Z Factor

There is no law to the best of my knowledge requiring a "chime" , yet every car does have some type of visual and/or audible warning or reminder.



"I'll ask again, how can disabling a chime be a basis for a law suit?"


:lol1: :lol2: :lol1: :lol2:

You must be joking, right?

TooLate

Actually you are quite wrong. My A8 does not have any type of visual or audible warning. My daughters 2003 Passat doesn't either. Many, many new cars don't intrude on a persons life.

So basically you are stating thangs as facts when you are 100% wrong So are you lying or just ignorant?

As for me joking, no I am not.
Maybe I should have wrote "strong basis".
I can sue you right now for posting in this thread, I really can.
But are you going to stop posting here just because I could sue you for it?
That would be pretty stupid, just like not disabling a chime in a car.

Z Factor

I just finished responding to you in the other thread where you chose to use terms like "ignorant", and I see you are up to the same thing here. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, and assuming you are in a foul mood at the moment, I will just say that I am trying to be helpful, and would suggest that you do the same without the personal attacks. We can agree to disagree in the end without insulting each other.

Now to the points you made. I am very surprised to hear that several cars you are familiar with do not have some type of reminder/warning device regarding seatbelts. Every vehicle that I've owned since the mid 80's has had either a visual and or audible reminder.

I do not personally consider a reminder to abide by the law, or to be safe an "intrusion on a persons life", anymore than a posted speed limit, or a warning sticker within the car regarding safe operation of the vehicle.

As to the lawsuit issue, while not being an attorney, I've seen enough civil trials to know that lawyers would pounce on the fact that a dealership (read deep pockets) would have purposely disabled a safety feature of the vehicle from the factory.
Keeping in mind that they also use these tactics to at least negotiate large settlements, you can be sure that the dealership would pay dearly regardless of whether or not the suit ever went to a jury. The liability insurance carrier of the dealership would also make them pay dearly as well.

I hope this has clarified my position, and will serve to resolve any questions you might have on this subject.

Have a Safe and Happy New Year

svtmike

Actually there is. A chime operating within the 8 seconds from the time a key is turned to the "on" or "start" positions is a Federal requirement for compliance with the Motor Vehicle Safety Standard.

It's in Title 49, Chapter 301 of the United States Code.

Mike

TooLate

Section 30124. Buzzers indicating nonuse of safety belts

" A motor vehicle safety standard prescribed under this chapter may
not require or allow a manufacturer to comply with the standard by
using a safety belt interlock designed to prevent starting or
operating a motor vehicle if an occupant is not using a safety belt
or a buzzer designed to indicate a safety belt is not in use,
except a buzzer that operates only during the 8-second period after
the ignition is turned to the ''start'' or ''on'' position.
"

That buzzer goes off whether the seatbelt is on or not in my car, probably also in the TL.
So fooling the computer into thinking the seatbelt is buckled will not break that law or any other law.

Next...

svtmike

With all due respect, that's not what you asked. You simply asked if there was a law requiring a chime, and I responded that there is.

Mike

TooLate

Excelent, thanks for looking it up for me. You answered my question well.
But it still does not come into play with this situation.
Thanks again for taking the time to answer my question.

RJC RSX

bottom line is, you should always wear your seatbelt, and for those short trips where you insist not bothering with a seatbelt (for me maybe driving the car around the court), they should be short enough that it does not bother you.

svtmike

Section 30122 of Title 49 addresses whether a dealer can disable a required safety device. The language is legalese and quite convoluted, and so a bit hard to interpret, but my read is that the dealer (or any mechanic) can legally disable a starter interlock or buzzer that runs constantly, but not a buzzer that runs in the first 8 seconds.

Mike

TooLate

That's your opinion. Other people don't share your opinion and are just trying to get some information.

RJC RSX

no, i said "bottom line", not "in my opinion" because i stated fact

TooLate

Great, thanks for that info as well.

I'd like to make it clear that when I say "disable the chime" I am not talking about unplugging the device that makes the noise (that would be too easy), I am talking about disabling the system that makes the device make a sound when the seatbelt is unbuckled.
I find the chime in cars to be important, especially on advanced cars like the TL. It can tell you to turn your lights off or disengage your parking brake, I would never disable the chime itself.

But I would disable whatever is making the chime beep when the seatbelt is unbuckled. And since that chime goes off for the first 8 seconds whether you are wearing your seatbelt or not, it will not break the laws that you mentioned.

TooLate

BOTTOM LINE, I AM GOD, THIS IS A FACT.

Is that true? I said "bottom line", I stated it as a fact.

NO! Of course it is not a fact, just like your first post isn't a fact.

You have no basis to conclude what should bother me or anyone else on this forum, and saying that you do is ignorance.

RJC RSX

you are not god, therefore that is not a fact.

you should wear a seatbelt, this is a fact.

a little beeping sound for several seconds should not bother you, this is a fact.

you are a tool, this is my opinion.

TooLate

Atleast you came clear with your flaming and lack of intelligence.

But you are still a little confused with this fact & opinion deal. What's a matter, did the short bus drive away without you this morning??

RJC RSX

no flamming, just pointing out your faulty logic. happy new year

svtmike

The chime stops when the belt is fastened, and doesn't sound at all if the seat belt is already fastened when the key is turned on. So disabling the 8-second seatbelt warning buzzer would break that law, regardless of the buzzer's use for other warning conditions.

This would be a more reasonable discussion if you checked your facts before hammering away at your keyboard. Perhaps you need to get your own talk radio show, though. Your methods work well there.

Mike

RJC RSX

yeah, understanding facts is always a good thing

TooLate

Here is what I originally said:Notice the "probably" meaning that I didn't check the TL yet.
I also did not include the "probably" in the second post that I mentioned it (I figured you would remember, I was wrong).

So now you are right, 100% correct in that it would be against the law for the dealer to do that. I have no problem admitting that I am wrong (but I wouldn't mind other people saying that the original 8 second entry chime goes off when the seatbelt is buckled as well for back-up).

But that still leaves us in a thread full of people on soapboxes and high horses telling the thread start in their high and mighty vioces that he shouldn't do something, instead of just answering the simple question that he asked.

As for the radio show, I'm up for it!

TooLate

A good thing that you should work on, you're still posting your clear opinions as fact.

Should I be comfortable in my current chair? You seem to be the only person allowed to make that decision for all of us.

RJC RSX

This is like people asking how to roll back their odometers. On Club RSX, this thread would be locked by now, freeing the site owners of potential liability.

TooLate

Sorry, but the thread starter is NOT asking how to perform an illegal act, so do NOT compare it to that.

Any laws stated in this thread are referring to the manufacturer, not the owner.

As I stated before, you can legally take the seatbelts and airbags and roof off your car if you so desire, maybe your intentions are to use it on the track? Whatever.

He can legally disable the chime so he is not asking about illegal activities.

Z Factor

Since other posters are taking the time to educate you, have the courtesy not to get personal with them by calling their posts ignorant.

I myself was puzzled by your comment about the lack of devices in your A8, and found this regarding it.



http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2...f/03-26872.pdf



Also, read Standard #208, and it will give you some more insight.

Based on reading other documents as well, it would seem that visual/audible warnings are considered safety features that the NHTSA has established for cars to be driven in America.

RJC RSX

i did say potential liability. the point is, it's questionable legally, and if there's any question at all, it would be wise from a owner's perspective to not permit these discussions. in other words, our "harping" is justified. then again, i wouldn't want to interfer with darwin...

rets

I really hope you can find a way to let the system chime 8 second in the beginning, then make itself disable afterwards. As well as your vehicle still understands you're not fastening the seatbelt(just disable the chime only), so the airbags won't give your the false inflation.

I agree ppl's opinions, always buckle-up, it's the natural response ppl should have. We cannot force you to use it, it's your right to do whatever you prefer to doing. It's free country to you.





Happy New Year.

svtmike

No need really. I went and checked it in my car before I made the claim.

Mike

svtmike

I don't really have time to review three-page long threads for subtle wording changes; I apologize for my non-photographic memory.

It is legal for him to disable the devices himself, that is true. And it would be legal for the dealer to do it under certain circumstances (like preparing a vehicle for off-road racing). For anyone to actually give advice, though, well, people have been sued and lost for far less foolish things in this country. I personally wouldn't provide the info even if I knew, but that's just me being selfish.

I have no soapbox or high horse to get on with this topic, although I put my belt on every time I get in the car, whether I'm going two doors down or across the state; it's just habit now, and I think a good habit.

Everyone have a safe and happy new year. Don't drink and drive, and watch out for those who might.

Mike

Zeuser

This is strange for a TL but understandable in other cars. I disabled the seatbelt warning light and chime in my '93 del sol when I went racing (autocrossing). The reason is that I had a 4 point harness which was legal for auto-xing but not for street use. So I had to switch back and forth between the factory seatbelt and racing harness.

Part of my race prep was to disable the seatbelt warning and the way it was done in my del sol is to go under the seat and unplug the wire.

I'm pretty sure this isn't the same in a TL because of the electric seat but but it should give you some ideas. hint hint... find the electrical diagrams for the TL.

Still, why would you want a 4 point in a TL?

JohnDoe2

What is annoying about the seatbelt chime is that it doesn't come on until you are in motion. It is NOT safe to put on a seatbelt while you are driving.

The chime should come on as soon as the car is in gear and turn off when the car is in motion to avoid distracting the driver.

TLud

I had a Ford rent car a year ago, and the damn thing would beep at me for not having my seatbelt on when the car was in park (not sure if Fords still have this feature). Now that pissed me off. Between the annoyance of that buzzer and the remote possibility of someone crashing into me while parked in a lot, I'll take my chances on the kamikaze driver.

I have to admit that when I'm wearing a suit and I make the three minute drive from my office to the courthouse or to lunch, I'd rather not wear the seatbelt. I don't have my TL yet, but having something beeping would actually force me to wear my seatbelt all the time, which in my opinion is a good thing.

Studies suggest that most accidents happen on the short trips, where people are less likely to wear their seatbelts. My gf is also an attorney, who works for a firm handling auto insurance cases. Her personal experiences, although not scientific, seem to support such studies. So, even though my current car doesn't come equipped with a reminder chime, I usually have one in the passenger seat.

-=¤willhaven¤=-

its safe if you are driving by yourself for 7 minutes going slow.

but what about that drunk driver in the dark with his lights off who T-bones you when he is going 40+. youll wish you had your seatbelt on then.

4 friends got T-boned by a car with their lights off last year. 3 of them had their seatbelts on, 1 didnt... guess who had to go to the hospital?

they were also like 2 minutes from work and just went to get something to eat.

stevenlevin

Just hold down the mileage reset button when it starts to buzz. It turns off.