Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

God damn bench racers.

Pierce knows that he beat the driver, not the car. He's not claiming that his TL can beat all M3's. Put down the damn magazines and go out racing or something.

av6ent

That's a reality of what I stated not mags races.
My comment was not intent for a flame, but common now . What's the point of posting that kill when in reality we all know of what E46 M3 can do He needs to be supercharged to stay next to him and beat it but not much unless he's running over 7psi.

ndx2

@ all the bimmer owners here calling BS and whatnot... so typical.

Why do some of you find it so hard to believe? Where I live (CO, high altitude), a stock Legacy GT could give M3's a run for its money, and probably beat it up in the mountains (10k+ ft.).

I was dicking around with my buddy who has a 99 M3 w/ IHE and high perf summer rubbers in my 6MT w/ CAI and EL42's and I could keep up with him without even really trying, and easily start pulling in certain gears and speed. Hard to believe? Oh yeah, especially considering his car took on a few stock Z's and won by a couple of car lengths. I wouldn't have believed this myself since I'm from MI where n/a motors get plenty of oxygen.

I bet those of you who are calling BS either: 1, don't have 6MT (especially modded like Pierce's) or 2, have 6MT but haven't seen what it's like pushing the limits of our 3rd and 4th gears.

I've almost redlined my 3rd and took my 4th gear up to 120, and it's ridiculous (for a 4dr, fwd fam sedan ). I love the way our 3rd to 4th shift when you go WOT and rev it high... so quick and smooth!

Nice run, Pierce.

brahtw8

ROFL at yourself.

We are comparing NA to NA, so the high-altitude advantage of a turbo is not an issue.

A 1999 M3 has 240 hp and is roughly equal in a straight line to a six-speed TL. I have driven many E36 M3s and encountered a few on the road while driving my TL.

I owned a 2004 TL 6MT for 45000 miles and pushed it as hard as anyone on this board pushes a car, including well into triple digits. I am hardly some BMW-centric anti-Honda person.

Take it from someone who drives at Road America and other road courses multiple times per year, and whose favorite vehicle remains the Acura NSX (which I still own, BTW), the E46 M3 is faster than the 2004 TL, at any speed.

An exhaust and intake don't change that fact, even if they provide the 18 hp. the manufacturers apparently claim.

PIERCE@ACURA-O.P.

I wasn't going to continue this banter but you inspired me brahtw8...


ok-I can appreciate that you run a road course a few times a year-I've run a few in various cars myself and have 100 or so passes at the drag strip(maybe 50 in the TLhttp://www.imranxp.com/tl/tlracing.mpeg) but how can you make a blanket statement like that?? Here is an independant review of an e46 M3(europeancarweb.com) and although it displays slower times than other reviews-it shows the variance POSSIBLE in different cars, drivers etc..

possible explantaion why I was able to pull on one from 80-120...

"Only two issues arose when driving fast with SMG. First, it ignores downshift requests rather than storing them. If the downshift paddle is pulled too early in braking to be completed without over-revving the engine, the request is ignored. When getting back on the throttle, the driver finds he/she is still in the higher gear--which quickly leads to the other issue: column- versus wheel-mounted shift paddles. In a very tight, autocross-type turn, the wheel may be upside down, switching which side to pull to shift up or down. So when intending to shift from third to second, it becomes easy to inadvertently shift to fourth instead. With column-mounted paddles, they would be exactly where they always are."

"The impressive thing about the manual transmission car on the dragstrip was the ease of driving it. Having barely driven an E46 M3 before the test, our driver's fourth run was just about perfect, with a ****2.47-sec. 60-ft time.**** He then backed it up with two more basically identical runs. The M3 was fast and easy to get off the line, despite not being intended for this. Our driver was also fast, with a total time spent shifting of just 0.87 sec. I was worried the test would end with a clutch explosion, but no sign of trouble was detected before the car went home.

check the TL's 60' at 2.217 http://memimage.cardomain.net/member...58_13_full.jpg

...I think thats a little faster than 2.47

well here are 7 0-60 runs with the M3



Table 1: Acceleration
0-60 ft 0-30 mph 0-60 mph 1/4-mile 1/4-mile
(sec.) (sec.) (sec.) (sec.) (mph)
Manual 2.47 2.22 *5.22* 13.40 105.4
Automated 1 3.40 3.83 *7.65* 15.27 99.4
Automated 3 2.61 2.41 *5.85* 14.13 101.8
Automated 5 2.50 2.31 *5.47* 13.67 104.1
Sequential 1 2.62 2.42 *5.99* 14.08 102.1
Sequential 5 2.60 2.40 *5.51* 13.66 104.6
Sequential 6 2.54 2.34 *5.46* 13.61 105.0


**my TL has registered as low as 5.42 seconds 0-60(with many runs in the 5.5 area)with a beltronics fx2 performance meter(i will be happy to take a digital photo of the screens if you doubt.)

That is faster than 6 of the 7 timed M3 runs above^


Have you never beaten a car with more power before??? It can and does happen my friend.

For the 10th time-I know the e46 M3 is a more powerful and all around faster car-however to say it will beat a TL 100% of the time in any situation with any driver is not true-My Tl beat one last week...

Link to Above M3 Review

http://www.europeancarweb.com/tech/0212ec_bmwtech/

TCMS

BMW DOESNT USE THE NEW RATING SYSTEM.


None the less german manufacturers will not be harmed as badly as japanese manufacturers because german's are held to a higher standard in their country.

brahtw8

My post was in response to the statements made by ndx2. I think you can understand why his post got the reaction it did.

We are already on the same page.

Nobody was talking about the driver issue.

I said "the E46 M3 is faster than the 2004 TL, at any speed." That is in reference to the car only, not the driver.

Other than that, I think you have probably found the worst 60' time in history for an E46 M3.

PIERCE@ACURA-O.P.

I know-how about 7 of them in the same test-their driver needs some serious help..

Pierce

PIERCE@ACURA-O.P.

sorry man-I'm a little cranky today....

nikko

Germans have been using SAE rating for years now!

TCMS

Honestly, I know you come here to toot your horn because you own a BMW, but you need to learn to not post when you're opening yourself up for embarassment.

The SAE method is not new, it's a modification of the SAE NET process that is the "new" standard.

The Germans have not been using it, and currently dont.

However, because of German standards those German companies are required to actually put out some low % of error in their claims, so unlike the companies in the United States that can get away with it, German car companies can not bullshit their numbers.


EDIT: WTF, where did his post go?

Mike

he deleted it.

PIERCE@ACURA-O.P.

that is world class






























































lol!

PIERCE@ACURA-O.P.

your avatar rocks-eom

nikko

First af all....I don't need to learn anything...not from you. I wasn't 100% sure about that statement therefore I deleted it, plain and simple.
How do you know germans are not using the new J1349 power and torque certification procedure?
Can you tell me where you learnt that?

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

Believe it or not, some people make a habit out of doing a lot of research on cars on their free time. While they may not be able to produce a link to a wonderful web site pertaining to all of your questions and demands, it is from their collective knowledge from the many different sources they have utilized.

I, myself, am one of those people. And while you may be barking orders to produce proof, "I" know that BMW doesn't use the new revision. And obviously so does TCMS.

Go do your own research, prepare yourself for an educated, and worhty of our time, debate, then come back.

kthanksbye

P.S. Venture over to the 3G TL forum and search for a thread where many members, including myself, have put in our collective thoughts and facts on the SAE rating issue.

nikko

You're missing the point...totally. I normally do a lot of research but I missed this SAE subject. I asked a question (not barked) and obviously I was expecting an answer. The fact that you serve me this lame "go do your own research" doesn't make you any smarter. If you really know the answer share it with me.
Try to be more polite and stop picking on people asking questions. The reason why we are here is to help each other by sharing knowledge when it comes to it.