Premium fuel is recommended for the 2004 Acura TL.

What are the implications of putting in other grades of gas in?

Thanks-

Hopeful owner of an Anthracite/Quartz 2004

 

I've seen this topic discussed for may different cars that require premium fuel.

The short answer is it will run on the regular and mid-grade fuels, but the engine is programed to run with premium and therefore it exploits that type of fuel to its maximum. That is, providing the best combustion possible (i.e. more power) with the fewest emissions.

Running the engine with a grade of fuel that isn't recommended will yield less power and possibly more pollution.

I don't know the specifics on the TL engine, but some can adapt to the fuel used (I think), but in most cases it is always best to use what is recommended by the manufacturer. That is true to the contrary also, you don't get any benefit using premium in a car that requires regular.

 

All modern engines use knock sensors and will retard the timing if they detect poor fuel and impending detonation. The advantage of running premium is the engine will produce the best power and get the best gas milage with premium, however you will not damage the engine by running a lower grade of fuel typically. Living in CA where the premium is 91 octane and stupidly expensive I would be tempted to run 89 in it, however I live in Lancaster, PA where the premium is 92 or 93 octane and only $1.60 a gallon so I will definately run prem in mine.

 

If you have to ask, get the Accord. The bottom line is more HP. So if you want to use regular get the V6 Accord or similar car.

 

in the long run it will cost you about the same, more at the pump for premium but worse gas millage on 87 so more money will have to be spent on it. if you can afford the car you can afford the extra few dollars to fill it

 

Acura's Brochure states "Gasoline with an octane number lower than 91 may be used, with reduced performance"

 

Okay, how about a major gas brand (Shell, Chevron, etc.) versus smaller or no-name gas? I live in CA and gas prices out here are ridiculous. I just found a gas station near my work that is a generic brand, but they sell premium (~$1.77) for less than most other stations' regular (~$1.79). Also, the station shows up as a "Shell" station on my Navi. Plus, the labels on the pumps look exactly like Shell's, just without the logos. Could it be using Shell gasoline, just without the brand? Anyone out there care to comment on their experiences with generic branded gas?

 

I've not had problems with "generics." To me, gas is gas - a comodity. I've heard that the base gas is the same for all companies, but some add additives based on the final destination.

I can tell you that here in FL, the same tankers serve all the gas stations. I think a bigger question is the gas station itself. Older ones may have rust, water or sediment built up in their tanks. Remember that gas stations have filters on their pumps. Slow flow = clogged filter, while super fast flow = either new filter or no filter at all.

I had a friend who worked at a convenient store. Every night, he checked the level of the tanks with a big stick that he coated with Clorox powder (with bleach). I can't imagine the buildup (or the effect of the bleach on your engine)...

 

This thread has reminded me of an issue I never have been able to resolve...

Why does using lower octane gasoline in an engine that requires premium lower fuel economy?

Also, the Accord supposedly has 240hp w/ regular gas, but gains an extra 10hp w/ premium. This fact would seem to suggest that the knock sensors on this car are always retarding the timing to work optimally with the lower octane recommended, but when premium fuel is detected, the engine is able to run at its full potential. If true, it would appear that Honda is sacrificing both fuel economy and performance in the Accord in order for the car to be rated to run on regular. Knowing Honda, I doubt this is the case (they have been known to underrate engines, but NEVER to sacrifice fuel economy).

My personal thought is that one gets reduced performance when using lower-than-recommended octane gas, but fuel economy probably does not suffer appreciably. If it did, I highly doubt Honda/Acura would refrain from mentioning this info in the manual, and I doubt they would have tweaked the 3.0L V6 in the Accord to underperform both its power and fuel economy potential.

I don't currently know any of the science behind fuel economy and recommended octane, though, so if anyone has any info, I would be grateful...

 

If you have to ask how much gas costs then this is probably not the right car for you (price range). That said there are options in CA for less expensive but good gas for your cars. I buy at Costco. Save an average of 10-15 cents per gallon. Recommend you get a Costco membership and buy their gas to compromise and still be able to afford the TL. Just my two cents worth!

 

How well would adding a bottle of octane booster work? It would have to cost $3/bottle for a 15 gallon tank to add $0.20 to the price of regular gas, but then it might be the same price as premium.

You could mix regular (87 octane here) and premium (93 octane) to get a 90 octane tank of gas for the mid-grade (which is 89 octane) price or less.

 

The reason the Accord will run regular is that it has a lower compression ratio and therefore will not knock on regular. The TL is getting up there at 11:1 unless you want the knock sensor retarding the timing all the time. If you can afford the car, you can afford the right gas!

 

Octanes don't mix. If you try to put 2 diifferent ones in your tank at the same time, the engine anti-knocking system will keep adjusting itself for what ever is coming through the fuel line at that moment. Adding octane booster to regular gas rather than just using premuim to begin with makes barely any $ sense at all. The TL's compression ratio of 11 (or any ratio over 10 for that matter) basically means
Premium Fuel Only

 

If you had to buy premium gas from a brand name station, which one would you buy regardless of price? I've heard that Chevron is "better" gasoline because of the additives that they include in the gas. Do you think this is true or just more marketing hype?

 

For the branded gasolines, you'll never go wrong buying Chevron. The additive they use, Techron, has been proven to keep your engines cleaner. They even sell the additive in a bottle. They only hype that I don't buy is the one from Shell. They claim that you'll get better mileage from using their gas. They may be true but if it's only a matter of a few few yards a tank, what's the point. I say this because they make no claim as to what you can expect for mpg improvement.

 

yea i always run with the premium. even though its kinda of expensive. but then again i have an Acura TL-s.

 

Using lower octane in your tl results in fewer mpg because of the way the computer adjusts the timing to avoid pre-ignition(knocking). It retards the timing of the spark so that the air/fuel mixture is ignited stightly later in the compression cycle than it would be with the higher octane the engine was designed to use for optimum power and mpg..makes the engine use energy less efficiently.

 

Or is it earlier? Been a long time since I left engineering school!

 

If you cant afford the minimal difference in fuel costs then you cant afford this car.

 

:banghead: Rich people don't get rich by wasting money. I think it's great that people QUESTION things, instead of simply believing everything they read at face value. Yeah, it really is important to run premium fuel.. but instead of saying "POOR GHETTO MORON BUY THE EXTRA TEN CENTS GAS!! U SUQ!!!!" :tflamer: explain why it's important..like a lot of people did.

 

I also get the impression some of the people here focus more on their car than say owning a home. That is their choice of course and if I did not have a family I would most likely fit that bill as well.

They may not have the disposable income and really must consider whether is really pays for the better gas. I have always used the 89 Octane gas, until now, as I could not justify better gas on my previous POS. I am thankful for the post and I do believe it all washes out in the end.

 

All engines that have high compression need high octane rated gasonline. The higher the octane, the more stable it is at higher pressures. With lower octane fuels, the gasoline will pre detonate and ping or knock. This can happen at really high rpm or really low rpm. If you've ever mistakenly started to drive away in 3rd gear and heard your engine lag down and make that funny noise, then you know what pre-detonation sounds like.
To reemphasize, most project cars that involve turbochargers run 110 octane Sunoco race fuel because of the high boost ( or higher compression)
I Hope I helped clarify this a little better. Bottom line, buy the best gas.

 

OUCH!!! This is my first stickshift car and I've already caused the enigne to "ping/knock" a number of times while starting out in first by not giving enough gas. Is my new engine screwed?

 

I beg to differ! I can afford this car and it's our second car. Just because I can afford it doesn't mean I will let the oil companies f me in the a with higher gas prices just because I live in a particular region. I will seek out my cheapest available option to fill her up. Like another poster said, rich people don't get rich by wasting their money. I've got mortage expenses, baby expenses, etc...so I refuse to let the oil companies take advantage of me.

 

K.I.S.S.
Keep It Simple Stupid!

It will run like SHIX!

 

Should we take up a collection for bigbluu so he doesnt have to drive all over town to save 30cents a week on gas?

 

Just feed the car premium fuel, and use good quality (preferably synthetic) motor oil. Ditto for good quality tires. The car is worth it!

-r

 

Since you have all the money ,maybe you could finance this yourself ... You do have ALL the MONEY right..


You must make like 300k a year ...... until I make that ... I will think GAS is expensive.


Hey ...all of you ganging up on Big Blue the family man that knows how to manage his money ... tell us ALL how DEEP your pocket's are~!

 

Yes, please do! I will forward you my paypal account info. I need money for 18" rims and designer baby diapers.

 

That Girl- my pockets are deep enough that Im not going to sweat the difference in fuel costs between reg and premium.I only wish that in the peoples republic of Kanada the difference between reg and premium was only 10cents /gal.Here its closer to 45cents diff /imperial gallon.

BigBluu-I like your rebuttal!

 

Like someone else mentioned, give the car what it needs, if u cheap out, it might mess you up in the long run..

Anyways premium will give u better MPG, and that just might be worth the better price, actually the miles will be the same price technically..

 

I'm not trying to decide who makes more money a year or manages their monies better, but octane ratings do serve a purpose.


If you disagree with me, than the choice is yours to decide differently.


As for me, the difference between 89 and 93 octane is on 10 cents.


Don't shoot :ar15: the messenger, I'm just saying 11:1 compression is pretty high for low grade fuel, that's all

 

okay...i think it's my fault. i went off on a different tangent than the initial thread. just to clarify, i am not cheaping out for lower octane fuel. my question was is there a difference between a generic premium octane brand versus a name brand fuel. i just wanted to know if people using Costco, Kwik Serv, etc. for longs periods of time have had any negative experiences.

 

I've used Costco 93 (I'm guessing 91 in your area) since I bought my '02 TL-S in May '01, and I haven't had any problems. Most gas is bought as "base stock" at terminals, then the particular additive package is dumped into it, to suit the brand. The additives aren't nearly as different as you've been lead to believe.

What's more important is to use a station that sells a LOT of gas. The lighter hydrocarbons evaporate pretty quickly, so you'll often get a "better running" gas from a station that turns their tanks fairly quickly.

Just to clarify- the '04 engine is 11:1. By any standard, that's high. Acura has tuned the PCM fairly aggressively to make use of that compression, with the right fuel. As such, while the PCM can adapt to lower grade fuels, it's not really a good idea, IMO. Pre-ignition causes the burn to start too early, and that rattling you hear is the pressure of combustion actually pushing the piston back down, AGAINST the direction of rotation, before it reaches TDC. This puts enormous spike loads on the rod and main bearings, beyond which the oil wedge can handle, which will accelerate the wear, and in some cases, cause metal-metal contact in the bearing.
I should have taken pictures of the bearings in an engine I recently tore down. It's in my '80 Z28, and while getting the timing and carburetion (remember those) worked out, I went through periods of sustained knocking. The bottom half of the main bearings is completely missing the top layer of material.

Still want to save 10c/gal and go for 89?

Oh yeah- fuel economy drops when timing is retarded, because the burn reaches peak pressure too late in the cycle. Consider the gas as two separate pieces for a second- the octane chains, and the heptane chains. 87 octane is 87% octane, 13% heptane. Heptane tends to ignite very quickly under lower pressure conditions. As such, as compression increases, the heptane will tend to burn very early in the cycle, which incites the octane burn, which is where the knock comes from. By retarding the timing, it doesn't effect the heptane burn much, but does start the majority burn of octane later. Now, an engine will be most efficient if peak cylinder pressure (regardless of throttle position) occurs at 14-18* past TDC on the power stroke. Over-advanced timing, or pre-ignition, exerts force on the crank in the wrong direction (even though peak pressure will still occur after TDC, just too early after), which reduces efficiency, and increases fuel consumption for a given amount of work. Late timing causes the peak cylinder pressure to occur too late in the cycle, when cylinder volume is larger, thus peak pressure lower, thus you get less "work" out of that charge. Thus, you burn more fuel to get the car down the road at a given speed.

Somebody might want to do a Google search to back that up, though. That's all from memory.

Todd

 

SoCal is full of people who drive a $50,000 (leased) Mercedes but live in a studio apartment.

 

T Ho,
Excellent description ! My hats off to you..

 

Well .. GAS is an issue for me right now ...kind -of .. I am STILL in a rental since sep 15 th accident ... And the SUV I am driving LOVES gas... the mileage per gallon is terrible.

But I can see that at 10 cents a gallon and say if you fill your tank and it's 20 gallons thats only 2.00 dollars ,yes that's not bad .. I have never even noticed how many gallons it takes to fill any tank! I just PUMP . I am so not into car's ..I just want them to crank , ride well and be safe to drive.

I only commented because I felt bad for bigbluu ,but he takes this stuff well ...........yes that was a great comeback bigbluu~

 

you wouldn't want to save a buck or 2 on cheap gas for ur TL right?

 

I think of it like this.. 1) yes, if you can afford the car, you can afford the gas. 2) True, you can get richer by being frugal. 3) The extra cost per tank for 93 over 87/89 amounts to.. hmm a Beer plus tip at a bar per week, I can do that for my Acura.

T-Ho: well done. we could go into more with flame front propogation speed of 87 versus 93, but you covered it well

And people spend a few bux on a StarBucks, but not on gas.. oh well to each his/her own

Good Day, it's time for lunch.

 

I just use my AAA Platinum Card and get 5% back on all my gas purchases.