phil

just had my first experience on snowy slick roads sat. night on il. 57 south . just about an inch and a half of slick packed snow ;some areas half the road was cleared i could feel the vsa kick in i believe as it was probably slowing down the wheels on the better pavement. is this what was occuring? it felt like i was about to slide all the the time until i figured out the car was trying to compensate for something. there were wrecks every where in a 30 mile stretch, bad ones cars in the ditches . i went from 40-50 mph and felt safe. i am riding on 245/40R-18 michelin pilot hx mxm4.

johnny--2k

it was actually slowing down the wheel on snow if it was spinning. VSA uses a combo of the brakes along with throttle cut off and yaw measurements (in the case of cornering) to limit wheel spin. Think of it as reverse ABS. When the wheel spins it pulses the brakes to stop the wheel(s) from spinning and help it regain traction. If you felt the car jerk to one side or the other (depending on where the snow was) then that was the VSA doing its job. The wheel on dry pavement was probably not affected by VSA as its speed remained constant with the actual vehicle speed, so thats probably why you felt the car pulling to one side.

srhewes

Be sure to check your rear tires -- with the factory alignment settings they wear out extremely fast. Driving in snowy conditions further exacerbates the problem.

JohnDoe2

When the VSA kicks in, it may mean you are driving too fast for current conditions. Don't get over confident and end up in a ditch. VSA can only do so much.

1nastytl8

I mounted the Toyo Snowproxes and now my Tl trucks thru the snow better than most Suv's on the road the difference is unbelievable.Bought rims and converted stock rims into winter rim it us the best way to go. Good Luck . Happy TLin.Rich Toronto Ont Canada

56Oval

Had a rental FX35 in northern Idaho yesterday on snowy/icy roads.

I was messing around in an icy parking lot and turned off the VSA to check out the difference.

WOW! When off it was a piece of cake to do fishtail and slide all over. With it on, it really stabilized the car and you could feel it reducing power to stop it from spinning the tires.

johnny--2k

This is incorrect. VSA is not a speed monitoring device. It cant tell what the conditions are on the road. It could be working at 5MPH or 50MPH, so speed has nothing to do with VSA working. It means the wheels are either spinning freely or the car is not traveling on its intended path (over/under steer)

Mike_TX

Uhh ... think about it: he's just saying that if the VSA is kicking in a lot, the driver is probably driving faster than he should for the conditions. Otherwise, the VSA wouldn't NEED to be cutting in so much. You can definitely make the VSA kick in a lot by just hotshoeing it on ice or slippery roads, but that doesn't mean it's safe - or prudent - to do that.

mio

When the VSA kicks in, u can see the yellow VSA light flashs~

johnny--2k

What Im saying is it doesnt matter how fast he is going. It just means the tires are losing grip wether hes going 5MPH or 100MPH. Going 10MPH on a snowy road and VSA working and doing its job doenst mean he's going too fast. It means he needs to get his led foot off the gas pedal and let the wheels get some traction.

Actuary

I have a feeling VSA is already activated even before light flashes. Over last two weeks, I had VSA kicking in every single start from red light and every single corner. I felt VSA light came on only in severe loss of traction.

Also, in the most severe loss of traction(under,over steer) you can definitely feel one of rear wheel braking.

Dumont

Today was the first time I drove my 05 AT in the snow.

I have driven several FWD and RWD cars in the snow before (all without VSA/TC) and definitely driving the TL I felt much more in control than previous cars. I definitely feel I could have driven faster than the traffic around me but knowing that driving is one thing and stopping is another I held back.

I did feel that starting moving on a snowy road even only with a small incline is not very easy. At the first intersection, a block away from my home, where there is a very very small slope I got stuck for a minute at the stop sign. With the VSA on and in regular auto the wheels wouldn't slip but the car wouldn't go anywhere. With the VSA off and in low I was able to proceed, but only if I made a turn, going straight the wheels would just spin.

I guess the best thing would be is to put snows on but since my commute doesn't include any hilly areas and I don't go skiing so I think I'll survive without them. I've never put snows on any of my cars. Only the RWD (my Merkur XR4ti) had studded tires but I only used them because they came with the car.

Dumont
www.pbase.com/dumont

KJW73

Woke up this morning to 9-inches of snow in Harrisburg PA.......
Got up at 5am to shovel the drive way and walkways around the house, clean off the cars, etc.... (well, I won't lie - my b/f did most of the work! )....and thought that I'd be heading to work at the usual time....

Hahahahaha.....didn't even happen. I packed up and headed up the snow-filled street - even made it past some jerk parked in the middle of our neighborhood road having his kids clean the touring van off, forcing me to drive into unchartered snow....anyway....made it to the stop sign where I needed to turn right...couldn't make it (even without stopping, giving myself a head start). However - at the time, I didn't think to turn off the traction control so that I could spin and go...

Had to go back home for another 3 hours and waited patiently for our municipal snow plows to never come....our neighborhood seems to always be last on the list. To make a long boring story short - about 12:00noon I said "F*&% it" and I went for it again. Followed SUV tracks up the street and did fine...until I got to the stop sign again....got stuck - again. Until I let myself slide into a neighbors yard where I saw wet pavement that I could grip - then I made it.

All I have to say (because I could go on and on) is that by the time I made it downtown to my office building, my knees were shaking and I was not happy! I was scared as shit!!! Thankfully, I had an Ativan to take once at work to calm me down. I think my 04 Accord Coupe (which was also manual; HUGE DIFFERENCE IMO), which was lighter, did better in the snow than my TL.

Oh well - I'm sure this is just the beginning of the snow for the winter, so I had better learn how to drive the TL in snow, I guess?

Toodles.
PS: I feel much better now having vented!

ndx2

If the VSA is kicking in WHILE you're moving, i.e. driving on the freeway, that means you ARE driving too fast for the condition. Of course, downshifting and flooring in the snow/ice would make you lose traction, but that's just retarded and we're not talking about that.


Anyway, I just drove through some terrible roads (just came home to MI, driving through Colorado, Nebraska, Iowa, Illinois, and Indiana - there was snow and ice EVERYWHERE), and I'll tell ya, don't give the VSA too much credit. It was only helpful in some city driving, but not much at all on the highway (although I was only doing 30-40~).

I felt my tail trying to break loose, but the VSA wasn't kicking in, and all I could do to keep the car on the road was left off the gas and slowly reduce speed. What's worse, I would slightly gas the car, and the VSA would kick in, and as soon as I let off the gas, the VSA would abruptly cut off, and jerk the car.

From a complete stop, the VSA cut off too much power, and I would just stand still... had to shut it off and spin the tires a bit to get out of the snow. Mind you, this is in quite a bit of snow, not just a thin layer.

Granted, I blame most of this on the shitty EL42's. Whenever I went over a bridge/overpass/underpass and I spotted ice, I would pray to god I make it over without spinning out... my TL would literally slide for a second, slightly to the side with the rear wanting to fish tail... the VSA never kicked in.

I'll probably start a thread regarding this topic, with some pics I took of the conditions I was driving in...

johnny--2k

well than anyone driving their vehicle in snow is going too fast for conditions. What you are saying is that if VSA kicks in while you are stopped (impossible) then you are driving the right speed for conditions which makes no sense. Of course its supposed to work while you are moving, otherwise what else is it there for?

GUMP

Also woke up to 8 inches of snow this morning..why don't more people do what I did...wait until the snow stops and give it time to be plowed! I was on the roads by 11am and had no problems, even on the death of trap of 422. VSA kicked in once as I hit an unplowed spot..no problems.

ndx2

I wasn't clear before... my bad. What I meant was that if the VSA kicks in constantly while driving, you're going too fast for the condition.

For example, I was driving 30-40 mph in the snow on I-80, without the VSA kicking in. I sped up to about 50 mph in the same condition, same road, and the VSA would kick in every other second.

Pro Stock John

To be honest, anyone on 235/245 17" tires dreads snow. You should see the RWD 5 and 7 series BMW's around me, they are as bad as my old 92 Mustang GT.

Blame the tire width, not the car. The tires are so wide that it's hard to get the car moving in deep snow because the tires don't cut through very well.

When you are on the highway, going 40-50 mph in a snow storm, and the vsa light is coming on, you should slow down a bit. It sux but the car is sliding, so take precautions. I have already driving in two snow storms on I90 going to MI. Both trips normally take 3 hours, they took 6.

johnny--2k

That is understandable, but anyone going more than 40-45MPH in snowy conditions deserves to get stuck in a ditch somewhere, 4WD or not!

Thats just plain stupidity!

avs007

Not sure if this will work in the TL, (We got our TL in the spring, so it hasn't seen winter yet).

But in our other car, if you put it in Manual Mode, and hit "+" while you are stopped, you can start from 2nd gear. Much less likely to spin the tires that way it seems. (To me anyways)

Actuary

Person above : That works in TL, I never had to use it even in Canada here.

I'm not afraid on snow at all doing 50. I just look careful at ICE. no matter which tire you have on ICE, car will spin at corner even with VSA.

Stock MXM4 All-Season is holding very well. VSA kicks in every stop but that's acceptable. Car eventually gets grip and moves forward in snow.

My only concern is..... MY TL seems to be unstable for some reason. Car wants to fishtail on STRAIGHT city road with steering wheel straight. As a driver, I can feel my tail going left to right at 30MPH. I'm like WHAt the Hell? my mustang didn't do this to me.

Tecciztecatl

What are you talking about?!? If you have snow tires and have experience driving in the snow then those speeds are fully acceptable ... if you cannot drive at those speeds then please stay in the right lane.



It also depends what vehicle you are driving of course - and a 4x4 makes a huge difference, when equipped with the proper tires of course.



My TL has the Dunlop M3s for winter and it is very stable at the posted speeds on snow covered roads up to about 2”.



Hell, my old 77’ F-150 4x4 with 33” all-terrains would motor on the snow no problemo!

A_UFO

Have you looked at your rear tires for abnormal wear on either the inside or outside of the tire treads?

It sounds like the alignment for the rear is not correct. When was the last time you had the tires rotated and an alignment performed on the car?

Just a thought.

ndx2

Improper alignment could cause that, but it's more likely that the tire pressure is off.

Coming down from high altitude, my tire pressure was all outta whack by the time I was driving in Iowa. The rear seemed to be very unstable/wobbly, and I checked the tire pressure at a rest area and they were off. After driving another 50 miles in search of a gas station with air compressor, I finally corrected it and it made a huge, almost unbelievable difference.

But Actuary - it's funny that you say the MXM4's are holding up "very well," yet you can feel the rear wanting to fishtail at 30 mph...meaning they're losing grip... a bit contradictory, no?

Actuary

Well it doesnt look like grip is the issue.

Its funny fishtailing happens without throttle on a STRAIGHT city road without any irregularity. VSA does not kick in.

Mine is at 10,000miles right now i got tire rotated at A1 service around 6000miles.
Oh by the way I can only feel it when there's someone sitting in back seat.

johnny--2k

I am perfectly fine with those speeds. 4X4's are better in the snow, I'm talking about the majority of idiots that drive them and dont know how to handle them in the snow, along with drivers in general. I have had plenty of experience driving in snow from 4X4's to my S2000, and 50 in the snow is no biggie for me. Im referring to others out there that cant drive when snow hits the ground. They turn into morons for some reason, and act as if nothing is different than an 80* summer day.

As for snowy conditions, Im talking a good snow storm with 4-6 inches of snow on the ground. 2 inches of snow is not even worth blinking at.

Tecciztecatl

I hear ya ... I love the soccer moms in their SUVs that all of a sudden can't drive when there is a dusting?!? And you are right, morons is the word for it!

I actually just put my winter tires on today, so bring it on!!!