chfields

I'm relatively new to the forum and doing research for upcoming purchase of 07 TL W/Navi Black/Black. I took a test drive today and noticed that the engine seemed slow to respond to the accelerator. The salesman stated it was the drive by wire system that gave it that feel. I currently own a 03 Honda CRV and 95 Saturn SC2 and have no "hesitation/slowness" with acceleration. Is this just new technology I need to get used to or something else?

bluenoise

I doubt the drive-by-wire system is causing the lag you're feeling, but I never notice it on my car. I suppose, though, that the DBW system could be slower, if the motor that moves the throttle plate is slow compared to a cable-linked system.

chfields

I guess that may be something I will have to live with. I may try test driving a different one and I also want to try the G35 , however, from what I have seen and read, the TL is the better deal.

chill_dog

I don't notice too much hesitation...maybe once in a while (like if I stomp it, it might take 1 second to respond)...no problems during normal/regular driving.

sand spaz

Drive another car that one has a problem.

chfields

Thanks!!

TLin05

Next time, try turning the VSA off (button on left side of dash). Especially with the 6-speed trans and aggressive throttle application from a stop, it's a night and day difference. I normally keep the VSA on for added safety in routine driving, but always punch it off when in "combat mode."

Flippie

They need to upgrade to a dual core pentium processer.
Just kidding....I sometimes notice a little lag in throttle response.

2004TL4me

As chill_dog said during normal driving you don't notice it. Early on, I was going up a hill behind a slow truck on a two lane highway and decided to move to the next lane and punch it. Didn't do anything anything initially, then kick in a split second later and went full throttle with a jerk. It took me by surprise at first but have gotten used to it since then. I read about this on another thread before I got my car and at that point understood what the poster was talking about. Just something you learn to adapt to.

tman

Own a 05 with Auto, and I notice a hesitation when I need to quickly accelerate from a dead stop. It is intermittent, but it is annoying.
Use to own an O2 TL type S auto and it never hesitated. Wondering if a lot more of us experience this

05TLTony

It may be just me, but I've noticed that if I use manualmatic, it seems to accelerate quicker and faster than in auto mode. I've also noticed that there isn't any lag or lack of after the CAI installation.

chfields

I'm hoping to find out if this is a wide spread issue as I do find it annoying. However, I may get used to it after awhile.

tman

I will address this with the Dealer when I take it in for Product update on temp display problem. I don't like it, you don't pay this much $$$$ for hesitation. Turning off the VSA is something I need to try.

TL42

Gents,

This might, and I stress, might be the vsa's reaction to a very sudden request for power and it is trying to limit wheel slip so you don't fry the rubber. Just a guess on my part here, I am no mechanic, but I do love that ride of mine.

Cheers

TL42 - Gord

NSXNEXT

iTrader: (2)

It could also be the torque converter engaging in the tranny.

chfields

It's possible, but I don't think that is it, as I get that even when under very light acceleration. Other people I have spoken to say it is because the throttle is controlled electronically rather than by cable.

chfields

If that is the problem that needs to be fixed, as I've never had that with any other vehicle

SouthernBoy

The ECU, like many cars, was designed to "learn" your driving habits and adjust accordingly. I have noticed that if I drive like an older person then have to get into it suddenly, there is a momentary hestitation. This is normal.

As for throttle response, for a small, low-torque engine, mine is superb. My TL has excellent throttle response.. feels like a tightly wound spring. Significantly better than my former '02 Altima SE and a friend's '04 G35 automatic.

Oh, mine is an '04 manual tranny version.

tman

It is going to affect auto trans more then manual. Driving "normal" which is 99% of the time for me, I do not feel any hesitation. Only when I have to accelerate quickly from a dead stop, even then, it is intermittent.
As far as computer learning my driving style, I have 11,000 mi on it. It better be done learning by now.
I believe it has something to do with drive by wire technology. I much better prefer a cable from the pedal to throttle body.

Nandito28

Drive by wire...was made for no hesitation (hence the name) its suppose to react instantly like a light switch...from my understanding

I have a 05 TL MT

But I'm noticeing the hesitation on the 06 TL AT loaner that I currently have.

stevel

absolutely wrong. drive by wire is made to prevent fuel from being injected in the engine that might not be able to be burned under certain circumstances. you push the pedal, then the ECM determines if it can burn the fuel it will inject if it gives you the amount of throttle opening that you are requesting. if it doesn't think the fuel will be burned, it won't give you what you want. thank uncle sam, california, and the epa for that one. a light switch is on or off, the throttle pedal signal with DBW is a variable signal that is used to calculate and output based on many variables.........

Will Y.

The drive-by-wire system in the TL is adaptive, and may have set itself for drivers who accelerate gently most of the time if it has some miles on it.
When I got my TL (5-sp automatic), it had something fewer than 12 miles on it. I had to learn to baby the accelerator and use it gradually when I noticed I was doing 90+mph on my first merge onto the freeway on the way home from the dealership. Now, acceleration seems to take more pedal travel/effort, but there is no decrease in responsiveness for kickdowns or upshifts.
I thought the drive-by-wire was for fuel efficiency rather than responsiveness.

chfields

I was taking a test drive at the dealer and the car had 150 miles on it. I noticed it even when I just touched it enough to move forward a few feet(press pedal nothing happens, press harder then it goes). I had no problems with "punching" it on freeway for passing, actually, it was very good. It was mostly slow and medium speeds that I felt it. It almost felt as if someone else driving, it didn't feel like it was reacting to my inputs. Maybe I'm just used to instant response.

mondesi99

After I installed my CAI the throttle response seems much quicker.

SouthernBoy

The ECU on the TL, as in many cars, "learns" the manner in which you drive and adjusts itself accordingly. If you have been driving easily and carefully for several days, then suddenly get into it, you may notice a slight hesitation or lag before the engine "connects" and takes off.

My '04 manual has excellent throttle response, especially when you consider that fact that the TL has a rather small low-torque engine. Mine feels like a tightly coiled spring. The throttle response is much better than my former 2002 Altima SE and a friend's 2004 G35 automatic.

Ka0tik

my moms 540i does the same thing, its with most newer high quality cars

chfields

Does that mean, if I buy the car, that it will improve after it "learns" how I drive?
How can I make it "learn" to give instant response?

Will Y.

There is a thread here somewhere about how to "reflash" the ECU so the car reacts as if it were new from the factory. However, the adaptive drive-by-wire system will adapt to whatever driving style you generally use.
If you get a new car, you won't have to worry about reflashing or having the system re-adapt, though. I found the TL more responsive with smoother auto tranny than the G35s I tested.
Try testing a new TL to see how you like the feel.
I assume another way to change response is to "drive it like you stole it!" after the break-in period.

chfields

The TL I test drove was new and only had 150 miles on it. I'm going to test drive a G35 for comparison, however, I don't think I can get anywhere near the features on the G35 that the TL has. I want to test if what someone said earlier about all the newer models having this issue. I don't plan on purchasing until Christmas time when the 07's are out and hopefully some of these issues will be addressed.

SouthernBoy

No, not really. What it does is adapt to your driving style. It does this rather quickly. For example, say you're stuck in heavy traffic, moving along (when you do) at under 5 MPH. The ECU will reduce throttle response deliberately so that you don't accidently add too much throttle and have the car strike the vehicle in front of you. It also keeps the car from bucking at very low speeds in 1st gear when it does this.. a nice little feature.

If you tend to drive the car more aggressively, then it will "know" this and reward you with superb throttle response. The only times I've felt my TL (a manual) lag or hesitate slightly when I add heavier throttle is when I have been in heavy traffic, coupled with low speeds, like in city or heavy residential driving. Otherwise, mine is really super in the throttle response area. Like I mentioned, with only 238 lb/ft of torque on tap, you'd think there was more.

SouthernBoy

Have to ask.. what issues are you concerned about in your statement, "and hopefully some of these issues will be addressed"?

Perhaps you should go back and test drive another TL (manual of course), and see what you think.. even if it means driving to another town (dealer) to do so, if this is possible.

I should add that this concept of an ECU adapting to the operator's driving style is not new at all. It's been around for about 20 years. I suspect manufacturers design the ECU's this way to allow the engines to deliver maximun fuel economy and minimum emissions under most conditions.

My 1988 Mustang LX 302 CID small block (that's a 5.0 liter for you liter lovers) has the Speed Density EEC-IV ECU and it was famous for "learning" operator driving habits. Taken to the drag strip, your warmup passes were a must to get the ECU in all out mode. Some guys would just disconnect the negative battery cable while in the pits and reconnect just before elimination runs.

chfields

I would like to have the manual, however, wife doesn't like them.

The issues I am concerned about are the "lag" in throttle response,although that has been well explained, I will just have to get used to it. The only other issue I have run across in this forum is the rattles. The car I test drove didn't have any, however, that does seem to be an issue with the TL.

I have also been considering the G35 Sedan and the Lexus IS350, however, my research to date has shown that neither of these cars have the outstanding features found in the TL. I am hoping they are able to address the rattle issue, but I will probably buy it even if they don't.

SouthernBoy

Got 'cha.

Both of mine are fine. I do get an occasional rattle from the driver's side tweeter in certain weather (as in the cooler months). But nothing like a few have experienced. Also, my wife's '05 is really good.. tight as can be.

mickey3c

I have experienced this in 3 different DBW cars. It's the nature of the beast from what I have experienced and what I have heard from other drivers..

SouthernBoy

Were they all automatics? As I wrote in an earlier response, I only notice this (and it is very slight) when I have been driving my manual '04 like a little old lady or have been in heavy stop and go traffic. All other times, it is right on with no lag or hesitation at all.

pettydw

Three things that can slow throttle response:

1. Starting from a stop on a hot day (factory intake ingests hot air when stopped).
2. Using low octane fuel.
3. A brand new engine (more friction).

Also, the TL's seem much faster once they have a few thousand miles. So much so, that I wonder if the engineers have put break-in limits into ECU to preserve the engine. This would be very easy to do with an electronic throttle. I lived overseas for awhile and some of the third world vehicles for sale came with throttle limiters built into the carbs that were removed after break-in, so the concept is not new.

fizzfazz

Have noticed this issue too. It's made worse when the lack of responsiveness reflexively causes me to push the pedal harder, only to have it finally kick in and really jerk the car. This is on an 06 Auto w/500 miles.

mickey3c

Yes they were all all automatics. It seemed there were times when there was no lag and times when you stomped on the gas for a few seconds and when you let up, the rpms would remain high for a second or two and then you would get an upshift.

This could depend on when you did it... dead stop, 20-40 mph, etc. I did not experience this in my last mechanical accelerator car. The electronics in the car seem to impact this a fair amount. I am sure all auto makers are shooting for the middle of the road programs that yield the most desired results and not always performance..

I would like to see a feature where you could change the settings, much like the old sport mode swirch some cars had. Sure they did not make a tremendous difference, but if you could change the performance characteristics of the engine and tranny, maybe it would resolve some of this issue.

SouthernBoy

"I would like to see a feature where you could change the settings, much like the old sport mode swirch some cars had. Sure they did not make a tremendous difference, but if you could change the performance characteristics of the engine and tranny, maybe it would resolve some of this issue."

This makes sense to me.