KpMeth

They rated TL 10...in Value around that price.

TL got also rated almost 10 points higher than average same level cars.

TL runs FASTER and SMOOTHER and has MORE horses but I have no idea why so many people are crazy about BMW 3...

I have drove BMW 330 Ci. Hell...I like TL alot better somehow.

Seats are more comfy, it runs quitely, better options with less money.

(Those of you who think more money, the better parts....thats why you guys are spending 350 dollar for Japanese Bathing Apes shoes that looks exactly like Air Force 1???)

Lets face it. TL is better whip.

frenchnew

One thing and one thing only, S-T-A-T-U-S, this is why most people choose the BMW.

KpMeth

In Car and Driver...TL got 3rd place which is behind G and BMW.

BIGGIEST reason that TL got3rd place is thatit is FFD.

TL has 270-HP and just cuz its FFD, Whole 270 horses can't work out at the same time.

well..thats kinda sad but who cares. I love TL

massr1

they should do a long test comparo in a few years between the TL and 3 series, and see how many people still love their bimmers after their engines explode

Shark

Thank you! There is no car in the TL price range where you get a bigger bang for the buck! NONE! For some reason we always want to compare and in some cases bash the TL because it doesn't quite measure up to those cars 6-7 grand higher. Should it be better for 6-7k less???? We might as well compare it to a car 6-7k less and say how great it vs a loaded Taus, Ford 500, ect. Want to compare 40k+ cars then use the RL but not the TL. Is the TL perfect...No, but for 33k, fully equipped, it is quite a steal, just compare! Maybe that's why we bought it in the 1st place.

Laxplaya11385

i fully agree. Is it really worth an extra 7k for this so called "status?"
The only "status" difference i see is that they have to spend more $$ on maintenance hehehe

KpMeth

Yup Yup

Bimmer is KNOWN for high-priced maintanences.

The one I drove BMW 330 Ci's owner said that he likes BMWs but hates when they asking way too much dough for their services.

Wow...BMW. (Bad Mother F**king Workship)

Im not saying this just cuz I own TL.

I actually could afford 330 but hey....How the hell want to spend extra more money for maintanences????? fuck that

BMW maybe has its name-value. Just like Nikes...using cheap-ass rubber on the bottom of thier shoe named 'SHOX' and wants $60 just for that god damn piece of rubber.

Acura doesn't spend money on commercials as much as BMWs.

CUZ...they know people who have smart thinking will buy thier cars

SergeyM

BMW maintenance is free for 4 years 50K miles.

mr drippington

you run on absolute bullshit rumors

the BMW straight 6 is fathoms more bulletproof than your sideways mounted V-6

if you took the extra 30 minutes to actually drive the 3 series you would realize what a heap the acura is. Wow it's 7 grand cheaper, but it's 15 grand shittier

if you claim to be an "enthusiast" and somehow still "prefer" the TL

you have very poor taste

the TL is a good car for people who can't afford a 3 series and don't care about driving dynamics

Ken1997TL

Considering most of my driving is 95% done on NORMAL roads that have mild turns/curves, FWD vs RWD is quite pointless.

mr drippington

ken, you never get to the limit of the tires?? even in the wet?

hey it's great if you don't, it's certainly not responsible in any way for me to get going to the limits of the tires on public roads, but I like a neutral response that can be modulated by the throttle if I do decide to get to the limits.

i agree that 95% of the time it's pointless, but 95% of the time we could have all bought civics and saved a lot of money. It's the potential of the car that we all pay for, and there are different price points for different demands.

neuronbob

The 5AT can be made more neutral by using the A-Spec and a Comptech rear sway bar. I can attest from my experience that the A-Spec suspension and good tires alone do wonders for the handling of the car, and we have multiple reports on this board about how adding the RSB makes the car more neutral. It is not a BMW by any means, but it really gets close for a FWD car.

As far as your comment about the TL being for people who can't afford a BMW.....sigh. I can afford a 545 (why bother with a tiny 3 series?) but chose the TL because the money I saved is being used for investments. 'nuff said. You certainly can't dispute the value equation when purchasing a TL.

SouthernBoy

And the Chevy small block (and Ford 302 small block) is heads and shoulders above the Bimmer i-6.

Personnally having co-owned a 3-Series BMW with my wife, I would be hard pressed to ever buy another one. The German automotive design and engineering just doesn't impress me all that much.. I mean, they do some weird stuff. I considered the M3 before I bought my '04 TL. I also considered the Jaguar, the Z06 Corvette, the new Ford Focus ZX4 ST (the auto-bigots on this site had a fit with that one), and the Cadillac CTS-V. I came down to the CTS-V and the TL.

Now the Vette and the CTS-V will run circles around an M3 and give it morning sickness on the drag strip (my preferrence). All in all, I'm pleased with my TL purchase and don't look back. There is one car out there now that I love.. the new Ford Mustang. Once again, Ford got it right.

clsdave

And don't forget for people that might have to drive in poor weather or road conditions. I would like to see a comparison of the two cars on a test track with a little snow, ice, oil... This seems to be always over looked!

SouthernBoy

Incidently, when it comes to car brands and domestic or foreign, I have very little bias (I used to in my younger years). My preferrence is to buy American because.. well, I am one. But when the time comes to buy, I purchase what I want and desire at the time, be it domestic or not.

I like Car and Driver and have subscribed for years. But they have a strong bias in favor of BMW's. Used to not be that way in the 60's.. they were very strong American. There is no such thing as the perfect car, but some come pretty close. This is a good thing for us enthusiasts and gearheads because we benefit from the competition. Horsepower and performance wars are back and in full swing and thank God for that.

Shark

Due to where we live, for some of us FWD was a major selling point not a negative. I know it was for me.

Scribesoft

Ahhh, pardom me for interrupting your rant, but many of us here bought the TL because it does more things better than the other cars we test drove... A car, for most people, is not just about taking a corner at 10/10. I'm not going to waste my time with you RE: TL vs. BMW...

But know this, I didn't even consider a 3-series.... not because I can't afford it, but because it's too damn small for my 2 kids and not polished enough for my clients..
I was interested in a 5 series (much better comparison with a TL in size).. I see the 3 series as a "wanna-be" BMW. Why didn't I get the 5 series?? Because the salesman was an obnoxious prick and I simply walked out of his dealership..Oh, and i-Drive is the biggest POS I've ever used!

Oh and by the way, I am 31, own my own business, and my personal draw varies from between 10-12k every 2 weeks based on how much I invoiced.. So I don't think someone who could pay CASH for your little 3 series with only about 6 weeks worth of work is "settling" with a car simply based on $$.. Spending ALL of your money on a depreciating item such as a car is not a wise decision. Some of us have college funds for our children, large homes (BTW - how many sq ft is YOUR home?.. Not your parents, the one YOU pay the mortgage on? or do you rent and put ALL your money into your precious bimmer?)

Please don't come here and insult people who have more going on on their lives than fighting about who's car is better. For a TL owner, the best car is a TL... For a BMW owner, the best car is a BMW.. that's all.

Best part of your rants???? You have so little going on in your life, you come to a Acura board (which you obviously don't like) at 3 in the morning on a (Fri/Sat). Sorry man, but you need a girl. Wise up or you'll be miserable your entire life.

Trell

Daaaang, but thats real talk the TL for 33k cant beat it.

TampaMike

I'm with ya Scribe. I celebrate our choices, and the different needs we all have to be satified by those choices. I am impressed with the Bimmer, but for my needs, the TL betters suits me. I need not bash others for their choices should they not be aligned with mine, as he feels a need to do.

But when you think about it....if he is SO whole and forfilled with his Bimmer....why the heck is he out perusing a TL board with poison pen in hand?Has he doubts? Does he need justification he made the right choice? Is he worried the TL might offer features / aspects better than his Bimmer?

I see an Achilles heel in the almighty Bimmer owner. I say hooray for us happy with our TL choice and hooray for those satisfied with their Bimmers, Gs, IS, etc, etc, etc....

massr1

driving dynamics? how bout REAL WORLD dynamics. sure the bmw may take better corners on a track, but lets see who ends up in the ditch one snowy canadian morning. btw the 3 series is a poor excuse for a bmw, and my corolla holds more cargo

Dkrudop

I agree with several points....especially the bang-for-the-buck and the size issues. The 3 series is simply not big enough for me and the things my family need to carry and still ride in comfort. As for "affording a 3-series," I could have easily afforded the 3, but why? My TL is smooth, quiet, quick, and loaded with features that cost extra thousands on a 3......plus I didn't feel a need to impress with a "label." If our little friend is pleased with his mini-bimmer, that's great for him and I hope he enjoys it. I know I'm more than happy with my RRP TL.

nikko

Just so you know, BMW maintenance is for free for 4 years/50k miles whichever comes first.

mickey3c

Car and Driver and so many other mags do not care about maintenance etc. The thing could fall apart in a month just so long as the car holds together for a week. They rarely keep cars for 5 years and put 70k on them and then say oh, you know that car you bought 5 years ago, if you owned a Tl you had less headaches. So all that crap you have to take with a grain of salt as they say.

I know many are uspet that their car did not make the top slot for whatever reason. The TL is not a great quality car... the trends show that fact with the 2g issues they had and the more recent 3G trends.. The history is there... so hard to dispute it. If you have not had problems consider yourself lucky or more likely to experience them.

Everyone comes from a different driving/maintenance experience or frame of reference so no matter what anyone says you either agree or disagree.

nikko

Altough I own a 545 I drove the new 330i quite a few times.
No offence dear TL owners, but in my books, 330i is better in about everything than TL.
Maybe this is the reason why you see by far more bimmers on the road than TLs, I am talking about Toronto area.
Anyway, this is me and nothing will ever convince me otherwise. I am a BMW addicted and there is nothing I can do about it.
Don't get me wrong, TL is a nice car but it doesn't do it for me.

KpMeth

Every one loves their own purchase right??

To be strictly mega honest with you....I didn't like 330 at all.

that was b4 I bought TL. BMW is just hyped viechle.

It obcourse hasbetter handling cuz its RWD. duh...that doesn't mean they did something to its engine.

TL is FWD. Less-slippery. thats it.

Who cares if your car has betterhandling bit gets slipped every wet corner.

6mtV6

When I first got a 04 TL, I could've afforded a 3 series. When I traded in my TL, after owning it for only 6 months, for a 6mt TL, I could've got a 3 series. People don't buy the TL simply because they can't afford a BMW. They buy what they like, what they need, etc. I'll admit that the TL was the only car I test drove besides the G35 and I just fell in love with it.

Why did I get a TL in the first place? Value, reliability, quality, smoothness, great engine. First TL I had didn't have the quality and smoothness I thought it had. I thought it was my TL I had that was experiencing these problems. I traded the 5at for a 6mt. The 6mt TL was the same. Where are the quality and smoothness that Honda/Acura is known for? After owning 3 3rd gen TLs, I didn't see it. I owned one TL for only a day due to paint defects on the fender. Dealer gave me a new one. Should paint peel after less than a year of ownership? Should the steering wheel vibrate when you drive 60mph and above? I don't think so. Acura wouldn't do anything about it. I will never buy another Honda/Acura product again. They just don't build cars like they used to.

The 5th gen Maxima I had was so much better. The Maxima didn't have the navi, bluetooth, and DVD-A, but it did have everything else. My uncle's 04 Altima is built so much better than the TLs I owned. I really do believe that Nissan/Infiniti builds better cars than Honda/Acura.

Why would I keep making payments on a car that has so many problems? I finally traded it for a E90 330i. I was also considering the G35 coupe and IS350. IS350 didn't offer a manual. G35 coupe should have a new design next year.

I was once a person that bashes BMWs. Saying that people only buy it for the status symbol. After test driving some BMWs, I was wrong about their cars. After a week of ownership, I know why people love BMWs. Don't confuse the E46 with the E90. The E90 is a great improvement on a sports sedan, the E46, that is almost perfect. The 3 series is BMW's most important car. I believe 60% of BMW's sales are from the 3 series. The E90 is the most important new car of the year.

Please go test drive a BMW like how you would regularly drive a car before claiming that BMW's are terrible.

JerseySport

ive driven the 325 and the 330 (awd) whichever model that is. my bro has the x-5 and we got those as loaners on two different occassions. ive never been more uncomfortable after driving 2 hours in a vehicle. the handling was ok, the engine loud when floored, but nice pick-up. being loaner cars the options were minimal but it seems all bmw models have very similar interiors. could be wrong though. no space for anything inside the car and good luck if your over 5'9" and have to sit in the back seat. its all preference who cares what car is better im sure the tl has just as many disadvantages (but i still havent noticed as many after 3 weeks of owning mine). if you have bmw good for you, if you have a tl good for you. why do most people buy the 3 series because it is the cheapest model and they want the bmw emblem on the front. i could have bought an 05 escalade but why? gas is astronomical and i will own my tl in three years at 350 a month. everyone has there own reasons for the car they buy, but who cares why you bought it or what you could have bought. and i believe that if a bmw or lexus broke down in a car test they still would finish 1 or 2. i would take a tl over a bmw 3 series any day. on a side note i would have bought the G35 if the front of that car wasnt so damn ugly!!!!!! just my input

NoRespect

Such anger... Maybe it's because you are trying to justify the monthly payment?

gsxr60097

My neighbor bought a brand new 330 and i liked it but it still seems to have the same interior as all the other BMW's. No navi and he paid over 43k for it (it was the sport edition). When I told him how much mine was and what some of the specs were his jaw hit the floor and he said he should have gotton a TL. Go figure..

2005Aspec

I can tell you why I didnt buy BMW.

The styling blows and the interior is junk.

If I wanted a four door car that handled "extremely well" I wouldnt buy a 3 series or a TL. If I wanted more straight line or handling speed I wouldnt have purchased either as well.

The Bmw only has prestige over the Acura, and if you want to argue otherwise you're nuts. Amenities are definitely in favor of the TL as is practicality. (Weather wise)

If we consider pricing it makes it even more of a landslide for the TL. The BMW is overpriced for what you get, especially when you consider the is350, g35, and TL. More BMW's are on the road than TL's, but it sure isnt 330 models, it's the cheap shits that the neighborhood immigrant buys because it's "prestige." (That's what you get here, or the 16 year olds."

Heck the 3 series is nothing more than a european civic around here.


Now about the guy that says TL purchasers can't afford the 3 series: Last time I checked, spending nearly 40k in cash on an a-spec tl puts me well in the class of affording much more expensive cars. I bet that more than 75% of this website could have bought a loaded 330 but chose not to for subjective reasons.

Shark

1)1) No way. I've owned Nissans and Honda's for years and would give the nod to Honda's. Just my opinion, but compare resale value(s) on comparable models for each.

2) Don't want to drvie a BMW or Mecedes, ect. We seem to be getting off track here. I for one am not saying a BMW is terribel nor am I claiming my TL is better. If the BWM is 7-8 K more shouldn't it be better? If not, something's wrong! What I am saying is that I'm tired of people comparing the TL to vehicles 7-8K more and then saying they don't stack up. Should it??? Compare it to another 33k vehicle.

We all bought are cars because we like like them. If you like BMW better..great! Like Infinity better..great, but I like the TL better and the $$ value of this car.

No one should buy I car because I like it better but quit trying to tell me my TL doesn't stack up to your higher priced vehicle!

crazymjb

3 series still doesnt really give you status. the 325 MSRP is something like 7k less than ours, a fully stripped down 330 goes for about as much. So there is not much of a status difference unless someone is looking into your windo(bimmer drivers) to see if you have seat heaters or not).

SebringSilver

I wonder if people would be saying things like that if the TL had been "made in Japan".

03CoupeV6

The Marysville, OH. built 99 Accord I traded in for my TL (a Gen2) was bulletproof. It had not one single issue - absolutely NOT ONE - in 95,000 miles. On the other hand, a friend has a Japan-built 98 Camry LE that had about the same miles and the interior had not held up like the Honda's, the EGR valve was a constant problem, it didn't seem to want to stay in alignment, the bumpers and mirrors faded to silver from gold, etc. The whole "Japan built = superior" is simply a bias and there is absolutely no proof to back it up. None whatsoever.

Edit: My Gen2 has had more problems in 47k miles than I've had in all my past Honda's combined.

fan_bo

Well in my opinon, i work at BMW and i driven the 330 many times. its a great car...especially the 330CI M package! awesome car to drive. suspension is awesome, gearbox is awesome, RW drive is definatly awesome, looks great, but value wise the TL is much better! the TL comes with everything, whereas the 3's everything is a option.

The TL is a great car, and in my opinion the "better buy". just gives u more value with just as much excitement!

Alot of ppl's reason to buy the 330 is "just drive it, u'll understand" and its true. there great to drive. its a pure breed "drivers" car.
but for money value the TL definatly ownes it ! and if i had to pick one, it would be the TL. but i would love to have a 330ci M package. HOT car!

Laxplaya11385

both japanese cars and BMW/MB are very well built. They last forever (if well taken care of), and they are quality cars. It's just that BMW/MB have always been synonymous with luxury, which is one of the reasons that the price tag is a bit higher. If you want great interior styling (IMO, the TL gets the nod on this one) and a lot of included features, go Acura. If you want superior comfort and a "airy ride" (IMO MB definitely takes this one, just b/c you barely feel any bumps in the road), go BMW/MB. Acura hasn't been in the luxury scene for as long as BMW/MB has, but i'm sure they'll catch up.

KpMeth

Well....TL is made in USA.

70% of its parts are made in USA and tranny istheone from Japan.

That doesn't mean that TL is junk...Every products that made in other countries that suppost to be from Japan originally, gets SERIOUS quality test under Japanese supervisors.

Notjust Japan...all other countries.

cuz...they def don't like getting ruined in their reputation by let others make their products.

KpMeth

Well, as I said before..I was thinking about getting BMW 330.

I drove my friend's 330 Ci and others 325.

That was way before I was even thinking about getting TL.

BMW is decent car but in my opinion...its def OVER-PRICED.

Funny thing is, in driving experience, TL felt alot better....to me
(personally, Im not tech geek..I don't give a crap if car comes with DVD-A what so ever. I loved way it runs, that made me to go to Acura dealership)

Scribesoft

Hi All - Does anyone else feel like we are a hornets nest and Mr. Drippington was whacking it with a stick to get us going? Notice, he hasn't been back since we all went off on him.

I think he came over from some bimmer forum just to get things shaken up over here.

Just a thought... He's probably checking in every few hours now and posting our conversation to a bimmer group.. for a good laugh.

6mtV6

It's sad that we have to bash on our competitors. We should be happy there's competition.

I traded my TL for a 330i. I still love the TL. I do miss the TL somtimes. They all have their pluses and minuses.