Repecat

Thanks for the education. Points to you. I anxiously await Chapter III.

synoil

I also use Amsoil filtes, they have the best if not darn close best clearance #'s out there.
However, I'm also looking at whatever filter does the best job.. Not only for the short term
but the longer term. Remember these are full flow filters.
Craig

Road Rage

I wouldn't go postal and change out early, unless you are racing - and again, I am not condemning Amsoil, Baldwin, or even the Champion filters (Mobil, STP). It is the uncertainty of their specs as applied to the TL that makes me uncertain about giving a recommendation. I much prefer to err on the side of being too careful than make a rec based on an uneducated opinion, as there are any number of Internet "experts" capable of doing that. But they have no accountability - neither do I for that matter, other than my personal ethics and my Net reputation, both of which mean something to me.

Road Rage

Well, we agree on everything else, and not to belabor a point, but this is what I found on dictionary.com
me·di·um ( P ) Pronunciation Key (md-m)
n. pl. me·di·a (-d-) or me·di·ums
An intervening substance through which something else is transmitted or carried on.

Is it possible that in your line of business, different usages are employed?

In my field (Information Technology engineering), datum and data have become bastardized to the point where I have found it easier to surrender, and say "the data is available" rather than "the data are available".
************************************************** ********************
P.S. The next time any of you is (not are) in AutoZone, look at a Mobil1 filter, then an STP filter of the same dimensions. Other than the case steel thickness which favors Mobil's filter, they appear to be identical, other than in price. Both are made by Champion, and use quality glass fiber based media (medium? mediums?). Their flow rates are unknown.
************************************************** ************************
rontatuaf: What is your professional opinion about the relative danger from wear of different particles sizes? Our engineering posture has been that super small (<10 micron) particles represent little danger, and even larger particles (10-20) a slight danger. It is when 2 particles get side by side, and sum to a larger size, that wear becomes a real issue, and then only when that size represents a larger dimension than the metal separation based on the engine tolerances. Most wear, therefore, is from 20-40 micron or larger particles, the great bulk of which are captured by today's quality filter media. So in my opinion, bypass filters may have a benefit in systems where tremendously large miles are driven (such as OTR vehicles), and long diration OCI's are desired. Otherwise, to me they represent increase cost, complexity, and another source of leaks or catastrophic filters. Your opinions, yea or nay, are valued.

rontatuaf

Road Rage, as you can imagine there have been numerous studies done re: particle size and wear effects and almost all of them disagree in some fashion or other. My own opinion is that the Rockwell hardness number of a particle is nearly as important as the particle size. Carbanaceous particles internally generated in the combustion process and friction produced steel particles, again internally generated, probably cause more damage than ingested atmospheric contaminants.
As larger paricles are thrown into the atmosphere they tend to settle back to the ground very quickly. This is one reason that driving in stop and go traffic requires more frequent service intervals. Since you are so close to the surrounding vehicles fewer of the particles they throw into the air can settle before you drive through their dust cloud. Smaller particles have a much slower settling rate than larger particles so the majority of the particles, by particle count and not by weight, ingested into the engine will be small, 5 micrometers ( the new way of saying microns) or less. These particles do little in the way of direct damage since the oil film thickness on most parts is greater than that. What happens though is that these particles aglomerate and start blinding oil passages. As oil flow to a part, or bearing surface is reduced due to blocked ports or galleys the film thickness starts breaking down and friction starts to increase heat and that leads to part failure. MOST engines will fail from friction induced heat stress long before wear becomes an issue.
Larger particles will cause more abrasive wear damage than smaller particles. But, if an engine is even minimally serviced there are probably too few of these sizes to cause much damage. Even a really bad filter that is not operating at by pass will remove 10 micrometer particles and above.

Road Rage

Excellent - recog points awarded (my endorsement and age have some privileges here).

Brokedoc

RR,

I thought that the TL filter is that same as those on almost all of the other Acuras and Hondas.

I got this from a product description at a site that the forum software won't let me link to.

15400-PLM-A02 is the part number that I received when I got my filters from the dealer.

rontatuaf

You are kind and wise beyond your years.

Aegir

This is interesting. The topic shifted from oil filters to Superman's sex life! Kevin Smith had a humorous discussion about this in the Mallrats script:

"It's impossible. Lois could never have superman's baby. Do you think her fallopian tubes could handle his sperm ? I guarantee he blows a load like a shotgun right through her back. What about her womb ? You think it's strong enough to carry his child ? Sure. Why not ? He's an alien, for Christ's sake ! His kryptonian biological makeup is enhanced by earth's yellow sun. If Lois gets a tan, the kid could kick right through her stomach. Only someone like wonder woman has a strong-enough uterus to carry his kid. Only way he could bang regular chicks is with a kryptonite condom, but that would kill him."

For an 'on-topic' comment, I still believe the filter bypass has no function other than to prevent media blowout, and that it would only open in limited circumstances.

rontatuaf

I suppose someone so inclined could perform a Mullen burst test on Lois' uterus but I'll leave that to those more adventurous than I.
A short answer to your by pass comment is yes and no. The by pass is there to allow continued oil flow when the filter is clogged. A properly designed filter can withstand the full pressure supplied by the oil pump but if it were to restrict that flow the engine would not receive any lubrication. Obviously a blown filter would relieve that pressure as well but would also allow media fibers to enter the oil.

Aegir

...or help ensure sufficient flow in situations like increased filter d/p when the oil is cold. This makes sense. Thank you.

chas22

I have had several hondas an 86 Accord (just sold) I now have a 04 Pilot, 04 TL, 99 Accord and a 96 Integra, they all use the same filter from Honda. the small filters that hondas are useing now are not very impressive. Some of my other favorites are Purolator 1, NAPA Gold (same as Wix), and Nippon (makers of some of the old Honda filters) Fram and A/C are some real junk. If you want proof for yourself get a hacksaw and take them apart. Don't just take filter out of the can, stretch the filter material out, it will tell the story.

TLAdvanced

iTrader: (4)

RR thank you SO Much!! This is extremely interesting and something I've been worried about with the "break in" oil. I am a recovering mechanic and thought that break-in oil was just a sham!

INSPIRE 32V

iTrader: (1)

man u really pulled this one out of the grave. 4 years old

Bearcat94

I don't think he's gonna hear you.

darksom1

For anybody that CAN answer effectively though, I have a question. I am going to install the Amsoil EA013 oil filter and 0W-30 oil so that I can go a year<25K miles without a change! Do any of you think that filter is too big??

SouthernBoy

Not at all familiar with the filter in question, however I would give strong consideration before taking your engine that long (time and miles) on an oil change.

Just a thought and a friendly suggestion.

BEAR-AvHistory

Bottom line is the S-2000 filter the way to go?

darksom1

A year for me means 13-15K miles SB. They just allow 25K before you have to change if you use BOTH. Go to their website and check it out. Good stuff. But be aware that the filter you see in the pic is just a demo one, not the actual filter you buy, so I don't know what the actual size of it is, is why I am asking. I am DEFINITELY wanting to get it regardless, just trying to get a heads up on the size of the filter is all.

But like my man Bear said - is it ok to use that EA013 filter based on size, according to what was previously written here in this thread????

Bearcat94

There is no clear consensus; everyone has an opinion and/or favorite brand. From the reading I did (which is probably just enough to make me look like a dumbass), the answer was "Yes, the S2000 filter is the one I want." S2000 filter = 15400-PCX-004.

It's the within an 1/8" of the original TL 15400-PLM-A01 diameter; same height as the PLM-A01; Quality Construction by Filtech; decent price (~$7.45 @ shipped from HandA when you buy 6), etc.

The only thing I am a *little* uncomfortable about is the pressure rating on the bypass vs. the PLM-A01. I suspect PCX-004 would be higher if anything, but I am *assuming* not enough to matter.

On the plus side, when I gave my filter to the dealer to use, they commented on how the new TL PLM-A02 was not as good as the PLM-A01 and agreed that the PCX-004 from the S2000 was the closest HONDA filter to the PLM-A01.

I've had the PCX-004 in for ~2,700 miles (30% of life on the MID) and have not experienced anything questionable at all.

Other than that: Caveat Emptor.

TLAdvanced

iTrader: (4)

Oh, thanks. I knew the thread was old, but it seemed like a good one to dig back up....

darksom1

I don't get it...

Why am I the only one interested in the 25K mile oil change cycle?? With the EA013 oil filter, and the 0W-30 oil, you have this time frame to work with. You spend more money by filling it twice or more. Because I only drive 13-15K per year, it's right on time for me!

Bearcat94

^^

Too Radical. Not that it won't work, it's just to big of a leap of faith.

Most of us are still conditioned to "3 months or 3,000 miles". Learning to follow the MID and do ~5,000 mile intervals is hard enough.

1 year or 25,000 miles??

Why that's just crazy talk.

VIP typ-S

THANKS RoadRage for all the info !
So you can use the 04-S2000 PCX filter on our TL's ?
Any thought's on the Mugen filter or Hamp filters ?

darksom1

I will be going no more than 15K miles. Fattysmyl (a mod, sp?) has gone at least 10K miles, probably more and he says his car runs smooth as day 1.

I hate cars

The Eao13 will be fine. I've been running the Eao20 now for over 30K miles.

The filters really blow everything else away. Size for size they will outflow AND outfilter anything on the market. The media is licensed from Donaldson and no one else will be able to make one of these for a while.

I was going to write a novel but the thread below should provide some good reading.

There's a much better link I though I had saved but I'll have to search for it.


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...717#Post773717

I hate cars

The filters have proven that they will go signifigantly more than 25,000 miles.

Taking the oil out to 25K safely requires you do UOA of the oil at certain intervals to see how much life the oil has left. At ~$22 for an analysis you're not saving much money but it does establish a baseline for the next time you use the same oil in the same car.

There have been a few people that have taken the correct Amsoil the distance with ok results after analysis. At over 25K, it was pretty used up but still protecting. I personally would never try it in my TL. Maybe my old beater '87 Celica.

With that said, I use the Amsoil ACD diesel 30wt in the TL with an EAO filter. This combo should be good for 25K and I always have the intentions of changing at an easy 10K but around 4,000 miles I start losing sleep at night and give in.

BEAR-AvHistory

For what its worth the BMW 330's MID nags for an oil change at 15K miles. Standard oil in the car is synthetic.


Anyone have thoughts on the Mobil M1-104 filter?

I hate cars

The M1-104 filter is about the best store bought filter you can buy. K&N oil (not air) filters are very good too. M1 is what I use on my mother's and friends' cars. Still a distant second place to the EA0 filters but a good filter. If I weren't so OCD I would use them or at least take the Amsoil stuff out past 10K like they're supposed to be used especially considering the car will probably fall apart around the motor.

I hate cars

Too late to Edit my last post but I wanted to add that your BMW probably holds a few more quarts of oil than the TL which is why it can go a little further without problems. It's probably a lot more specific as to which type of synthetic you can use such as "German Castrol".

BEAR-AvHistory

Will have to take a look. So far its been on the dealer with the free maintance deal. Next one is on me.