealership. But, the "PAID" stamp only indicates HOW MUCH you paid, not that it was PAID IN FULL. If you look at the invoice total of $1979 and subtract out the insurance check and your $500, you still owe $440.
JAG could have advised you as to the best course of action. I'm glad you won your case. I hate dealing with shady companies.
JAG could have advised you as to the best course of action. I'm glad you won your case. I hate dealing with shady companies.
Initially I was told that the insurance company approved of work totalling roughly $2400. So a $2400 check was on the way......
$2400, I felt was blatant broad day light theft for 3 factory tires and 2 factory 17" rims, so I opted for aftermarket 18" Motegi's (a whole set of 4 tires/4rims which came up to $1979.45 as you can see in the bill and my reciept. So an upgrade from factyory rims to aftermarket rims 1 size up was cheaper than a replacement of 3 tires and 2 rims, because Acura overprices on their factory items, like every other car dealership.
I didn't bother scanning it, but I also have a bill I was given prior to the work being done on the car. The bill reflects $1979 like the reciept does and written on the bill, by Acura reps is "C.O.D" which means "Cash on Delivery". That means all I owe is $1979.
Now, the math part. I get a check from my insurance based on their $2400 quote, less $1000 deductible. That's roughly $1400, right? Then you add my $500 which is reflected paid in the reciept and you have roughly $1979, no? So we're done, aren't we? At any normal dealership, yes. But you see, my service rep had told me before even getting the estimate from my insurance, that he will exaggerate the damages so as to get "me" more money from my insurance. Obviously, that's a scam they run for their pockets cos they couldn't bear to deal with the fact that the money they had just stolen from my insurance company, I turned around and "pocketed it", so they manufactured another bill entirely to extort it from me.
Make sense?
10-15-2006, 08:18 AM
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@ SouthernBoy- Good idea, man. Although it's not practical for me. lol. At my age, carrying checks around is a complete inconvenience. I've always thouight that's for "older people". But it does make alot of sense though I wouldn't be sure that a scribbled "final payment" wouldn't hold any weight as a "contract". Still worth thr try tho.
And thanks to everyone with the good words. I'm glad to share the results. In doing so, I save some of you the embarrassment of dealing with these guys.
@ HQTL6SPD- for some reason, your avatar could pass for MethodMan or Ice T. Weird semblance I never noticed till now.
And thanks to everyone with the good words. I'm glad to share the results. In doing so, I save some of you the embarrassment of dealing with these guys.
@ HQTL6SPD- for some reason, your avatar could pass for MethodMan or Ice T. Weird semblance I never noticed till now.
10-15-2006, 08:41 AM
#43
Unbelievable story! I think you should contact Acura for a couple of reasons.
1) The dealer is a private business, a franchisee, and has no 'right' to sell and service Acuras. Acura corporate can dump the guy at any time. He could be out of the Acura business in a heartbeat.
2) It would have been nice if you had countersued and won something from them, but now you can still 'win' some personal satisfaction by becoming karma for them. You can bring way more aggravation down on their heads than they did on yours. Even if they don't lose their Acura dealership franchise, Acura may start a full-blown investigation involving more than just your case and you know that will be a huge PITA for them.
3) You've already done the work! You've written up the details, you have accumulated evidence, there is nothing left to do except print it and put it in an envelope! As we say in sales, "Never give the same speech once!"
I think you should do it. You're losing steam, understandably, but I think you'd really feel better if you stuck it to these guys, and griping to Acura is probably your only route at this stage.
Good luck! Thanks for sharing this story.
John
1) The dealer is a private business, a franchisee, and has no 'right' to sell and service Acuras. Acura corporate can dump the guy at any time. He could be out of the Acura business in a heartbeat.
2) It would have been nice if you had countersued and won something from them, but now you can still 'win' some personal satisfaction by becoming karma for them. You can bring way more aggravation down on their heads than they did on yours. Even if they don't lose their Acura dealership franchise, Acura may start a full-blown investigation involving more than just your case and you know that will be a huge PITA for them.
3) You've already done the work! You've written up the details, you have accumulated evidence, there is nothing left to do except print it and put it in an envelope! As we say in sales, "Never give the same speech once!"
I think you should do it. You're losing steam, understandably, but I think you'd really feel better if you stuck it to these guys, and griping to Acura is probably your only route at this stage.
Good luck! Thanks for sharing this story.
John
10-15-2006, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnCollins
Unbelievable story! I think you should contact Acura for a couple of reasons.
1) The dealer is a private business, a franchisee, and has no 'right' to sell and service Acuras. Acura corporate can dump the guy at any time. He could be out of the Acura business in a heartbeat.
2) It would have been nice if you had countersued and won something from them, but now you can still 'win' some personal satisfaction by becoming karma for them. You can bring way more aggravation down on their heads than they did on yours. Even if they don't lose their Acura dealership franchise, Acura may start a full-blown investigation involving more than just your case and you know that will be a huge PITA for them.
3) You've already done the work! You've written up the details, you have accumulated evidence, there is nothing left to do except print it and put it in an envelope! As we say in sales, "Never give the same speech once!"
I think you should do it. You're losing steam, understandably, but I think you'd really feel better if you stuck it to these guys, and griping to Acura is probably your only route at this stage.
Good luck! Thanks for sharing this story.
John
1) The dealer is a private business, a franchisee, and has no 'right' to sell and service Acuras. Acura corporate can dump the guy at any time. He could be out of the Acura business in a heartbeat.
2) It would have been nice if you had countersued and won something from them, but now you can still 'win' some personal satisfaction by becoming karma for them. You can bring way more aggravation down on their heads than they did on yours. Even if they don't lose their Acura dealership franchise, Acura may start a full-blown investigation involving more than just your case and you know that will be a huge PITA for them.
3) You've already done the work! You've written up the details, you have accumulated evidence, there is nothing left to do except print it and put it in an envelope! As we say in sales, "Never give the same speech once!"
I think you should do it. You're losing steam, understandably, but I think you'd really feel better if you stuck it to these guys, and griping to Acura is probably your only route at this stage.
Good luck! Thanks for sharing this story.
John
10-15-2006, 09:20 AM
#45
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Originally Posted by TallDarknFugly
Not sure you read my initial post thoroughly.
Initially I was told that the insurance company approved of work totalling roughly $2400. So a $2400 check was on the way......
$2400, I felt was blatant broad day light theft for 3 factory tires and 2 factory 17" rims, so I opted for aftermarket 18" Motegi's (a whole set of 4 tires/4rims which came up to $1979.45 as you can see in the bill and my reciept. So an upgrade from factyory rims to aftermarket rims 1 size up was cheaper than a replacement of 3 tires and 2 rims, because Acura overprices on their factory items, like every other car dealership.
I didn't bother scanning it, but I also have a bill I was given prior to the work being done on the car. The bill reflects $1979 like the reciept does and written on the bill, by Acura reps is "C.O.D" which means "Cash on Delivery". That means all I owe is $1979.
Now, the math part. I get a check from my insurance based on their $2400 quote, less $1000 deductible. That's roughly $1400, right? Then you add my $500 which is reflected paid in the reciept and you have roughly $1979, no? So we're done, aren't we? At any normal dealership, yes. But you see, my service rep had told me before even getting the estimate from my insurance, that he will exaggerate the damages so as to get "me" more money from my insurance. Obviously, that's a scam they run for their pockets cos they couldn't bear to deal with the fact that the money they had just stolen from my insurance company, I turned around and "pocketed it", so they manufactured another bill entirely to extort it from me.
Make sense?
Initially I was told that the insurance company approved of work totalling roughly $2400. So a $2400 check was on the way......
$2400, I felt was blatant broad day light theft for 3 factory tires and 2 factory 17" rims, so I opted for aftermarket 18" Motegi's (a whole set of 4 tires/4rims which came up to $1979.45 as you can see in the bill and my reciept. So an upgrade from factyory rims to aftermarket rims 1 size up was cheaper than a replacement of 3 tires and 2 rims, because Acura overprices on their factory items, like every other car dealership.
I didn't bother scanning it, but I also have a bill I was given prior to the work being done on the car. The bill reflects $1979 like the reciept does and written on the bill, by Acura reps is "C.O.D" which means "Cash on Delivery". That means all I owe is $1979.
Now, the math part. I get a check from my insurance based on their $2400 quote, less $1000 deductible. That's roughly $1400, right? Then you add my $500 which is reflected paid in the reciept and you have roughly $1979, no? So we're done, aren't we? At any normal dealership, yes. But you see, my service rep had told me before even getting the estimate from my insurance, that he will exaggerate the damages so as to get "me" more money from my insurance. Obviously, that's a scam they run for their pockets cos they couldn't bear to deal with the fact that the money they had just stolen from my insurance company, I turned around and "pocketed it", so they manufactured another bill entirely to extort it from me.
Make sense?
With your math you are correct... but look at the bill they show.. it says the check from your insurance was $1,038.83...
Was the check your amount or their amount???
So, 1038 plus 500 is 1538 plus 440 is 1978 which is what they said....
10-15-2006, 09:21 AM
#46
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Originally Posted by TallDarknFugly
@ SouthernBoy- Good idea, man. Although it's not practical for me. lol. At my age, carrying checks around is a complete inconvenience. I've always thouight that's for "older people". But it does make alot of sense though I wouldn't be sure that a scribbled "final payment" wouldn't hold any weight as a "contract". Still worth thr try tho.
And thanks to everyone with the good words. I'm glad to share the results. In doing so, I save some of you the embarrassment of dealing with these guys.
@ HQTL6SPD- for some reason, your avatar could pass for MethodMan or Ice T. Weird semblance I never noticed till now.
And thanks to everyone with the good words. I'm glad to share the results. In doing so, I save some of you the embarrassment of dealing with these guys.
@ HQTL6SPD- for some reason, your avatar could pass for MethodMan or Ice T. Weird semblance I never noticed till now.
Incidently, "Consideration" refers to something of value must pass between the parties, which is generally monetary in nature, as in a down payment.
JohnCollins mentioned something I forgot in my post. By contacting Acura about this incident and its possible illegality, there is the chance they might pull this dealer's franchise, especially if this gets into the press. That means you will have essentially put them out of business.
10-15-2006, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Formula 350
With your math you are correct... but look at the bill they show.. it says the check from your insurance was $1,038.83...
Was the check your amount or their amount???
So, 1038 plus 500 is 1538 plus 440 is 1978 which is what they said....
Was the check your amount or their amount???
So, 1038 plus 500 is 1538 plus 440 is 1978 which is what they said....
They tried to get paid for something they didn't sell/work on.
Let's not try to over analyze this and question the validity of his story...
TallDarknFugly-
Glad these idiots didn't get you. Keep us updated on how things turn out. Good luck!
P.S You should see if you can get together with the other members who have been scammed by this dealership and contact the news stations together.
10-15-2006, 11:17 AM
#48
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Originally Posted by ndx2
P.S You should see if you can get together with the other members who have been scammed by this dealership and contact the news stations together.
This isn't the first time this dealer has been vilified on this forum, and usually for really shady stuff....karma is a b**ch.
10-15-2006, 11:21 AM
#49
One on the right for me
You might not have another claim against them for a civil action, but I think the DA might want to know about the practices of the dealership. The State isnt barred from charging them with any criminal violation resulting from the matter.
10-15-2006, 01:05 PM
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Most likely the dealership won't get pulled. The most that will happen is that some assistant manager will 'fess up' and get fired, dealer owner will write letter to Acura saying the 'rogue party' has been caught and fired and this won't happen again.
Then life will go on the same as it did before until someone else complains and wins.
Best thing to do is to sue them for damages and try to get someone criminally charged for forgery/perjury and fraud, especially the managers.
If you're going civilly, make sure its personal suits against the people as well as the dealer, so they'll have to get their own lawyers and the hopefully the dealer owner will cut them loose (ie. not pay for their representation).
Then life will go on the same as it did before until someone else complains and wins.
Best thing to do is to sue them for damages and try to get someone criminally charged for forgery/perjury and fraud, especially the managers.
If you're going civilly, make sure its personal suits against the people as well as the dealer, so they'll have to get their own lawyers and the hopefully the dealer owner will cut them loose (ie. not pay for their representation).
10-15-2006, 01:46 PM
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Why does the second copy of the invoice indicate only $1038.83 from USAA checlk # 39979133. Is this the check from the insurance company. It does not show the $1400 you indicate the insurance check was for. Was the actual check for $1400 or $1038.83. If it was $1400 than the Stealership was creating insurance fraud. if it was only $1038.83 than you still owed money.
What is the invoice C44770 for. It looks like a repair or attempt to repair a different problem. I can't read it real well, but it talks about Lab-Mechanical service for some type of scrathing noise in the right front. It sounds like there was some other service issues arising from the metal that ruined your wheels and tires. The $1979.45 was for the Wheels, Tires, parts, and labor to mount the wheels. It would not include any other labor for time and material spent in determaining any other problems or needs. Some of the original quote for $2400 may or may not have included the price for this inspection and appraisal. They may not have charged it IF you purchased their OVERPRICED wheels and tires, but when you choosed aftermarket ones, thery had to recupe there service cost. They may have not caught this until it was too late. They may have gone about it wrong, but I am sure the $89.00 they charged for labor was barely enough to pay the the labor for Mounting, balancing, and installing the tires. Any labor for the inspection and estimate may have been this later invoice. I know if I take my vehicle to a dealer with a problem and they have any major labor involved in the inspection that does not turn out to be warranty paid work, or I decide not to have it repaired, I will be liable for the time spent. When you declinded thier original estimate and picked Aftermarket, they have a right to recoup.
I am not on the side of the dealership because I am not sure if this is actually the case. I do not like the tactics of dealerships, but I have a hard time thinking that they would go through that much effort and time on some bogas amount of $440.00. There are 2 sides to every story.
No matter what the situation was, and if it was right or wrong,,,, I still commend you for fighting for what you believed was injustice.
Be carefull with future notifications to Newspapers, TV, and other Cunsumer agencies. They just may uncover something that you did not think about, OR FORGOT ABOUT........ That may backfire.
You won your case, so there is nothing the dealership can do about that anymore.
They can take YOU back to court for slander and defamation if it turns out that it was a justifiable charge and you report this to the masses.
I dont know how practical it would be at this time, but I would talk with the dealer to find out HOW they got the total charges and have them show you how the money they received was applied. Remember, There is a discrepancy in the amout that you said the insurance check was for and the amout they have listed as the amout received.
Sorry this was so long, but something does not add up.........
What is the invoice C44770 for. It looks like a repair or attempt to repair a different problem. I can't read it real well, but it talks about Lab-Mechanical service for some type of scrathing noise in the right front. It sounds like there was some other service issues arising from the metal that ruined your wheels and tires. The $1979.45 was for the Wheels, Tires, parts, and labor to mount the wheels. It would not include any other labor for time and material spent in determaining any other problems or needs. Some of the original quote for $2400 may or may not have included the price for this inspection and appraisal. They may not have charged it IF you purchased their OVERPRICED wheels and tires, but when you choosed aftermarket ones, thery had to recupe there service cost. They may have not caught this until it was too late. They may have gone about it wrong, but I am sure the $89.00 they charged for labor was barely enough to pay the the labor for Mounting, balancing, and installing the tires. Any labor for the inspection and estimate may have been this later invoice. I know if I take my vehicle to a dealer with a problem and they have any major labor involved in the inspection that does not turn out to be warranty paid work, or I decide not to have it repaired, I will be liable for the time spent. When you declinded thier original estimate and picked Aftermarket, they have a right to recoup.
I am not on the side of the dealership because I am not sure if this is actually the case. I do not like the tactics of dealerships, but I have a hard time thinking that they would go through that much effort and time on some bogas amount of $440.00. There are 2 sides to every story.
No matter what the situation was, and if it was right or wrong,,,, I still commend you for fighting for what you believed was injustice.
Be carefull with future notifications to Newspapers, TV, and other Cunsumer agencies. They just may uncover something that you did not think about, OR FORGOT ABOUT........ That may backfire.
You won your case, so there is nothing the dealership can do about that anymore.
They can take YOU back to court for slander and defamation if it turns out that it was a justifiable charge and you report this to the masses.
I dont know how practical it would be at this time, but I would talk with the dealer to find out HOW they got the total charges and have them show you how the money they received was applied. Remember, There is a discrepancy in the amout that you said the insurance check was for and the amout they have listed as the amout received.
Sorry this was so long, but something does not add up.........
10-15-2006, 02:01 PM
#52
One on the right for me
Originally Posted by tonywong
Most likely the dealership won't get pulled. The most that will happen is that some assistant manager will 'fess up' and get fired, dealer owner will write letter to Acura saying the 'rogue party' has been caught and fired and this won't happen again.
Then life will go on the same as it did before until someone else complains and wins.
Best thing to do is to sue them for damages and try to get someone criminally charged for forgery/perjury and fraud, especially the managers.
If you're going civilly, make sure its personal suits against the people as well as the dealer, so they'll have to get their own lawyers and the hopefully the dealer owner will cut them loose (ie. not pay for their representation).
Then life will go on the same as it did before until someone else complains and wins.
Best thing to do is to sue them for damages and try to get someone criminally charged for forgery/perjury and fraud, especially the managers.
If you're going civilly, make sure its personal suits against the people as well as the dealer, so they'll have to get their own lawyers and the hopefully the dealer owner will cut them loose (ie. not pay for their representation).
I think what he was saying in his first few posts is that he needed to raise those counterclaims when he was in court. Unless small claims court decisions are not final judgments or do not have any binding effect on "real" court claims (which I highly doubt is the case) he will not be allowed to bring another claim.
You do bring up a good point about going after the person individually. Vicarious liability wont bar an individual suit, but I think the law would require him, if he did file a counterclaim, to identify all parties when he was in court.
10-15-2006, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Pure Adrenaline
That sounds worse than my dealership. 
Glad you won the case, man.
Don't worry about the people questioning you. There are always jackasses who think they are Columbo and call BS if they see a single penny unaccounted for.
Glad you won the case, man.Don't worry about the people questioning you. There are always jackasses who think they are Columbo and call BS if they see a single penny unaccounted for.
I hope you were not calling ME a jackass. $440.00 is far from a penny.
I was just trying to make sure that "TallDarknFugly" makes sure he does not stir the pot too much without finding out how the figures were applied. Apperently you were not perceptive enough to see the major discrepencies.
As I mentioned in my post, I commended "TallDarknFugly" for following through and not backing down for what he believed in.
10-15-2006, 02:37 PM
#55
Originally Posted by kart69
Adrenaline,
I hope you were not calling ME a jackass. $440.00 is far from a penny.
I was just trying to make sure that "TallDarknFugly" makes sure he does not stir the pot too much without finding out how the figures were applied. Apperently you were not perceptive enough to see the major discrepencies.
As I mentioned in my post, I commended "TallDarknFugly" for following through and not backing down for what he believed in.
I hope you were not calling ME a jackass. $440.00 is far from a penny.
I was just trying to make sure that "TallDarknFugly" makes sure he does not stir the pot too much without finding out how the figures were applied. Apperently you were not perceptive enough to see the major discrepencies.
As I mentioned in my post, I commended "TallDarknFugly" for following through and not backing down for what he believed in.
I think ndx2 pretty much cleared it up as far as the dollar amounts are concerned. How are you making sure that he's not stirring up the pot? All of this has already taken place, even in a court of law. Are you trying to find a hole in the story to make yourself feel like Columbo? Are you going to report it to the court? Just take it at face value; it's just a story on an internet forum. It's not like you can actually contribute anything to the situation.
I wasn't singling anybody out. But on any forum you go to, there are people who write a page-long post about how this doesn't make sense, that doesn't make sense, there's 3 cents missing from the total amount, etc.
As for commending him... what good is that when you end it with a comment on how his story doesn't add up? I hope you never teach a class for retards. "Hey, great job on that drawing, kiddo, but you're still a retard."
10-15-2006, 02:54 PM
#57
Originally Posted by TallDarknFugly
I actually just got dressed right now. I'm about to go do a little research and talk to some people then I'll definitely get the ball rolling. Thanks for the advice. I take it you're in the auto business one way or the other. Sales, services?
Haha! No, nothing to do with the auto business, I'm financial. My point about sales folks saying, "Never give the same speech once" was that once you've done some work that results in something on paper, use it as many ways as you can. . .put it in a newsletter, try to publish it in a professional journal, make a presentation at a professional conference out of it. . .milk the work for all it's worth.
I know pursuing this might seem like a pain, but my point was that you already did all the work, collected your evidence, made your case--successfully. It seems a shame to stop now, when you might be able to get Acura corporate on your side with just a little more work, repackaging what you have.
I'm also former military (ten years AF), so I am really angry they took advantage of a service member. You go get 'em! Give 'em hell!
John
10-15-2006, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Pure Adrenaline
I think ndx2 pretty much cleared it up as far as the dollar amounts are concerned. How are you making sure that he's not stirring up the pot? All of this has already taken place, even in a court of law. Are you trying to find a hole in the story to make yourself feel like Columbo? Are you going to report it to the court? Just take it at face value; it's just a story on an internet forum. It's not like you can actually contribute anything to the situation.
I wasn't singling anybody out. But on any forum you go to, there are people who write a page-long post about how this doesn't make sense, that doesn't make sense, there's 3 cents missing from the total amount, etc.
As for commending him... what good is that when you end it with a comment on how his story doesn't add up? I hope you never teach a class for retards. "Hey, great job on that drawing, kiddo, but you're still a retard."
ndx2 did not address the entry that the check was listed as $1038.83 and not $1400.00. Was the balance aplied to OTHER service charges such as Lab-Mechanical and other parts listed on the other invoice. Maybe thoses charges were submitted to the insurance company and was part of the check.
The original quote/estimate was not posted here to see what the charges actually were. Maybe they included $440.00 for other service that was due no matter what was purchased.
As far as stirring the pot, I am talking about notifing TV station, Newspapers, and other consumer agencies. I think I mentioned that in my original post.
$440.00 is much more than 3 cents. Of course I have been out of school for quite a few years. Maybe there is some "NEW" math I am not aware of.
I am no Columbo, and What can I report to the court. I dont even know the total story. I do know that there are always 2 sides to any story. I am not the type to accept "BLIND FAITH" I look at all information and if something does not seem correct, I will question it. Maybe the aftermarket wheels and tires, along with the the work performed to diagnose the scratching noise on the right front while driving, added up to the $2351.54.
"TallDarknFugly" showed these 3 peices of paperwork, but what about the original estimate that was turned into the insurance company.
Maybe there are only a small few of us that actually think for themselves and question things that dont make sense instead of just looking at the surface as presented. "BLIND FAITH"
10-15-2006, 04:18 PM
#59
One on the right for me
Originally Posted by kart69
As far as stirring the pot, I am talking about notifing TV station, Newspapers, and other consumer agencies. I think I mentioned that in my original post.
I agree with that. Its one thing to go to Acura Corp and cry foul, its another to bring it into the public realm without rock solid proof.
That should not deter the OP by any means, just make sure you have everthing laid out in a clear format so it will be easy to break down and explain. Truth is a defense, just make sure there is no mistake whatsoever.
10-15-2006, 04:28 PM
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Hey kart69, give it a rest.
If TallDarknFugly said the original estimate was around $2400, then it was. And if he said he opted for the aftermarket rims @ $1900, then he did.
The math works out - $2400 that insurance co is willing to pay, minus the $1000 deductible, equals $1400 payout. $1900 bill minus $1400 = $500, which he paid.
The FINAL BILL is posted, which is ITEMIZED with clearly stated LABOR CHARGE. So don't tell me there could be other charges - would you pay for an unexplained handwritten-charge on top of the printed, itemized bill? If you would, maybe you should go back to school.
Whatever the dealership noted is meaningless - you're simply taking their story since it's in "writing" whereas TallDarknFugly just simply told you... you haven't seen the check, TallDarknFugly has. He's seen the original estimate, you haven't.
There are 2 sides to the story, and the court ruled in Tall's favor - meaning, his story makes sense, theirs doesn't.
So, TAKE HIS WORD FOR IT, re-read the thread/his story until you can comprehend the whole situation before questioning his story.
If TallDarknFugly said the original estimate was around $2400, then it was. And if he said he opted for the aftermarket rims @ $1900, then he did.
The math works out - $2400 that insurance co is willing to pay, minus the $1000 deductible, equals $1400 payout. $1900 bill minus $1400 = $500, which he paid.
The FINAL BILL is posted, which is ITEMIZED with clearly stated LABOR CHARGE. So don't tell me there could be other charges - would you pay for an unexplained handwritten-charge on top of the printed, itemized bill? If you would, maybe you should go back to school.
Whatever the dealership noted is meaningless - you're simply taking their story since it's in "writing" whereas TallDarknFugly just simply told you... you haven't seen the check, TallDarknFugly has. He's seen the original estimate, you haven't.
There are 2 sides to the story, and the court ruled in Tall's favor - meaning, his story makes sense, theirs doesn't.
So, TAKE HIS WORD FOR IT, re-read the thread/his story until you can comprehend the whole situation before questioning his story.
10-15-2006, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by kart69
Adrenaline,
ndx2 did not address the entry that the check was listed as $1038.83 and not $1400.00. Was the balance aplied to OTHER service charges such as Lab-Mechanical and other parts listed on the other invoice. Maybe thoses charges were submitted to the insurance company and was part of the check.
The original quote/estimate was not posted here to see what the charges actually were. Maybe they included $440.00 for other service that was due no matter what was purchased.
As far as stirring the pot, I am talking about notifing TV station, Newspapers, and other consumer agencies. I think I mentioned that in my original post.
$440.00 is much more than 3 cents. Of course I have been out of school for quite a few years. Maybe there is some "NEW" math I am not aware of.
I am no Columbo, and What can I report to the court. I dont even know the total story. I do know that there are always 2 sides to any story. I am not the type to accept "BLIND FAITH" I look at all information and if something does not seem correct, I will question it. Maybe the aftermarket wheels and tires, along with the the work performed to diagnose the scratching noise on the right front while driving, added up to the $2351.54.
"TallDarknFugly" showed these 3 peices of paperwork, but what about the original estimate that was turned into the insurance company.
Maybe there are only a small few of us that actually think for themselves and question things that dont make sense instead of just looking at the surface as presented. "BLIND FAITH"
ndx2 did not address the entry that the check was listed as $1038.83 and not $1400.00. Was the balance aplied to OTHER service charges such as Lab-Mechanical and other parts listed on the other invoice. Maybe thoses charges were submitted to the insurance company and was part of the check.
The original quote/estimate was not posted here to see what the charges actually were. Maybe they included $440.00 for other service that was due no matter what was purchased.
As far as stirring the pot, I am talking about notifing TV station, Newspapers, and other consumer agencies. I think I mentioned that in my original post.
$440.00 is much more than 3 cents. Of course I have been out of school for quite a few years. Maybe there is some "NEW" math I am not aware of.
I am no Columbo, and What can I report to the court. I dont even know the total story. I do know that there are always 2 sides to any story. I am not the type to accept "BLIND FAITH" I look at all information and if something does not seem correct, I will question it. Maybe the aftermarket wheels and tires, along with the the work performed to diagnose the scratching noise on the right front while driving, added up to the $2351.54.
"TallDarknFugly" showed these 3 peices of paperwork, but what about the original estimate that was turned into the insurance company.
Maybe there are only a small few of us that actually think for themselves and question things that dont make sense instead of just looking at the surface as presented. "BLIND FAITH"
Even the money they said I owed, they couldn't show the judge how they came up with the figure. The Judge herself had to pull out a calculatorr and try to figure it out for about 20mins to no avail. Till today, I don't know how they camne up with the digits.
I assure you I am not on the payroll of the dealership. Believe it or not I am not one of their book-keepers, cashiers or sales-persons. So I don't know how you expect me to know how they came up with the value of money I supposedly owe them.
Like I also said before, I never got to see the initial insurance estimate because I was never given it. I never signed it, never even saw it until-
At this point he tries threatening to sue me and said I signed the document giving them permission to fix the vehicle for $2400 while pointing at a document. I asked him to show me the signature and he flipped to the page where it was supposed to be only to realise they never did give me any documents so my signature wasnt there.
On the other hand, instead of poking holes thru the "story" look at the basic picture. Lets for a second ASSUME that their charges are justified in some manner. That I did owe them $2400, wouldn't it be common business practice to let the customer know before working on the vehicle? Wouldn't it be common business practise to have that reflect on the document below, instead of the value it reflects? I assume you knwo what the acronym C.O. D stands for. Cash On Delivery. Which means, I pay the amount specified, pick up my vehicle and we're done. NOT, I pay the amt specified and you bill me again.
As far as the screeching sound, that had nothing to do with the accident. That was a problem that I was having before the accident and they had worked on a couple of times at the other dealership. Duval Acura never did work on it or fix it. OP Acura eventually fixed it themselves.
I'm dying to hear your theory concerning the forged signature and doctored document.
10-15-2006, 05:37 PM
#62
Registered Member
To TallDarknFugly;
In all of this story and confusion I forgot something.
Thank you for your service to our country. And the same to you, JohnCollins. We should not forget this.
In all of this story and confusion I forgot something.
Thank you for your service to our country. And the same to you, JohnCollins. We should not forget this.
10-15-2006, 06:03 PM
#63
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I would make sure that Acura knows as well. I have pissed off a local ford dealership here in Houston, after I started the complaint process with dearborn office.
I would definitely make a complaint to the local law, may get you nowhwere but it sounds like more than a few laws were broken.
I would definitely make a complaint to the local law, may get you nowhwere but it sounds like more than a few laws were broken.
10-15-2006, 06:04 PM
#64
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I too am in the mil (navy) and have learned one thing involving companies and DFAS: THE COMPANY IS ALWAYS RIGHT, UNTILL PROVEN WRONG BY THE SERVICE MEMBER!!! You NEED to go talk to JAG and tell them your story so when the dealer garnshes your wages, you will have already told somebody about it that can help you. When they garnish your wages, you get no notice or chance to prove they are wrong before you start to lose money. I had a guy under me get his check garnshed by a payday loan company and he got no notice. It took 3 monthes to get it stopped and another 4 monthes to get back the overpayment they took from him. He was an E-3 and lost $350 a paycheck for those 3 monthes. It was obscene. Any company can get at your paycheck very fast and easy without you knowing if they do it 5 working days before your payday. A lot of them know this and wait so you will not have a chance to stop it. All they have to do is show something that says that you owe them money, charge an intrest rate from the date owed (up to the legal limit in the state) and sign a paper from DFAS. Do you think your dealer will blink at this? If JAG knows, then they can help you a lot eaiser if they start touching your paycheck. Good luck.
10-15-2006, 06:36 PM
#65
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Man you must feel like a CHAMP, you put there BS right up their A#S, you should sue them for all the misery they have put you trough and should propagand these news to Honda and they will be out of buisness, one thing for sure those 2 bastards will never ever find another job again..
Everyone should watch out for all dealers cus they are all thieves just not at the same level, remember that they want your moeny and will shove anything to your face to make you dish out on repairs or BS stuff to do on your car, just get the necessary done and change a part when you know it is actually ready for change and not just because they said so.
Take it easy
Everyone should watch out for all dealers cus they are all thieves just not at the same level, remember that they want your moeny and will shove anything to your face to make you dish out on repairs or BS stuff to do on your car, just get the necessary done and change a part when you know it is actually ready for change and not just because they said so.
Take it easy
10-15-2006, 07:17 PM
#66
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Tall,
I think my original comments and analysis have been taken the wrong way. I was trying tell you to be careful with any future actions. I appluded your efforts of not backing down.
I just wanted to bring up some items that did not add up. It you smear the dealership (weather justified or not), they will have a very good reason to take you back to court for slander, deformation of character, loss of business or whatever they cook up. I would think they will definetly have their high priced lawyers for that one. Would have the money to defend yourself.
I was only bringing up a couple of things that did not add up.
Did you submit the estimate to the insurance company, or did the dealership submit it?
If the dealership did, than maybe it included other charges that did not have to do with the cost of the tires, wheels, and labor to mount them. The insurance company may have been paying for other service not related directly to the tires and wheels. If thats the case, then the dealership allied that amount to the other service before the tires and wheels. If you did not sign the original estimate as you say, how did the insurance company get approval to fix the car and send the money. Someone OK'd it. They may have OK'd the other service.
Just because you paid the tire and wheel bill, may not mean the full charges where paid. The cashier may not have been aware of the other charges. I you get a paycheck and later found out that you were shorted, Does that mean you have no recourse to get what is due to you. I dont think so...... I know this is not quite the same, but its does sort of show how I am thinking.
You cleared up the difference in the check issue. That is great!
The following is just a "possible scenario" and is only to help figure out why there is a difference.
You tell me that the 3rd invoice C447700 was not at all related. Is there possibly that the charges on here were actually paid by the insurance company as part of the original estimate. Which would be deducted from the insurance check before the remaining was applied to the tires. Since you did not chose the first estimate, it does not mean that they are not due.
I am not trying to hold court. That is over.. I guess every judge is 100% correct in every judgement they make. As far as "blind faith" goes. That is one of the major problem with humanity. Blind faith in terrorist that they will have X amount of virgins if they perform suicide attacks. Blind Faith in cult followers. There are many example that blind faith is wrong and causes major problems and ignorance in humanity. People need to think for themselves.
Yes the dealership failed to prove there case, but that does not mean they were wrong. It just showed that they could not prove they were right.
Just to clarify a possible scenario.
Rounded figures because actual figures are not known.
2000.00 2 wheels & 3 tires based on most expensive OEM list price I could Find
400.00 Possible labor used to repair or maybe the cost for time to estimate
-------------
2400.00 Original estimate- Someone OKd it for the insurnace company to pay.
1979.45 Cost of aftermarket wheels, Tires, Mount, and lugkit.
400.00 Labor from above that MAY have been paid from insurance comapny.
------------
2379.45 Possible total bill due to dealership.
-1410.00 Insurance check less $1000. deductable
-------------
969.45 Due by customer
400.00 Cash
100.00 Credit Card
--------------
469.45 Still due.
I know the nubers dont match, but I dont know the actual numbers of the original estimate.
Again I am not trying to make ANYONE believe that money is still owed. All I am trying to do is make aware that all of the numbers are not known. "TallDarknFugly" did not see the original estimate submitted to the insurance so he does not know if there were other charges listed that were not directly associated with the cost of the tires and wheels. There MAY be other charges that came out of the check before the amount was applied to the $1979.45 bill. The person taking the payment MAY not have known about the other invoice and any amount applied to other charges.
Your story may be correct.
Your story may be missing some information that you dont know about.
There story may be correct, what ever there story may be.
They may just be trying to screw you.
Maybe there was just a paperwork error.
It does not matter. The court case is over. I was just trying to make you aware that slamming a dealership that may make them loose business may backfire if you dont have all of the information 100% correct. (you do not know what is on the original estimate....That could be a problem). I am not being a pessimist, I was originally trying to help someone from getting in over there head.
I really dont do well typeing in the forums. Sometimes things come out he wrong way at first. Then I need to defend myself in a way that was not intended. I am much better speaking due to tone and personality is much better projected.
Send me a private message and I will give you my toll free phone number and maybe I can explain myself better.
I wish you luck, and it sucks that it even happened at all.
I think my original comments and analysis have been taken the wrong way. I was trying tell you to be careful with any future actions. I appluded your efforts of not backing down.
I just wanted to bring up some items that did not add up. It you smear the dealership (weather justified or not), they will have a very good reason to take you back to court for slander, deformation of character, loss of business or whatever they cook up. I would think they will definetly have their high priced lawyers for that one. Would have the money to defend yourself.
I was only bringing up a couple of things that did not add up.
Did you submit the estimate to the insurance company, or did the dealership submit it?
If the dealership did, than maybe it included other charges that did not have to do with the cost of the tires, wheels, and labor to mount them. The insurance company may have been paying for other service not related directly to the tires and wheels. If thats the case, then the dealership allied that amount to the other service before the tires and wheels. If you did not sign the original estimate as you say, how did the insurance company get approval to fix the car and send the money. Someone OK'd it. They may have OK'd the other service.
Just because you paid the tire and wheel bill, may not mean the full charges where paid. The cashier may not have been aware of the other charges. I you get a paycheck and later found out that you were shorted, Does that mean you have no recourse to get what is due to you. I dont think so...... I know this is not quite the same, but its does sort of show how I am thinking.
You cleared up the difference in the check issue. That is great!
The following is just a "possible scenario" and is only to help figure out why there is a difference.
You tell me that the 3rd invoice C447700 was not at all related. Is there possibly that the charges on here were actually paid by the insurance company as part of the original estimate. Which would be deducted from the insurance check before the remaining was applied to the tires. Since you did not chose the first estimate, it does not mean that they are not due.
I am not trying to hold court. That is over.. I guess every judge is 100% correct in every judgement they make. As far as "blind faith" goes. That is one of the major problem with humanity. Blind faith in terrorist that they will have X amount of virgins if they perform suicide attacks. Blind Faith in cult followers. There are many example that blind faith is wrong and causes major problems and ignorance in humanity. People need to think for themselves.
Yes the dealership failed to prove there case, but that does not mean they were wrong. It just showed that they could not prove they were right.
Just to clarify a possible scenario.
Rounded figures because actual figures are not known.
2000.00 2 wheels & 3 tires based on most expensive OEM list price I could Find
400.00 Possible labor used to repair or maybe the cost for time to estimate
-------------
2400.00 Original estimate- Someone OKd it for the insurnace company to pay.
1979.45 Cost of aftermarket wheels, Tires, Mount, and lugkit.
400.00 Labor from above that MAY have been paid from insurance comapny.
------------
2379.45 Possible total bill due to dealership.
-1410.00 Insurance check less $1000. deductable
-------------
969.45 Due by customer
400.00 Cash
100.00 Credit Card
--------------
469.45 Still due.
I know the nubers dont match, but I dont know the actual numbers of the original estimate.
Again I am not trying to make ANYONE believe that money is still owed. All I am trying to do is make aware that all of the numbers are not known. "TallDarknFugly" did not see the original estimate submitted to the insurance so he does not know if there were other charges listed that were not directly associated with the cost of the tires and wheels. There MAY be other charges that came out of the check before the amount was applied to the $1979.45 bill. The person taking the payment MAY not have known about the other invoice and any amount applied to other charges.
Your story may be correct.
Your story may be missing some information that you dont know about.
There story may be correct, what ever there story may be.
They may just be trying to screw you.
Maybe there was just a paperwork error.
It does not matter. The court case is over. I was just trying to make you aware that slamming a dealership that may make them loose business may backfire if you dont have all of the information 100% correct. (you do not know what is on the original estimate....That could be a problem). I am not being a pessimist, I was originally trying to help someone from getting in over there head.
I really dont do well typeing in the forums. Sometimes things come out he wrong way at first. Then I need to defend myself in a way that was not intended. I am much better speaking due to tone and personality is much better projected.
Send me a private message and I will give you my toll free phone number and maybe I can explain myself better.
I wish you luck, and it sucks that it even happened at all.
10-15-2006, 07:42 PM
#67
WDP Director of R & D
Originally Posted by kart69
Send me a private message and I will give you my toll free phone number and maybe I can explain myself better.
Not sure if that would help...... He's probably busy enough talking to folks that can.
-TallDark Warrior, someone really needs to either go to jail and/or pay for the slander, forgery and down right fraud they "attempted".. Don't make this some form of personal vendetta but definitely ensure as many avenues as possible are used to inform the public of this dealerships insanity/blatant dishonesty. Everyone to include all Military installations should be highlighting the importance to stay away from "Duval".
Well done!
10-15-2006, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by kart69
Tall,
I think my original comments and analysis have been taken the wrong way. I was trying tell you to be careful with any future actions. I appluded your efforts of not backing down.
I just wanted to bring up some items that did not add up. It you smear the dealership (weather justified or not), they will have a very good reason to take you back to court for slander, deformation of character, loss of business or whatever they cook up. I would think they will definetly have their high priced lawyers for that one. Would have the money to defend yourself.
I was only bringing up a couple of things that did not add up.
Did you submit the estimate to the insurance company, or did the dealership submit it?
If the dealership did, than maybe it included other charges that did not have to do with the cost of the tires, wheels, and labor to mount them. The insurance company may have been paying for other service not related directly to the tires and wheels. If thats the case, then the dealership allied that amount to the other service before the tires and wheels. If you did not sign the original estimate as you say, how did the insurance company get approval to fix the car and send the money. Someone OK'd it. They may have OK'd the other service.
Just because you paid the tire and wheel bill, may not mean the full charges where paid. The cashier may not have been aware of the other charges. I you get a paycheck and later found out that you were shorted, Does that mean you have no recourse to get what is due to you. I dont think so...... I know this is not quite the same, but its does sort of show how I am thinking.
You cleared up the difference in the check issue. That is great!
The following is just a "possible scenario" and is only to help figure out why there is a difference.
You tell me that the 3rd invoice C447700 was not at all related. Is there possibly that the charges on here were actually paid by the insurance company as part of the original estimate. Which would be deducted from the insurance check before the remaining was applied to the tires. Since you did not chose the first estimate, it does not mean that they are not due.
I am not trying to hold court. That is over.. I guess every judge is 100% correct in every judgement they make. As far as "blind faith" goes. That is one of the major problem with humanity. Blind faith in terrorist that they will have X amount of virgins if they perform suicide attacks. Blind Faith in cult followers. There are many example that blind faith is wrong and causes major problems and ignorance in humanity. People need to think for themselves.
Yes the dealership failed to prove there case, but that does not mean they were wrong. It just showed that they could not prove they were right.
Just to clarify a possible scenario.
Rounded figures because actual figures are not known.
2000.00 2 wheels & 3 tires based on most expensive OEM list price I could Find
400.00 Possible labor used to repair or maybe the cost for time to estimate
-------------
2400.00 Original estimate- Someone OKd it for the insurnace company to pay.
1979.45 Cost of aftermarket wheels, Tires, Mount, and lugkit.
400.00 Labor from above that MAY have been paid from insurance comapny.
------------
2379.45 Possible total bill due to dealership.
-1410.00 Insurance check less $1000. deductable
-------------
969.45 Due by customer
400.00 Cash
100.00 Credit Card
--------------
469.45 Still due.
I know the nubers dont match, but I dont know the actual numbers of the original estimate.
Again I am not trying to make ANYONE believe that money is still owed. All I am trying to do is make aware that all of the numbers are not known. "TallDarknFugly" did not see the original estimate submitted to the insurance so he does not know if there were other charges listed that were not directly associated with the cost of the tires and wheels. There MAY be other charges that came out of the check before the amount was applied to the $1979.45 bill. The person taking the payment MAY not have known about the other invoice and any amount applied to other charges.
Your story may be correct.
Your story may be missing some information that you dont know about.
There story may be correct, what ever there story may be.
They may just be trying to screw you.
Maybe there was just a paperwork error.
It does not matter. The court case is over. I was just trying to make you aware that slamming a dealership that may make them loose business may backfire if you dont have all of the information 100% correct. (you do not know what is on the original estimate....That could be a problem). I am not being a pessimist, I was originally trying to help someone from getting in over there head.
I really dont do well typeing in the forums. Sometimes things come out he wrong way at first. Then I need to defend myself in a way that was not intended. I am much better speaking due to tone and personality is much better projected.
Send me a private message and I will give you my toll free phone number and maybe I can explain myself better.
I wish you luck, and it sucks that it even happened at all.
I think my original comments and analysis have been taken the wrong way. I was trying tell you to be careful with any future actions. I appluded your efforts of not backing down.
I just wanted to bring up some items that did not add up. It you smear the dealership (weather justified or not), they will have a very good reason to take you back to court for slander, deformation of character, loss of business or whatever they cook up. I would think they will definetly have their high priced lawyers for that one. Would have the money to defend yourself.
I was only bringing up a couple of things that did not add up.
Did you submit the estimate to the insurance company, or did the dealership submit it?
If the dealership did, than maybe it included other charges that did not have to do with the cost of the tires, wheels, and labor to mount them. The insurance company may have been paying for other service not related directly to the tires and wheels. If thats the case, then the dealership allied that amount to the other service before the tires and wheels. If you did not sign the original estimate as you say, how did the insurance company get approval to fix the car and send the money. Someone OK'd it. They may have OK'd the other service.
Just because you paid the tire and wheel bill, may not mean the full charges where paid. The cashier may not have been aware of the other charges. I you get a paycheck and later found out that you were shorted, Does that mean you have no recourse to get what is due to you. I dont think so...... I know this is not quite the same, but its does sort of show how I am thinking.
You cleared up the difference in the check issue. That is great!
The following is just a "possible scenario" and is only to help figure out why there is a difference.
You tell me that the 3rd invoice C447700 was not at all related. Is there possibly that the charges on here were actually paid by the insurance company as part of the original estimate. Which would be deducted from the insurance check before the remaining was applied to the tires. Since you did not chose the first estimate, it does not mean that they are not due.
I am not trying to hold court. That is over.. I guess every judge is 100% correct in every judgement they make. As far as "blind faith" goes. That is one of the major problem with humanity. Blind faith in terrorist that they will have X amount of virgins if they perform suicide attacks. Blind Faith in cult followers. There are many example that blind faith is wrong and causes major problems and ignorance in humanity. People need to think for themselves.
Yes the dealership failed to prove there case, but that does not mean they were wrong. It just showed that they could not prove they were right.
Just to clarify a possible scenario.
Rounded figures because actual figures are not known.
2000.00 2 wheels & 3 tires based on most expensive OEM list price I could Find
400.00 Possible labor used to repair or maybe the cost for time to estimate
-------------
2400.00 Original estimate- Someone OKd it for the insurnace company to pay.
1979.45 Cost of aftermarket wheels, Tires, Mount, and lugkit.
400.00 Labor from above that MAY have been paid from insurance comapny.
------------
2379.45 Possible total bill due to dealership.
-1410.00 Insurance check less $1000. deductable
-------------
969.45 Due by customer
400.00 Cash
100.00 Credit Card
--------------
469.45 Still due.
I know the nubers dont match, but I dont know the actual numbers of the original estimate.
Again I am not trying to make ANYONE believe that money is still owed. All I am trying to do is make aware that all of the numbers are not known. "TallDarknFugly" did not see the original estimate submitted to the insurance so he does not know if there were other charges listed that were not directly associated with the cost of the tires and wheels. There MAY be other charges that came out of the check before the amount was applied to the $1979.45 bill. The person taking the payment MAY not have known about the other invoice and any amount applied to other charges.
Your story may be correct.
Your story may be missing some information that you dont know about.
There story may be correct, what ever there story may be.
They may just be trying to screw you.
Maybe there was just a paperwork error.
It does not matter. The court case is over. I was just trying to make you aware that slamming a dealership that may make them loose business may backfire if you dont have all of the information 100% correct. (you do not know what is on the original estimate....That could be a problem). I am not being a pessimist, I was originally trying to help someone from getting in over there head.
I really dont do well typeing in the forums. Sometimes things come out he wrong way at first. Then I need to defend myself in a way that was not intended. I am much better speaking due to tone and personality is much better projected.
Send me a private message and I will give you my toll free phone number and maybe I can explain myself better.
I wish you luck, and it sucks that it even happened at all.
I have forced myself to understand where you're coming from and I'm responding from my most open-minded state. All what you calculate, even if it somehow makes sense. Does it matter?
So we give the dealership benefit of doubt and pretend that yes, there was some sort of miscalculation and I do owe them some money. In keeping with their reputation, no sensible protocol seems to have been followed. I've had an accident before, with same insurance company. So I have an idea what an estimate is supposed to look like with them. Their adjuster goes over the vehicle with a service rep while the service rep points out all the damages to be repaired. The service rep justifies the cost to the adjuster and gets an approval.
Before the adjuster even estimated the damages, I had voiced my opinion about not wanting to replace the messed up wheels/tires alone while leaving the "good" ones untouched. I would rather get brand new everything. That being said, when the estimate came thru for $2400 my mind was made up at the mere mention of the cost. No way I was paying that much for factory incomplete set, when I could get motegi's nextdoor in the same dealership installed, balanced, rotated, and labored on for $1975.
I asked the service rep if that was all it would cost and he said yes. Then I walked him down to the service rep and asked them BOTH if that was all I needed and will have to pay and they BOTH said yes. Then they gave me a C.O. D bill of $1975.
If they made some sort of mistake, I feel for them. But do I care? NO! There are ways to go about fixing mistakes as such IF it was a mistake. But u don't spring a bill on me and give me an ultimatum to pay up on the spot or u seize my car. And this is all in assumption that they made some sort of error.
So, now we've given them benefit of doubt at this time and assumed "Okay, they probably made a mistake." They only get a "Get out Of Jail Free" card once. What do we do when they doctor documents and forge signatures?
Honestly, at this point I dont even care if everything they had done prior was a mistake. What excuse can be attributed to the forgery? Document doctory?
Bottomline is, Peter and Paul had a $1975 contract between them. Peter did the job. Paul paid $1975. Finito! Rivestimento! Final! Finition!
If they screwed up on their paperwork, then "boohoo!". I dont like em anyway. But even if they did, any other business will at least try to explain to you and work something out. Noooooooooo! These guys were too good to. They want to call the cops, they awant to seize my car, strip my wheels off, call my insurance, accuse me of insurance fraud, Take me to court!
First was the Mediation hearing- Where I made it obvious they had no case. After which they called and offered to drop their suit if I pay up.
Court actually ended up being 2 different dates. It got adjourned the first day, but it was clear from the way things went that they had no case against me. You knwo what they did?
Called me up and offered me a deal. "Hey, we'll drop our case against you if you agree to drop your countersuit"
2nd Court Date: After court, they then threatened to come against me with "all they've got, and involve DFAS and my command"
They're clowns. Period! The sad thing is, I as an independent individual have shown way more class and civility than the dealership as a business entity who I've been dishing out my money to since last yr.
These guys dont even deserve any form of mercy/pity/whatsoever.
They were given more than enough opportunities to just leave me alone. They bothered me so much I had to send them a Cease and Desist letter! Then they bothered my insurance company so much they had to call me late in the evening to find out WTF was going on.- After I told them to quit harrasing my insurance company on account of me.
10-15-2006, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by DiveforTL-s
I too am in the mil (navy) and have learned one thing involving companies and DFAS: THE COMPANY IS ALWAYS RIGHT, UNTILL PROVEN WRONG BY THE SERVICE MEMBER!!! You NEED to go talk to JAG and tell them your story so when the dealer garnshes your wages, you will have already told somebody about it that can help you. When they garnish your wages, you get no notice or chance to prove they are wrong before you start to lose money. I had a guy under me get his check garnshed by a payday loan company and he got no notice. It took 3 monthes to get it stopped and another 4 monthes to get back the overpayment they took from him. He was an E-3 and lost $350 a paycheck for those 3 monthes. It was obscene. Any company can get at your paycheck very fast and easy without you knowing if they do it 5 working days before your payday. A lot of them know this and wait so you will not have a chance to stop it. All they have to do is show something that says that you owe them money, charge an intrest rate from the date owed (up to the legal limit in the state) and sign a paper from DFAS. Do you think your dealer will blink at this? If JAG knows, then they can help you a lot eaiser if they start touching your paycheck. Good luck.
@ Everybody thanks again for the kind words. Thanks SouthernBoy- It's been a pleasure
10-15-2006, 08:44 PM
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TallDarknFugly,
You are right. The forgery and harassment was way out of line, and accusing you of insurance fraud is crazy.
Can you post a photo of those new wheels and tires?
What size rims are they?
Also, Thanks to you and ALL of the US military personal on this site and everywhere around the world...... 
You are right. The forgery and harassment was way out of line, and accusing you of insurance fraud is crazy.
Can you post a photo of those new wheels and tires?
What size rims are they?
Also, Thanks to you and ALL of the US military personal on this site and everywhere around the world......
10-15-2006, 08:59 PM
#71
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Originally Posted by DiveforTL-s
Any company can get at your paycheck very fast and easy without you knowing if they do it 5 working days before your payday. A lot of them know this and wait so you will not have a chance to stop it. All they have to do is show something that says that you owe them money, charge an intrest rate from the date owed (up to the legal limit in the state) and sign a paper from DFAS. Do you think your dealer will blink at this? If JAG knows, then they can help you a lot eaiser if they start touching your paycheck. Good luck.
*
Tall - I would call the local DA and see if they would want to file criminal charges.
10-16-2006, 12:33 AM
#72
Mad props to ya talldarkn' make sure you keep your paperwork organized and sorted as it will help you in digging a deeper hole for the defendants(duvall acura) and establish your case since it will be the basis of your case going forward... ps man you should getta hold of speilberg or bruckheimer, this has the makings of a bigscreen flick!
10-16-2006, 05:03 AM
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hm.....are you going for a tort case? or are you going for a criminal case?
if you go for a tort case - you could win some money (punitive awards), you can then forward your case's results to some one high up in the acura company, and most likely they'll fire the wrongdoer.
if you go for a criminal case - you won't get anything from it, and lets just say you win. At most: someone will go to jail, get fired, and the company has to pay a fine to the government
so ya
if you go for a tort case - you could win some money (punitive awards), you can then forward your case's results to some one high up in the acura company, and most likely they'll fire the wrongdoer.
if you go for a criminal case - you won't get anything from it, and lets just say you win. At most: someone will go to jail, get fired, and the company has to pay a fine to the government
so ya
10-16-2006, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by SouthernBoy
There are three requirements to an contract agreement for it to be legal and binding: 1) It must be legal in nature; 2) All contracting parties, or their agent(s) must sign the agreement; 3) Consideration must be made.
Incidently, "Consideration" refers to something of value must pass between the parties, which is generally monetary in nature, as in a down payment.
JohnCollins mentioned something I forgot in my post. By contacting Acura about this incident and its possible illegality, there is the chance they might pull this dealer's franchise, especially if this gets into the press. That means you will have essentially put them out of business.
Incidently, "Consideration" refers to something of value must pass between the parties, which is generally monetary in nature, as in a down payment.
JohnCollins mentioned something I forgot in my post. By contacting Acura about this incident and its possible illegality, there is the chance they might pull this dealer's franchise, especially if this gets into the press. That means you will have essentially put them out of business.
Go look at the Texaco vs Pennzoil case... they lost $3 billion without a signed contract... the only thing signed was something of understanding.. but later they made the verbal contract which was upheld in court..
10-16-2006, 06:16 AM
#75
Originally Posted by Formula 350
You do not need a signature... there are plenty of contracts that are held up in court with only a verbal agreement...
Go look at the Texaco vs Pennzoil case... they lost $3 billion without a signed contract... the only thing signed was something of understanding.. but later they made the verbal contract which was upheld in court..
Go look at the Texaco vs Pennzoil case... they lost $3 billion without a signed contract... the only thing signed was something of understanding.. but later they made the verbal contract which was upheld in court..
If you have a written contract then you need to have all parties involved sign it.
10-16-2006, 06:16 AM
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Thanks for posting the check....
Yes, it is the $1400 you said... but they did right down the $1038 or whatever it was... glad you won..
And like others have said... thanks for protecting our country for us... many thanks..
Yes, it is the $1400 you said... but they did right down the $1038 or whatever it was... glad you won..
And like others have said... thanks for protecting our country for us... many thanks..
10-16-2006, 06:18 AM
#77
Originally Posted by playboyace35
hm.....are you going for a tort case? or are you going for a criminal case?
if you go for a tort case - you could win some money (punitive awards), you can then forward your case's results to some one high up in the acura company, and most likely they'll fire the wrongdoer.
if you go for a criminal case - you won't get anything from it, and lets just say you win. At most: someone will go to jail, get fired, and the company has to pay a fine to the government
so ya
if you go for a tort case - you could win some money (punitive awards), you can then forward your case's results to some one high up in the acura company, and most likely they'll fire the wrongdoer.
if you go for a criminal case - you won't get anything from it, and lets just say you win. At most: someone will go to jail, get fired, and the company has to pay a fine to the government
so ya
10-16-2006, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by playboyace35
hm.....are you going for a tort case? or are you going for a criminal case?
if you go for a tort case - you could win some money (punitive awards), you can then forward your case's results to some one high up in the acura company, and most likely they'll fire the wrongdoer.
if you go for a criminal case - you won't get anything from it, and lets just say you win. At most: someone will go to jail, get fired, and the company has to pay a fine to the government
so ya
if you go for a tort case - you could win some money (punitive awards), you can then forward your case's results to some one high up in the acura company, and most likely they'll fire the wrongdoer.
if you go for a criminal case - you won't get anything from it, and lets just say you win. At most: someone will go to jail, get fired, and the company has to pay a fine to the government
so ya
Anyway, at this point I'm thinking it may be impossible to take it back to court. But at the same time, it should be possible to take em back to court on the count of forgery since that evidence came up during the case and not before. So technically, they didnt get tried for the forgery, just slander and doctoring the other document.
Taking it to the DA and getting results would be good enough for me, but I've heard DA's may not push it. My thing is, I've neever been this pissed off at anyone in my life. I'm a chill, laid-back kinda guy and would nbever press for someone to get criminal charged, BUT just the mere fact that these guys tried to set me up on some insurance fraud crap makes me want to flip the script on them HARD.
I guess I'm at a point where I just may have to get some legal assistance but I don't hate these guys enough to spend my own hard earned money. At this point, criminal charges will do, alongside with a huge media exposure too. That will appease the demons within
10-16-2006, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by kart69
TallDarknFugly,
You are right. The forgery and harassment was way out of line, and accusing you of insurance fraud is crazy.
Can you post a photo of those new wheels and tires?
What size rims are they?
Also, Thanks to you and ALL of the US military personal on this site and everywhere around the world......
You are right. The forgery and harassment was way out of line, and accusing you of insurance fraud is crazy.
Can you post a photo of those new wheels and tires?
What size rims are they?
Also, Thanks to you and ALL of the US military personal on this site and everywhere around the world......
Nothing special on it. Only mod is the rims and if u count it, the navi screen hack.
Originally Posted by TallDarknFugly
Black and White......
Color......
Color......
10-16-2006, 07:22 AM
#80
These stories always scare the crap out of me. Not for myself...I am like TallDark Warrior...I am a pleasant guy until you back me into a corner and then I will rip your head off even if it involves ripping my arm off to do it.
But what worries me are those that don't defend themselves well and are easily taken advantage of. LIke the elderley. I can only imagine what would happen if someone like my mother had to take her car into a place like this. She would totally be taken for whatever cash they could squeeze out of her. That is why I have to always been involved in handling her bills. Because of scammers like these guys.
Tall...make their lives miserable. They deserve it.
What really confuses me though is how much effort they put into recovering $400??? How much time and money did it cost them to take you to court? Unbelievable!
But what worries me are those that don't defend themselves well and are easily taken advantage of. LIke the elderley. I can only imagine what would happen if someone like my mother had to take her car into a place like this. She would totally be taken for whatever cash they could squeeze out of her. That is why I have to always been involved in handling her bills. Because of scammers like these guys.
Tall...make their lives miserable. They deserve it.
What really confuses me though is how much effort they put into recovering $400??? How much time and money did it cost them to take you to court? Unbelievable!