flatfoot

There is an article in augusts consumer reports page 49 about a known sludge problem destroying certain makes of engines. Particularly in some toyotas/lexux,aud/vw, saab, chrsyler ,dodge.
It says it is destroying these engines, no matter how well you maintain your car. Take a look..

One thing the article mentioned was that to prevent this, you could always go to a synthetic.

Well even though honda/acura is not on the list at all, I think at my first oil change , I will be going to synthetic as a change.

QUESTION, when I go to acura for my first servicing, will they put in synthetic oil is requested, or is that something you have to do on your own?

Thanks flatfoot

Tennisjon2002

yea I jsut saw that article earlier. At the dealer I believe if you ask them to use synthetic they will, just be prepared to pay more.

Brettg

Its a problem on hot running engines with low oil capacity, running extended
oil change intervals.
The VW 1.8T engine used in the Passat is a problem, very common to have sludge
problems, because it only holds around 4 quarts and is a turbo motor.

On hot running motors like that, you can do fine with dino oil but need to change
the oil every 3000 miles or so, not the 5000 mile recomendation.

Or, you can run synthetic till 5000 or more miles.

Its not really sludge, you dont really see that any more, its coking of the oil,
it looks just like coffee grounds in the oil.
We once forgot to change the oil in my wifes taurus
(24 valve duratech motor) and I found the coffee grounds in the oil.
I thought something black plastic had been ground up inside the motor,
like the cam chain guides.
I took the valve covers off and it had white plastic guides.....not black.

Modern motors all run hotter to reduce emissions, 190F or higher
coolant temps, much higher oil temps and hot spots inside the motor.

With my new TL, 5000 mile oil change intervals will be as long as I go.

I may run dino oil till 10,000 miles to break things in, then go to
synthetic oil, or, just change the dino at 4000 to 5000 miles.

I have been reading the oil info here, and will change the factory fill at 2500 miles
and use the havoline 5w20.
I dont think acura's recomendation to leave the original oil in till
the computer tells you to change it is in the owners best interest if
they plan on getting 200,000 miles out of the engine...


Brett

crazymjb

For the TL we will use Mobil 1 after the factory oil is replaced. It is about 5 bucks a quart but you can also comfortable go by the MID when using it, as it claims to last until 15k miles, and you will be putting about 7500 on it MAX.

SodaLuvr

I agree with Brettg's points about the causes of sludge in the Passat 1.8T: Small sump, high temperatures, and the turbos that really "kill" the oil.

I would not run any PCMO conventional oil in any turbo. Too much shearing will occur in addition to much deposit buildup, even within a short 3000 mi. service interval. The only conventional that I'd run in a turbo is a HDEO, such as Delo 400 15w-40, Shell Rotella T 15w-40, or Mobil Delvac 1300s 15w-40. All three are ideal candidates for usage during an Auto-RX rinse cycle.

In addition, I'd keep service intervals on the 1.8T engines at 5,000 miles or less, even with the VW 502.00 approved Mobil 1 0w-40 because of warranty issues, since this engine is quite a problem child.

Brett, I also suggest running dino until 10,000 miles simply because extended drains are a when the engine has less than 10,000 miles. Until the engine has more than 10,000 miles, it is not broken-in and will generate more wear metals, thus making it not an ideal situation for extended drains. If you really wish to use synthetic in an engine before 10,000 miles, there is no harm as long as you wait at least 1500 miles. In addition, Acura's onboard OLM is an excellent device. Leaving the factory fill in your car for more than 5,000 miles won't cause any long-term damage, it's just simply unnecessary.

BTW, regardless of what oil is used, synthetic or conventional, deposits will buildup over time and you will need to perform some cleaning with Auto-RX. Usage of Lube Control will slow the deposit buildup, but over the course of the engine's life, some buildup will occur.

Lastly crazymjb, unless you plan on doing drains of 8-10K, use Mobil 1 5w-20...I don't see why you would want to use a 30wt.

Michael

SodaLuvr

BTW, I recently spoke with another TL owner, Tight TL, and about his family's 01 ( think) Passat. It used dealer dino at 5,000 mile service intervals, possibly with lots of city driving, for the first 20-30K of its life, and currently runs LE Monolec 10w-30 at 5,000 mile service intervals. Car has 49,000 miles, currently.

I told him to Auto-RX the Passat, and start using Mobil 1 0w-40 with LC at 5,000 mile service intervals until the warranty runs out, and change the PCV valve. The dealer dino that was used during the earlier part of this engine's life probably caused lot of buildup, considering the type of service it was used for, along with the 5000 mi service interval on dino oil in a turbo with a small sump.

The Auto-RX will clean up the sludge and deposits that have been accumulated, and the Mobil 1 0w-40/LC will do a better job in terms of protection and engine cleanliness.

Just wanted to pass that along,
Michael

Road Rage

The sludging in the Toyotas is the result of over-extended oil, and something no one has mentioned - very small oil galley ports. Like clogged arteries in a human body, they "choke off" the living blood of the engine - the oil - and can cause it to run too hot, because the oil velocity through the engine is compromised.

Michael has provided some good background info, but also consider that LE 8130 has the highest TFOUT performance I have ever seen - to remind you, TFOUT is a severe and excellent predictor of an oil's ability to resist oxidation, the precursor of sludge. Many "quality" names fail to pass a TFOUT test. See my previous postings on the subject in the "RR Journals" - I believe I put it on one of the LE accounts.

I am using Havoline in my TL, with 5K changes, and also using Lube Control.

SodaLuvr

RR,
The LC that you're using resist oxidation very well, don't forget that.

Another reason for the sludging in these Toyo 3L V6 engines is because of the small sump, as well as the fact that this engine runs very hot. The usage of 91 octane (sometimes 89 w/FP delivers the same effect) will allow this engine to run a bit cooler and lower the nitration levels found in oil analysis. In addition, this engine tends to be VERY hard on oil, and has even sheared Amsoil Series 2000 0w-30, which is very rare.

Michael

ndabunka

Prior to our current GX470, we owned a 2000 model RX-300 which had the potential to have developed this problem. Seems that this was a pretty well known issue with some 2000-model (and older) RX300's. Sincxe we found the issue before we bought the car, we decided that we would only buy a certified pre-owned one so that the issue would be Lexus's rather than ours. We had no problems with our RX300 and sold it last December when we got the new GX. So, in regards to the Toyota's... Isn't this OLD (4+ years) news or did the article say they were still having issues currently?

SodaLuvr

Any Toyo 3L V6 and 2.2L 4-cyl prior to 2002 had this issue.

Michael

nick04tl

when i worked for toyota i had to rebuild some sludge engines. i dont remember any of them being serviced regularly. it seemed like everyone was a customer that changed their oil once or twice a year regardless of mileage.

nick04tl

old news

03CoupeV6

It really, really surprises me to see the 5S-FE four-cylinder on this list.