I hate cars

I couldn't help myself, I did it. After reading that Amsoil has changed their formulation and Honda is no longer on their compatibility list I needed something new. I always try and improve on OEM and I have to try something different, sometimes just for the sake of trying something different. Now for the reasons why I chose this particular fluid...

Honda uses a thicker PSF fluid than just about any other manufacturer. They also use lots of ZDDP in the add pack. No other synthetic PSF met both the viscosity criteria and additive pack criteria. The Redline High Temp fluid is thicker than other ATFs at 10cSt, making it a little thinner than the Honda spec but not by much and being a synthetic with a great base oil, it can afford to be thinner while still protecting better.

So why ATF? The power steering system and an automatic transmission are very similar. Both use vane style hydraulic pumps. Both run similar hydraulic pressures. Both run similar temps. Both have similar sheer stresses with the vane style pumps and the rack and pinion vs planetary and helical gears. The transmission will *usually* sheer the fluid worse. You end up with two similar systems and the way I look at it is if the fluid will hold up to AT use, it will hold up to PS use. The one potential issue is Zinc. Honda fluid has a lot of it. From the MSDS sheet, the ATF has little to none. There are other additives that can be effectively substituted for zinc, most of the time they're not used due to cost but this isn't a cheap fluid. I might look into their break-in additive as well since it's a huge concentrated dose of zinc. Still not sure if it's necessary in combination with the other additives in this fluid.

Back in the old days and even in modern vehicles, ATF is used in the power steering. Some spec an ATF, some relabel an ATF as PSF and charge more and some oddballs like Honda have an oddball specific PSF. I truly believe these fluids are similar enough in both viscosity (not too important) and additive pack that the great base oil and additive pack will help ensure a long life.

So this thread is kind of a running log, a time stamp and a way to note any problems from the fluid. It's hard to note any differences in the 5 minute drive I've had with this ATF. The steering feels ever so slightly heavier with the thicker fluid but it's not a valid test since the fluid was luke warm. When I first start it in the morning I'll know if there's any noticeable change in steering feel. There were never any problems with steering feel using the Amsoil, I'm not expecting much in the way of steering feel change.

Noise is one area that might have changed. Without measuring it there's no way to know for sure if it's the fluid or if it's the placebo effect. I removed the plastic engine bay cover over the power steering pump and turned the wheel side to side at idle and at 2,000rpm and noted the noise. Later, after the 3rd drain and fill with the ATF I could swear it's quieter while repeating the same tests. With the cover on and the hood down I can hear nothing at all even with my door open and leaning toward the ground which is how I could hear the power steering before.

I'm not expecting to notice much in the way of performance changes but who knows. This change in fluid is primarily to try something new and different since Amsoil is off the list and to hopefully improve the life expectancy of the entire power steering system. Only time will tell. I think its safe to say this is probably the only TL running an ATF in the power steering system. Got to get some sleep, I've fallen asleep twice while writing this.

paperboy42190

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in for updates

4drviper

sub'd for the half bottle of ATF lying around lol

I hate cars

Drove all around town today, lots of stop and go. Can't say I really notice a change. Just as when I first went to a synthetic fluid there is pretty much no difference between cold to hot. Noise is possibly lower. I can't hear the pump with the door open and my head to the ground. If there is a change its very, very small.

24hr conclusion: little to no difference which is great considering I liked the way the steering felt before the change. Now hopefully the power steering system will last a very long time. I suspect if any issues arise it will be in the form of leaks.

tegman2

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Wayyy OT question for you Matt.
Did you ever get those IB15s? Ive tried to send you a pm about them but its full. LMK if you have any you want to sell.

Morrissey25

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Sub'd for updates

I hate cars

Sold them. I might be doing two or three 13W7s infinite baffle soon so mine might be up for sale soon. I love them so much I'm still considering keeping them. 250w each with that kind of efficiency and IB will do what 2,000w on most other systems will do.

hofiveo

Yeah My 3 ford f-350s 7.3 diesels(2-2000&1 2001) use trans fluid in power steering which in turn runs the hydroboost for the brakes(instead of vacuum booster) and of course I use schaeffers trans fluid. I will look into this for my acura and see what happens in my region. As always IHC great experimentation. Wish I could meet up one day with yeah and drive the GN LOL.

johnny3

I've bought a lot of Hondas & Acuras for myself, 3 daughters & 6 grandchildren, all now well past driving age. Two were new, 8 or 10 were well used & ready or way past due for their major work & axle replacement. Two had P.S. fluid leaks, I questioned the seller about the leaks & he replied that he kept them & all the other cars he had ever owned serviced & "topped off" with ATF in the P.S. systems. I had to change out both of them with rebuilt rack & pinion assemblys to end the leaks (at different times but from the same seller). Long story short, I keep a case of Honda P S fluid on hand all the time for 60-80K mile fluid changes, would never use anything else.

I hate cars

I actually have a hydroboost system as well. The '84-early '85 cars had it back when they were afraid the boost would kill brake booster operation. When I did the conversion to the later style powertrain I retained the hydroboost. I love it, better pedal feel and plenty of power. The only problem with mine is there's no reserve reservoir if the engine dies. Not too big of a problem, I can still stop fairly hard without the boost. It's surely better than the electric brakes they went with in the later years. When they went out, you had no brakes, nothing. I remember our '87 rolling down the driveway and across the culdesac with a brake failure, maybe 5mph and the brakes did nothing. I ended up getting out and stopping the car myself right before it plowed over the neighbor's mailbox. Even 5mph meant a lot of lost rubber from my shoes lol.

You can drive the GN if I can drive the Mustang. Mine is down right now, it's been down for a while, just no time or money to get it going again. There's a chance I might be in your area over the next year for work. I'll hit you up if that ever happens.

hofiveo

Yeah same here, stang down but starting to build electrical throughout car shooting for late summer to be done with motor, trans, front & rear suspect setup, basically rebuilding whole car. Looking to get close to GN times with nos of course on a 331. He'll yeah I drive yours you drive mine is done deal. I miss owning my GN!!!!

I hate cars

I *might* have noticed a change over the past couple days, the steering is possibly heavier when cold but if I have to wonder if there was a change its probably not worth mentioning.

I ordered some Redline break-in additive to get the zinc levels up to stock levels. It looks like half a bottle to the gallon that I have will put zinc in the 1380ppm range a d the phosphorous in the 1145ppm range, perfect! No leaks or anything bad to report. So far so good. As with most systems the power steering system just like the engine and trans are tolerant to a wide range of viscosities. The engine now has a heavy 30/light 40wt with a 4.2 HTHS, 12.85cst@100C, 78cst@40C, -45 degree C pour point, and a 166 viscosity index. This In my opinion is close to my idea of the ideal oil. I would love a slightly higher viscosity index but its great for my climate.

hofiveo

More on this later, but looking at your oil #s and my schaeffer #s the only one that is way different is the HTHS, yours 4.2 and mine is 3.2. What makes yours 1 point higher or mine 1 lower, what contributes to this. Gotta go, but will ask more on PS later.

kingkong_dav

no matter the atf it is not recommended for acura ps system. but how does it feel?

I hate cars

I can't tell a difference in feel or in noise. It's quiet and feels normal. So far so good. I would never recommend anyone else do this but I had a little extra money laying around so if this thing doesn't work I'll just replace the system. I do have high hopes since viscosity and additives are very close to the stock fluid but I did this just to do it, boredom. In the middle of my valve adjustment, I'll report back in a week or two.

kingkong_dav

becareful because it may stiffen your rack so bad it will get stuck. it will bind n make it unsafe to drive.I know u said you can afford a new system but include the rack n pinion to that too. just looking out for your expermiments. gl

dcmodels

Does Honda really sell the same PS fluid in Canada and other low temp locations? Do those drivers/ people have any problems in winter? anyone here from Canada? Some fluid manufs do use a different chem-makeup in different markets, such as Canada or Australia or Europe.

nfnsquared

I've had zero issues in ND and my car has seen many -10F and a few -20F cold soaks over 7 winters with the OEM fluid.

I hate cars

I've seen manufacturers use a different fluid in the really cold areas without the customer knowing. My dealer uses only 5w-30 (smartly) in everything since we have mild winters and very hot summers. The only 20wt is on the display counter.
Nfn- stay out of my threads you're not screwing up another one with your babble that no one listens to anyway.

nfnsquared

Dude, you don't own any thread on here. Dcmodels question was directed at someone in a low temp location, which is a question I am uniquely qualified to answer after 7 brutal winters up here. I will continue to help out a fellow member and provide the information requested, regardless of thread origination. End of story.

And dcmodels, to further answer your question, the Honda dealer up here only has the OEM fluid. In addition to me, no one I know up here with a Honda or Acura has any issues with the OEM fluid during the winters up here.

I hate cars

Honda uses different fluid in cold places.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

IHC and nfn- please check your PM's. Thanks.

nfnsquared

Hmmm. Where?

4drviper

I know this is about redline ATF, but if that turns out okay, could i possibly use leftover amsoil ATF? if i could, type F or not?

I hate cars

In the cold places.

I hate cars

It's not really about redline, just ATF in general. Redline just happens to have a thicker than normal atf that matches stock PSF fluid pretty closely.

I don't want to let the cat out of the bag until I get some more drive time but I might go back to a thinner fluid. Probably another atf like D4 or a 30wt motor oil. I got spoiled with the thin Amsoil stuff. It had perfectly consistent steering feel from the coldest winter morning to full running temp on a 100 degree summer day. There's a very small change in steering feel, the wheel gets slightly sluggish on a 28 degree morning but no more, probably even less than it did with the factory fluid. This is me being too picky.

I really can't recommend that you use this stuff. While I believe it has huge potential to lower wear and clean better it's untested and there could be consequences down the road.

If you're going to do it I wouldn't run the Type F. You want friction modifiers in the power steering system. D4 or Amsoil's "ATF" would be a good start if you live in a cold area otherwise, their "High Temp" fluid should be used. The factory fluid is about the same viscosity as a 30wt motor oil if that helps at all. "Normal" ATF is in the thin side of the 20wt range.

Again, I advise against trying this unless you have the money put aside to fix it if something goes wrong. I have very high hopes that it will perform very well (or I wouldn't try it lol) but it's potential leaks that worry me.

nfnsquared

The fact is that the Honda PSF performs fine in severe cold weather and there's absolutely no need for a different fluid due to cold weather.

I challenge you to provide any proof of where Honda uses something else in cold environments and which fluid they use.

I hate cars

I just found it on google. They use Honda cold weather PSF in cold areas. I challenge you to find it.

nfnsquared

Honda cold weather PSF for a Honda/Acura? Bwahaha, what a bunch of crap.

I hate cars

It's right there on google. I found it in 5 seconds. Its a 7cSt fluid.

hofiveo

Found it in 10 seconds

I hate cars

See. It's right there. Was it the red bottle?

nfnsquared

Oh wait, I found it, but I had to use IHCmakesupanotherstory.google.com... bwhahahaha

hofiveo

Yep, true Honda red.

I hate cars

Good find, that's the racing cold temp fluid. Full ester formula worth 5hp.

swoosh

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sub'd

mau108

This thread has gone off topic and misleading info. I'll let another mod deal with the posters.

Thread is being closed, may be reopened once all the BS stops.

ggesq

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Thread is re-opened. To others reading this thread, please do not attempt to stir the pot between other posters. Thanks.

SharksBreath

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hofiveo