cdkruaya

Should I get the Manual or the Automatic. I want speed and want to beat teh G35's. I want to dust everything!!! I wish that I could buy black, but I live in Florida and am going to get the White with Camel Leather. PUMPED!

SouthernBoy

If you are a driving enthusiast. If you love the feel of a machine doing what you want it to do. If you never seem to tire of the driving experience and relish the trip in and trip home from work.. look for excuses to take it out. Then by all means, get a manual transmission in your new TL. While these "if" would hold true for most cars of interest, they are particularly true with this one. Drive both during your test drives and that should set aside any misgivings.

But if you have to ask, "auto or manual", if you would even consider an automatic transmission over a manual, then weigh your options carefully.

Tedanddenise

Since the NAVI TL has voice command capability, the normal reasons for getting automatic (other than the wife can't shift without ruining a clutch in 5K) are pretty much a thing of the past. Leaves both hands free to shift while you answer the cell phone, etc, so you can stir the gears. Judging from your question, I'd say you're fairly young and would enjoy the 6 speed. I have white diamond pearl with parchment and it's the best car I've ever owned - zero problems after 1.2K - even the tires are impressive (I know, just wait, they'll say) - have fun with your new car - my wife and I absolutely love ours.

boltjames

Get the automatic. They have electric refrigerators and washing machines too. Don't see many people running for the ice and the hand crank now do ya?

BJ

shawn744

it depends dude....you have to remember that you don't always get perfect sunny days in a good mood. you might wanna just cruise around with a coffee or---oops...new TL...(no food or drink)...bottom line, my friend is a real enthusieuist (spelling lol) he had a MINI, and traded it for an M3 auto....so....if you can picture yourself not minding a manual (ESP IN TRAFFIC)....there are times i've been in traffic that i've said thank God I don't have a manual.....good luck in your choice. BTW awesome color combo !

Intox1221

Manual comes with Brembo break callipers !!!! pretty decent....Auto doesnt... . I have an auto though and simply love it.

Ron A

It kind of depends on the kind of driving you are faced with each day. Many people who commute in stop and go traffic say they wanted the 6mt, but got the 5at because of that stop and go condition.

There are other considerations. When I was young I had stick for many years, but now it is easier for me with a/t, and besides, my wife doesn't know how to use a m/t. Not that she drives my car, but she might have to sometime.

What I am trying to say is it depends on your specific variables and desires. If you can live with it, you should get the 6mt. The TL deserves to be driven aggressively, and you can do that better and enjoy it more with the 6mt.

caball88

6MT super fun to drive, if you want absolute performance from the motor there is no substitute.

sleeks

I am one of those with a crappy commute. I went with the automatic. Also, the wife does not know how to drive stick, and with a baby on the way she will be driving it from time to time.

In the end, only you can answer that question. Automatic is better for some, Manual is better for some. Just depends on your situation.

ozone

get one of each.

seriously though, i got the automatic (for the convenience and for the wife)...but I think I'm going to keep my manual '97 M3 around for a while as well...there's nothing like a stick when you really love to drive.

caball88

e36 M3 is one of the most fun cars to drive. perfect mix of power and handling.

Aegir

6MT. Glad I could help.

mrunner

I have been in my 04 TL for 1 week, 6MT and love it. Last car was a 330Ci manual and this is every bit as fun, actually like the shift feel better.

fast-tl

I agree that you have to do a pros and cons deal.I'm leaning toward 6MT for my '05, but sometimes I want to drive our SUV which would put the wife in the TL...she's not a big fan of manuals. On the other hand, if you have more than one vehicle then you're not "stuck" with a manual, you can switch vehicles, which may be my justification since the Expedition isn't going anywhere. If the TL was our only vehicle, I'd consider those dead-tired days or lazy days cruising with a drink in one hand when I'd nt want to shift, soooo..

Tommy_boy

There is no White with Camel Int. Only parchement. sorry.. :P

icex731

6mt

Grit

You gotta think about how you use your car on a routine basis. I have ALWAYS had a stick, and I LOVE driving them. BUT, I'm always struggling to answer my Verizon (no Bluetooth) phone, hold my drink, shift, and inch forward in ever-changing traffic in San Diego. So, I went with the 5-AT. My reason for doing so was because I wanted total luxury, including the shifting.

So, consider how you will use the car MOST of the time, and make your decission based on that.

Good luck.

1SICKLEX

Auto tranny will blow before the manual. So I'd get the manual I guess.

SouthernBoy

Good point, 1SICKLEX. IF the economics of the thing is a part of taking his decision, then a manual wins hands down.. no question. SO much less expensive to own and operate.

SouthernBoy

You know, I've heard the argument about driving in heavy traffic with a manual and being able to do some things while you drive. Mind you, if these are concerns for the driver, then they are certainly valid arguments. I have driven manual transmissions in just about every kind of traffic pattern you can imagine over the past 40 years and It just never seemed to bother me. I just considered it part of the game. I currently own three vehicles (two joint with my wife); my new TL, a 2001 Ford Ranger pickup (fine little gem), and a 1996 BMW 328i. Only the BMW is an automatic and that's my wife's car. She is a fine driver of manual transmissions (I taught her many years ago), but she now prefers an automatic.

So of course, it all boils down to one's personal preferences, likes, and dislikes. We can discuss the merits of one over the other but really it's with what the buyer is most pleased. I would never even consider the purchase of a car, no matter how much it appealed to me in all the other areas, unless it came with a manual transmission. And there are those who feel the same about an automatic and I say that's just fine. And that's why I also say, if someone has to ask the question about whether to get one type of transmission or another, they may not be really committed to getting a manual and may be better off with an automatic.

one4thegipper

6mt

tsill

get the 6mt. brembo brakes for gods sakes. oh, the limited slip diff probably wouldn't suck either. i got the at for my wife and now i have to buy another tl cuz this car is so darn awesome i gotta have one. with the aforementioned options of course!

GreatAK

Save your money!!!!

fast-tl

Save your money? The stick and auto cost the same!

Aspector Gadget

Xpditor

Why are you shopping for a luxury car if you want a racer?

If you want to beat a G35 and that is your first priority, they're having a great sale right now on Porsche Boxter S's. Just a little bit more than the TL.

Or a Lotus Elise!

XP

Cue: BJ

cpurick

It's an 80-20 thing. You're looking for a car to perform exceptionally in a situation that will ultimately account for a small percentage of your driving, while you will be taking a hit for this in the majority of your driving.

Personally, I can't understand the "purist" argument for driving a stick in a FWD car anyway.

Finally, they may go out the door for the same price new, but you will *not* get as much for the 6MT when you sell it, and it will probably take twice as long to sell.

I have never seen a car over 200hp that suffered for having an automatic transmission. Even if you feel the performance difference is worth the cost, you are unlikely to ever find a buyer for your car who feels the same way.

SouthernBoy

To cpurick;

I must respectfully disagree with you on this.. at least in the area in which I live. While I do agree with you that for most FWD cars, a manual is never going to be as good as it is in a RWD car (an exception of note being the Ford SV Contour), such will still not eradicate the sheer pleasure of rowing the gears.

I live in a very affluent area and performance sedans with manual transmissions are the expectation, not the exception. BMW is a prime example of this.

So it kinda boils down to the location and the market within that location in terms of resale or trade. But if your driving pleasure insists upon the inclusion of a manual, one would be a fool to compromose that joy in a $35K car.

yield2s

5AT=VERY bad history in quality and reliability
6MT=very LITTLE history in quality and reliability




I'LL TAKE THE LATTER.

cpurick

Those are your words. How do we disagree?

Xpditor

Where in the world do you get your information? That is totally incorrect.

There has been a recall of early build automatics to add a small line that takes about an hour. That is to prevent a problem from developing.

I haven't heard anyone on this forum say that they personally have had a transmission failure.

Acuras overall reliability and quality is legendary in the industry. Check Consumer Reports and you will see way above average reliability except for two past years of Acura that had only "average" scores on the tranny. No "very bad" reported by hundreds of thousands of drivers.

I think you've been listening to the trolls too much.

XP

yield2s

No one here actually believes the the 04 has a redesigned tranny in it, do they?

SouthernBoy

To cpurick;

Just a little difference in your first and second paragraphs.. at least from my perspective. There is never a moment, under any driving condition of which I am aware, that I had wished I'd bought an automatic.

As for a purist driving a stick in a FWD car, while I prefer RWD over FWD, I will admit that FWD has come a long way in the last 20 years. And the best handlling car Ive ever owned.. was a front driver.. a 2000 Ford SVT Contour. How they managed to get a .92g in a 200 skid pad from that car in box stock condition is beyond me. It would beat the pants off of a 3-series in the twisties.. just needed more grunt for the straights. And one of the nicest things about that car was that you were never reminded from the way it handled, that it was FWD. Even my TL emits this knowledge under some conditions and I'm not talking about torque steer.

It's kinda like having a lot of power on tap. How many times have you heard someone tell you (assuming you've owned cars with, say, well over 300 HP), "What do you want all that power for? You can't use it anyway on the highways". When someone says that to me, I know I'm dealing with a person who is never going to understand because their whole perspective is totally different than mine. Not bad, just different. A car to them is a washing machine. A car to me is SO much more than that.

Anyway, I'm sure you and I aren't far apart because after all.. you own a TL, right? If so, good choice.

cpurick

"Roadholding" is not "handling."

Even well under .92g there are other characteristics inherent to FWD that render it inferior to RWD.
There's balance, feedback, stability, and the behavior that comes with exceeding the car's limits. All of these are markedly different -- and generally described as superior -- on a RWD car.

Even in your example -- where you suggest a Contour SVT could beat a 3-series through the slalom if only it had more torque -- you have to presume this torque could be added without negatively impacting handling. In reality that additional torque implies added weight in the drivetrain (drivetrain=front end), on a car that already rests nearly 2/3 of its weight on the front wheels.

cpurick

And so have automatic transmissions.

Drinking a coke. Drinking coffee. French fries. Donuts. Holding a map. Putting your hand on your wife's thigh. Driving with an injured hand/arm/leg. Starting on a hill with some butt-hole on your bumper. Getting a clutch replaced. Passing someone without having to disengage cruise control. Flooring it without having to look at the speedometer so you can figure out which gear to use. Stalling out. Stop-and-go, bumper-to-bumper traffic.

I love driving a stick shift -- more than half my cars (eight out of fourteen) have had them. But there are always cases where I could have used an automatic. Where I could see a difference in the performance *in everyday driving*, I've always chosen the stick. But everday driving -- to me, at least -- is not a matter of seeing how fast I can accelerate, who I can beat, or how fast I can go.

fast-tl

yield2s,
The later '04s have a transmission with the lubrication problem corrected internally, as I understand it. Earlier ones get the external plumbing of the cooling line. So, yes, there has been some redesign, which is why the later '04s are not subject to the recall.

SouthernBoy

To cpurick;

I agree 100% with your statement, "But everday driving -- to me, at least -- is not a matter of seeing how fast I can accelerate, who I can beat, or how fast I can go". I don't rag my cars and I stopped street racing many years ago (though I still have a little fun from time to time). Driving to me is a sheer pleasure and I look for different and longer ways home from work to enjoy my time in my car.

I don't do any of these things: "Drinking a coke. Drinking coffee. French fries. Donuts. Holding a map. Putting your hand on your wife's thigh." while driving.. well the thigh thing, yes at times. But there is no drinking or eating allowed in my car.. especially those things which could spill, be greasy, or cause sticky hands. So this doesn' apply to me, either.

"Starting on a hill with some butt-hole on your bumper." I never have a problem with this, either.

"Getting a clutch replaced"?? A clutch should last the life of the engine.. at least until a major teardown, like 200,000 plus miles. I've never had a clutch replaced that was due to my operation techniques.. had one replaced in my first car because an oil seal failed in the transfer case and leaked oil onto the assembly. Even my '66 SS 396/360 Chevelle, after 5 1/2 years and 83,000 miles with a bunch of street racing, would still break traction in all four gears. But then again, the clutches and transmissions used in American supercars of the mid-60's (GM in particular) were far better than anything from Japan or Germany.

"Passing someone without having to disengage cruise control". Cruise automatically disengages as soon as you start to depress the clutch.

"Flooring it without having to look at the speedometer so you can figure out which gear to use". Yep, you do need to do this.. or should anyway.

"Stalling out". You're right about this one.. especially with the TL. Low torque on the bottom end (just off idle) coupled with a very sensitive and early engaging clutch, and almost no sound from the engine does lend itself to stalling and I have done this several times this past week, but not for a few days, so I'm adjusting to this car.

"Stop-and-go, bumper-to-bumper traffic". This has never been a problem for me, but then again, I've stated that fact before. It just comes with the territory.

I have only purchased one personal car with an automatic and I did it because I thought I was going to tow a boat with it. As it turned out, we used my wife's car to tow. I almost replaced my Ranger pickup last summer with a Ford Escape SUV and if I had, it would have been an automatic. And the reason was because of some work I was doing on the side which would have required me to use the vehicle and an automatic would have been the smart choice for that endeavor. So you see, I am not entirely opposed to buying an automatic for a vehicle that is bought for a specific need. But for my personal driver's car, no.. it must be a manual.

Hey.. it all comes down to personal preferences anyway, and I see no problem whatsoever with that.

JetJock

6MT....if only for the Brembo's...the brakes alone make up for the hassle of shifting in traffic.

cpurick

And this is a personal preference:
"Personally, I can't understand the "purist" argument for driving a stick in a FWD car anyway."

BTW, the TL has a very good auto. Feels a lot like American muscle when underway, only with much more control. I did not find the 6MT to be anywhere near as precise as I would like. It, too, felt too much like American muscle, where I think most people would prefer their manual to feel more like a BMW than a Corvette. The Contour SVT felt more like the Bimmer, IMHO.

SouthernBoy

To cpurick;

I drove a 2002 Tl Type-S in March, 2001. I was not impressed (had my SVT Contour at the time). The torque converter never locked up, even at speeds over 60 MPH. I thought that a bit odd.

As for the shifting experience of the TL, I like it. It's the in the top 4 best I've ever owned (the afore-mentioned Chevelle with a Muncie M21, my '88 Mustang LX 302 CID with a BW T5, my SVT Contour, and now the TL). Very, very nice.

I've never driven a manual BMW either. The day we bought my wife's, all we drove were automatics, so I don't have a point of reference there.

I think it's great that there are so many fine machines out there again from which us gearheads can chose. It's like car heaven again.