coop1018

Have they started Oxidizing the gas now since it is getting cold. My 6MT 04 is starting to get pretty crappy gas mileage, and it just started to happen this week.

insmanblue

It started on Nov. 1 in Oregon. This "cleaner buring fuel" is supposed to reduce mileage about 10%.

coop1018

Yea that sounds about right....instead of 22 mile per gallon, I am making 20 miles per gallon

clewttu

i havent heard of this, is it nationwide?

JPSMAN

The gasoline is oxygenated, not oxidized

There have been some previous posts in regards to this. Generally the gas mileage will go down, but only slightly. Here is a great link explaining the process if anyone is interested.



http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuel...ne/default.asp

SouthernBoy

No, it is not nationwide. When I lived in God-foresaken Arlington, VA, the fuel over there was oxygenated. At the time, I had my 1988 Mustang LX 302CID. I noted a 14% drop in fuel economy with the attendant increase in power.

The pumps at the stations in Prince William Country (where I now live) do not have the sticker about oxygenating the fuel between Nov 1 and the end of February. At least, not in my part of the county.

fla-tls

Ummm - what's the point of "cleaner burning fuel" if you have to use 10% more of it?

SouthernBoy

To fla-tls;

I used to wonder the same thing. However, with today's cars, this is pretty much an exercise in the ridiculous. Engines have never been cleaner burning and it's getting better all the time. In 1996, my Ford Contour SE produced fewer contaminants with the engine running than my 1966 SS 396/360 L34 Chevelle did with the engine off. And that was 10 model years ago! The EPA is living in the past and needs to wake up and smell the exhaust.

Repecat

Thanks for the link. Boy, that's more than I ever wanted to know about oxygenated fuel.

Road Rage

It ios called politics, and the politics of power.

Oxygenates are generally alcohols, and ADM and other large corporate entities are huge suppliers of ethanol for fuel, and likely some of the oxygenates used in the "clean" fuels. ADM was a huge contributor to both of Bill Clinton's campaigns, and has donated a ton to Congress, and through expensive lobbying efforts.

Politicians love alcohols - it makes them look green to the voting constituencies who are big on styole over substance in this matter - mostly soccer moms, and unmarried females.


And few of the voters are smart enough to figure it out, as you did, that it is a big scam.

There are also side-effects of oxygenated fuel that technically-inclined folks like me know all too well from what we have seen in the field:
1) Oxygenates produce very stubborn, tarry deposits on fuel injectors, intake valves, and even the tops of the pistons. Unless removed, they can affect the spray pattern, leaning to a less clean burn, less fuel economy per unit of measure, and the driveability problems some experience. Valve depoists abosrb fuel, causing a false read by the O2 sensors which must enrich the mixture - more fuel consumed and more emissions.
2) California futher went the route of MTBE - not only was it a fraud, but it has been shown to have caused pollution of lakes and streams, far beyond the effects of simple "noirmal" fuels.


The simple fact is that the alcohols used in oxygentaed gasoline produce less thermal output when burned - it does not take a genius to understand that it will therefore take more fuel to cover the same distance, and since emissions are a function of fuel consumed over time, some, if not most, of the "benefits" of the oxygenated fuel are in reality "funny money".

We are the ones who get ripped - we pay more in fuel costs, and either pay someone to clean our fuel systems, or have to put in expensive aftermarket cleaners to do the job. (See my RR Journal on fuel additives).

JackSprat01

Is there any way to know where this fuel is sold? What cities or states?

JPSMAN

In VA, it is usually posted on the pump (at least the ones I have seen in the DC area), with a very small label. I will sometimes go slightly out of the way and fill up in the next county down from Fairfax that does not use the EPA mix and pay for less expensive gas by $.10 per gallon.

RR gave a great synopsis of the politics and technical aspects of oxygenated gas.

subinf

Its already happened in all of CA with the gas. At least at the 76 stations.

Road Rage

I know Richmond has it - I drive to powhatan County to get non-reformulated gas in the winter, when the fuel is at its worst.

Adding Sta-Bil is a good idea for those of you who reduce your miles in the Winter - and wait until the fuels are switched over - many discount places will get "leftover" summer gas, whose volatility differs from what is needed when it gets cold.

coop1018

Philadelphia area has it....that is where I am and I always dread the winter months becuase of it.

Diver

SouthernBoy, I think that's the problem. They should stop smelling the exhaust !

avs007

Yeah, in these parts (Pacific NW), they are required by law to display a large sticker in a conspicuous location, saying if and how the fuel is oxygenated. I'm also glad I live across the river in Washington. Vancouver is the largest suburb of Portland, (larger than every other city in Oregon actually), but doesn't require oxygenated gas, like the tri-county area in Oregon. I always go out of my way to always fill up with non-oxygenated gas. Around here, it seems 76 and Exxon always have oxygenated gas, even if they aren't required too.

Repecat

Interesting comment. I usually buy Union 76 or Chevron and have never used oxygenated fuel. I guess us folks on the north side of the Columbia River are lucky.

insmanblue

That is interesting. I just figured that all the states used oxygenated gas in the winter time. I travel to Vancouver about twice a week now, and will make it a point to fuel up there. What stations have you found that do not carry the oxygenated gas in Vancouver?

SouthernBoy

To Diver;

Yeah, you're probably right about that.

Champcar1

Been doing it in Colorado for years.

avs007

I'm not sure which part of vancouver you are going through, as I don't spend much time on the part of Vancouver by I-5. (I live closer to I-205).

But anyways, from what I've seen, Shell has never had oxygenated gas. I have seen the chevron on Mill Plain use oxygenated gas, but I've never seen any of the other Chevrons with it. Every 76 station I see oxygenates their gas, as does Exxon. The Fred Meyer on 164th also doesn't have oxygenated gas. In fact, I actually found their gas to be strangely good. I've been getting gas their, and been getting better mileage than when I fill up at Shell or Chevron.

Don't forget that you have to fill the gas yourself in Washington, I've seen many cars with Oregon plates sit in their cars for a very long time, and even honk at the cashier, or storm into the minimart. It's ok, I've also seen washingtonians go to oregon, and try to pump their own gas, only to have a gas attendent come screaming out of the minimart.

insmanblue

Thanks for the info. I'll look for a Shell station while in Vancouver. I hate the idea of oxygenated gas in my tank. I know that Washington is a state where you pump your own gas. It is a bit strange to pump your own gas if your not used to it.