DavidNJ

And yes I know this is a biased audience.

We've looked at everything from a Toyota Prius to a Lexus LS430. And it is down to two options: Buying our '01 BMW 530 at lease end or buying a TL with Nav. In Consumer Reports one is the highest rated 'upscale sedan' and the other is the highest rated car ever.

Now if we didn't have the BMW we wouldn't buy a 45k car used. But we do. It is well equiped: navigation, xenon lights, heated seats and steering wheel, voice activated phone (non-Bluetooth), fold-down rear seat, park distance sensor front and rear, etc.

Compared to the TL it has these features: a significantly thicker leather, real wood all over the place, a sport mode on the 5-speed auto that delays downshifts and raises the shift points, DSP sound system (reverb on non-DVD-A discs), automatic recirculation on the ventilation when smog is detected (a big advantage in traffic around the Holland Tunnel), a separate temperature adjustment for the upper dash vents (you can have cooler air at your face while the hot air is sent to your feet), the fold down seat, the heated steering wheel, the front park distance sensors. A BMW certified warranty to 100,000 miles costs $1000, but doesn't cover the nav, audio, or phone. And it is a nice medium blue that my wife loves (it is her car).

Hey, if it so great why am I here? Although rattle free and quiet, it has been less than reliable. 12 service visits in the last 12 months. If we had not had the loaner the car would have 2k more miles! We recently lost the phone. Apparently Motorola no longer makes it and BMW is nearly out. We found a refurbished on for $450. Ouch! And what happens in a year? Finally, next to a new car it’s beginning to seem worn. Another 40k miles won't make it any better.

The TL is the only car (other than the LS430) that matches or comes close to matching the 530's poise and balance. Its motor is smooth and refined to the redline. The interior is beautifully detailed. The electronics is leading edge, if a little incomplete (MP3, WMA, SACD, some form of DSP reverb with stereo, phone number touchpad).

Is this a good alternative? Does anyone have both? Or traded the 530 for 525?

Your opinions are desperately needed!!!

Thanks,

David

P.S.
Has anyone had a problem with their TL's suspension not having enough travel, either bottoming or topping out, especially over undulating pavement?

greenseed

DavidNJ

I'll take a stab at your request.

I have neither vehicle at the moment, although my TL is on order. It sounds as if you’re trying to convince yourself to keep the 530 with your heart because you love it. But logically you know it doesn’t make sense.

I'm sure you receive many comments both ways, but in the end my bet is on the Logical decision.

Personally if it were me, I'd ditch that BMW before it becomes a permanent fixture on a hydraulic lift @ your local shop. The TL is way cheaper than a similarly equipped BMW (3XX series) and in my opinion provides about 95% of the driving satisfaction in compared to a BMW. All the while providing 110% of satisfaction everywhere else.

The lexus isnt a bad car either, but I guess in the end it all boils down to choice.

Just my 2 cents worth.

njtls

wow....that bmw sounds nice...i want one

Motavar

I lease cars for the simple reason that I get sick of having the same car for more then 3 years and I do not like having an old car. I say you go for it.

Plus.. if you wanted to save money and go commuter car forget about it. The prius has a 8-10 month wait to get one.

danno

Why continue to have a car that has problems? I don`t know what your buyout figure is compared to buying/ leasing the TL, but I faced a similar problem. Deceiding to lease a used 01 or 02 540 6- speed or NEW TL? I know it`s YOUR miles put on the Beamer, why buy a USED car with alot more miles on it than a new TL? Also, the body style of the Beamer is "outdated", especially after a couple more years of driving. IMHO

DavidNJ

Thanks for your replies.

Although the car has been in and out of service, it is still rock solid and drives and rides better than the TL. It is also rattle free, a claim at least on 512mi old TL we've driven can't make.

It took a deep look down memory lane (we-ve had 5-series BMWs since 1998), however those features missing on the Acura were greatly appreciated when we first got them.

If we buy the car and shop again in 1-2 years we will find: a new Lexus GS, new Acura RL, updated TL electronics and greater Nav availability (with bigger discounts), new Infiniti M45, updated MB C-series, new BMW 3-series, new Passat, wide availability of Bluetooth, etc. One argument is that we could always buy the Acura, but once the BMW is gone it is gone.

We have a no deposit order on a Prius in place. Expected June availability. Possibly earlier. And possibly later. On a retrospective analysis, I can't see any reason to get a Prius over the TL. So it is TL vs. current car.

We lease for four reasons:
-guaranteed resale value,
-residulation of options (not a problem with the Acura),
-low cost of miles (typically 15 cents up front on the lease vs. .30-.35 cents on a trade-in),
-no loss of resale value after an accident.

All are relevant on the BMW. On the Acura, the lower price makes them less important and the less attractive lease terms even more so.

danno

Not trying to talk you out of the Beamer, but what do you think you would get after having the car a few more years, I bet not much compaired to what you think you`ll get. I had a 99 M3 Convt. before the TL, and I couldn`t beleive what I settled for. The car was better than new with LOW miles on it. Dealers don`t give you any more money on a lower mint car than an average condition car when looking book value. I know, I love the Beamers too, but in the long run, it made more sense to update.

¿GotJazz?

David, the reasons that you mentioned are the very reasons I am now becoming an 04TL owner.

I recently owned a '99 BMW323i convertible. It was a very fun car to drive - the suspension, steering, engine, clutch - just a dream come true!

However, my situation was similar ... 13 maintenance visits in one year. I thought I had a lemon. What finally did it for me was having a discussion with an ex-BMW mechanic. He looks at the car for a second, and says, "Hmmmm. 1999 323i. Had a problem with the seat retractors? How about the convertible roof getting stuck? What about ... etc."

In about 1 minute, he listed everything that I experienced. At this point, I had an epiphany. "I don't have a lemon, BMW had a lousy design!".

I have begun to suspect, and I have confirmed to some level, that some (not all - some of the BMWs are truly designed well) BMW owners have a "blind spot" when it comes to their cars. The car is just so excellent in a lot of ways, that you forget about or minimize the repairs being done and shrug it off as normal repairs.

Sometimes, it's funny talking to some BMW owners. "I've never had a problem with my car". Then you mention how you've had a problem with trim pieces falling off, and then they say, "Oh, I had to take it in for that, too.".

Also, I got really tired of dealing with the "stuck-up" attitude of all the dealerships in town.

Anyways, I did some serious thinking. Based on past history, the BMW sure looked like it was going to be a major inconvenience, and extremely expensive to own for the long haul. I didn't want to deal with that - I bought the BMW because my friends told me how reliable they are. I now know better. I tend to buy good cars and hold on to them 'til they die. I didn't want to hold on to this one after the warranty ran out.

So, I sold it to someone else before the warranty ran out. Hopefully, the car has been perfect for them.

Another thing. The supposedly "easy to resell" pre-owned BMW sure wasn't the case for my car. It took over 5 months, and I had to drop the price about $6.000 before it sold. Just because the cars are listed for a certain price on autotrader.com, that isn't necessarily what you're going to get.

BTW, buying your leased car is not usually a good idea. That is the most expensive way to buy a car, unless you're paying cash at the end or have totally free financing. Car dealearships love reselling you your leased car - you can pay them interest for 7 (or more) years before you actually own the car.

I've been missing the driving experience that the BMW gave me. I started shopping a couple of months ago. I found the 04TL, and fell in love. It may not be 100% of the driving experience that the BMW provided, but that's OK. It gets me 95%+ of the handling & suspension, and a 500% better cockpit than the 323 that I owned.

Actually, I think the 04TL does it even better. With the "drive-by-wire", the car seems to read your mind. I find it a bit eerie. The 5AT changes the shift points & downshift by gauging the current speed and by how aggressively you are pressing the accelerator.

My advice (obviously) is to go for the 04TL. I don't think that you'll be disappointed.

¿GotJazz?

DavidNJ

The cost of the BMW with tax and tags is $30k (with 100k warranty), the Acura TL with Nav $37k.(with 100k mi warranty). I expect the BMW to be worth $15k +/-$2k after 2 years. I expect the TL (@20k mi/yr) to be worth $22k after 2 and $17k after three years. With the low cost of money (1% in my savings account) capital cost for either car is about $300/year.

That is $8800/yr for the BMW, $7800/yr for the TL for 2 years, $6800/yr for three years, and maybe $6300/yr for 4 years.

gregory28

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DavidNJ
nice medium blue that my wife loves (it is her car).

Hey, if it so great why am I here? Although rattle free and quiet, it has been less than reliable. 12 service visits in the last 12 months. If we had not had the loaner the car would have 2k more miles! We recently lost the phone. Apparently Motorola no longer makes it and BMW is nearly out. We found a refurbished on for $450. Ouch! And what happens in a year? Finally, next to a new car it’s beginning to seem worn. Another 40k miles won't make it any better.


I just ditched a problem Volvo that I owned in favor of the TL. My wife loved the Volvo and it had a more spacious trunk and more cushier ride which she liked. It was a service nightmare and was considered a "lime" because of all the problems. 12 service visits in 12 months? That car sounds like a lime to me, why would you buy a trouble car knowingly. The service issues won't get any better.

jyg tl 3

on fence about tl. I've driven four tl6mt I find the torque steer is very noticable. Also the tire problems have convinced be to wait, But you are paying too much for your used 530. and as it gets older it will cost,. example my car is now nine days out of warranty and guess what I have air bag warning light . who know what's wrong, and what it will cost. If you car is CPO many of those future problems will cost yo only $50 a shot. Also the five is probably the nicest car BMW has ever made. My car is not leased. Its worth $22500 and four years old. So check you r
math again, Tl is nice but first year bugs
are a problem. A bmw 5 is nice, all the bmw handling , and lack or relaibilty .

jdone

Twelve service visits in twelve months isn't that rare for a BMW. In the four years I owned mine I had 46 service visits, so about 11 visits every 12 mos.. A BMW is a great car to drive but too many of my trips were back to the dealer!

¿GotJazz?

jyg tl 3 -

After reading about the first-year "bugs", I'm more impressed with 04TL. I haven't found a major one yet.

Other manufacturers would be pretty happy to see the minor stuff being posted on here.

My opinion, of course.

¿GotJazz?

VTEC=happiness

David

I'm not quite sure what kind of a car you are looking for if you have considered everything from a Prius to and LS430. The variation in price point and type of car is so great that I feel you have no real idea about what you want. If I could afford the LS, I think I would do that...then again, if you could afford the LS, you certainly could get a new 5 series and have all of the virtues (and drawbacks) of your current car in a package w/o 40K miles.

For me, my price range and the type of car I was looking for was more specific before I started looking at the TL. I think that if I had a budget that went into the $50-60K range (the LS 430), there would be a lot of cars other than the TL I would have looked at. In my case, I wanted to stay below $40K, and I got the best possible car in that range. I think you will be really happy with the TL, but when comparing it to other cars that are way more expensive that the Acura, I feel you may never be fully satisfied with your decision. I couldn't be happier with the TL, but my guess is that it is no 5 series in terms of refinement and luxury.

End rant.

ndabunka

You've got a major problem with your '01 Beemer that you may not even realize....The body type is the "old style". This means that the car will be worth SIGNIFICCANTLY less in a year or two. I should know as I had a used '97 740iL and LOVED the car. Paid $35K for it with 35K miles. Drove it two and a half years and the MOST I was able to get (private party sale) was $16K. With the new 5-series body style, yours will loose 1/2 it's value in just over 2 years. The other reason I sold mine was that I had just gotten over 100K and other people with that car were talling me of $3K air conditioner replacements...

danno

You`ve heard from some good expirienced posts,but in the end.....ITS YOUR CALL!!

Z Factor

Reading through the different threads you will see why we believe the TL is the best choice in it's class.

So the answer is yes get one

DavidNJ

We went threw everything ended up with the TL as the only viable contender. We require (are accustomed to and don't want to give up) navigation and an integrated phone. So that eliminated Volvos, Audis, VWs, CTS off the bat. LS430, XJ8 was too big for my wife. New 5-series has a Hyundai interior with iDrive, an unbelieveably poorly designed interface for nav, phone, audioo, and climate control. The TL was better than the E-series in a back-to-back test we made. GS Lexus is about to be replaced and is missing features. G35 is unrefined IOHO; wife said no way. 3-series BMW is too small; trunk is tiny with navigation istalled. 3-series wagon only has small 184hp motor.

Note: unending series of junk cars (7, 5, Z4, X3, etc) probably puts BMW in a position to be moved to a second/third tier company and an acquistion target (GM, Toyota, Ford, Renault?).

Thanks for all the responses...we are still on the fence...my wife is reading the posts now...

VTEC=happiness

Well...it seems you have narrowed it down much more than I realized. I think everything you have said is right on, and that the TL appears to be the viable contender. Good luck...

manteuffel

Get the TL. You will love it.

G.