ill make this short and simple.

take two cars that are very close to each other in the 1/4 mile. (STOCK VS STOCK)

lets say one car runs 13.9 and the other a 13.6

now, put both these cars in a 20mph roll up to like 100 or so.

wouldnt this come down to a drivers race?

just curious, when i read some street encounters i see people BASH on someone for saying they beat a car who in (STOCK VS STOCK) is only .3 secs faster.

i have no track experience but lots of street runs.

i would think this is a drivers race correct? depending on who hits the pedal first and the shifting.

can you really say that if you hit the gas first with the car thats .3 secs slower at the 1/4, and both drivers are comprobable the car thats .3 secs faster will still catch n walk you?

 

sorry for the stupid tittle. didnt really know how to put it

 

IMO, anything within 1 sec would be a drivers race, but thats not to say "Oh my car is faster than this car"

For example, I have a friend with a fully bolted RSX that I used to run almost every weekend when I was stock. 9/10 times I would beat him but I would lose to him if i didn't hear a honk, if he got the jump, if i had trouble shifting, or couldn't get enough traction. So because of my loses would you say that the RSX is the faster car even though I consistently beat him?

One notable kill(s) I had before was a STI with intake/exhaust. I would consistently beat him from a dig/roll all the time. I thought I was king shit and had this "factory freak" until I raced his friends bone stock STI (who knew how to drive) that put a hurting on my ego LOL. Pretty much unless you have multiple "clean runs" which is hard to do in the street, any car has a possiblity of beating another.

Also when going on rolls, depending on some cars, powerband plays a huge roll.

 

Depends on who has bigger balls

 

I agree with you adrian. I have beat down plenty of cars that are faster than mine. It all comes down the reaction time and how good the driver is. For an example I beat a Newer Eclipse GT 3.8L V6 6MT. He couldn't launch that thing for the life of him. By 100MPH I had about 2-3 cars on him.

 

Yea, any car within 1 second should be a semi-drivers race. I'd say between 0.5 seconds would be a great race on the street.

 

A full second's a lot. Half a second or less is more of a driver's race. They say a person really can't discern a performance difference of < 3/10's from a seat of the pants perspective.

 

Don't focus on ET, guys. You need to be focusing on MPH. ET is highly variable to the launch capability. MPH on the otherhand, hardly varies at all. You could run a 14.2@100mph with a 2.1 60' in a TL 6MT or a 14.6@100mph with a 2.4 60'.

Cars like an STI rely heavily on their launching ability. The stock STI might do a 13.1@102mph with a low 1.8 60'. Put an STI against a IS350 from a stop and the IS is going to smoked (about 4 cars or so) in the first 100', but as the race progresses, the IS350 will ever so slowly close the gap. By the end of the 1/4 mile, the IS350 would probably be within 2.5 to 3 cars and really closing in fast after 100mph. The STI would be doing 102mph and the IS350 doing 104mph. Put the same cars in a roll race and the IS350 will slowly walk the STI.

MPH dictates ET potential. ET is the skill and traction and highly variable. It always makes me laugh reading stories from TL owners talking about how crazy the TL topend is, but a 6MT TL is a 100mph 1/4 mile car. It's going to get walked from any roll against a car capable of 101mph+ 1/4 mile MPHs.

 

yup. its a drivers race.

people exaggerate when they win. i guess its the excitement..... ive seen street runs where one claims he walked on the other but when the video appears they barely took a step. most of them win by a car length or a car and a half.

 

[quote=Dave_B;11329601

It always makes me laugh reading stories from TL owners talking about how crazy the TL topend is, but a 6MT TL is a 100mph 1/4 mile car. It's going to get walked from any roll against a car capable of 101mph+ 1/4 mile MPHs.

[/quote]


Why are you so mean!!


lol jk


I've raced plenty of cars (from a roll - 350Z/G35coupe&sedan/Evo/Eclipse turbo/etc) that trap more than 100mph and successfully beat a lot of them...except that insanely fast 6MT 540i

Driver skill is the most important factor and some people just don't know how to fuckin drive lol and I still think the TL has a pretty good top end

 

i agree with most the post exept the "1 SECOND BEING A SEMI DRIVERS" one sec is a lot. i was reading an encounter on another forum where a stock s2000 takes on a 350z "HR" i guess the new engine putting out 306hp or so. the guy claims to have gotten infront then kept it like that till a good 100+mph.

lots of people go the raise the "BS FLAG" and say that even if hed gotten the jump, the 350 would have reeled him in and walked him.

sounds pretty stupid. i can see if they started even the 350 winning but, if the other car go the jump it already has more momentum, rpms are up and a couple tenths of a second head start. so how can you say a stock Z will "reel him in and walk him". not TOO familiar with Zs 1/4 times of MPH but, last i remember they were high 13s

 

crap. i take it back (top comment) the hr models are running mid to low 13s. aaaahhhh. ill have to stick to my same year (slower) 350s

 

LOL funny you ^

 

I have seen 13.1@109MPH for the HR 350Z stock!

 

Guys, one second is a few buslengths. The margin gets larger as the cars get faster. An 11.0 car vs a 10.0 car would not be considered a race. A boring high 13 vs high 14 second race would be closer but still huge.

Like was already mentioned, mph is what you want to look at when racing from a roll even though that's not real racing.

 

I respect your knowledge and such, but it's not that simple and straight forward.

One sec is made up of several points in a race and MPH is just one of those points . . . skillful execution on every point by the driver and the cars setup factor in to that second and when one or more of those points is messed up on, a second faster is no guarantee of a win . . . that's why even a race from a roll is in fact a real race . . it's also why a second between 2 cars is not a guaranteed bus length . . . I know I've been racing from more than 30yrs and I've seen all sorts of situations . . that and the unknown outcome is why there's why racing at any level generates excitiment . .

whether or not you share in that view is your opinion . . and whether you don't care for racing from a roll . . MPH at the track is no hard indicator as to how the cars will fair in a roll . . . a couple of factors are gearing and launch . . and take my personal case with the TLS . . the first time at the track it ran 14.7s at 93MPH . . there were guys running 14.7/8s and 97/98MPH . . well some thought I was just quick off the line and wouldn't hang with them from a roll (30, 40, 50 or 80) well guess what . . . I hung with and pulled most of them . . so it's all racing as anything can go wrong . . and expecially at the track where there are more things to go wrong . . from the time the cars are prep'd, approach the tree to the time they cross the beam at the finish . . and while you find 13sec cars boring, it's all really a personal choice . . there are no rules, only opinions . . many Muscle Cars only ran 14 sec . . some ran 15 secs . . and at the track -the ones I know over - they require safety checks for all cars (while many are glossed over) and cars running 13 sec or faster require drivers to wear safety helments as 13s are considered fast enough to be worthy of additional safety precautions . . and more rules come in to play as the times are lowered and speeds increased . .

anyway, so while you have a faster car and that's don't dis us guys who are slower . . remember, there are always faster cars out there and I know as I've been around some of the fastest over my many years . . so

Here's a link to a former bosses Top Fuel Dragester he sponsored and his teenage daughter drove . . . man I miss those days in the pit . . the smell of nitro . . note the reference to 300MPH as being pretty fast . . imagine that anything less is considered slow

http://www.nytimes.com/1998/10/18/bu...hanks-dad.html

Ruf -

 

I'll agree that mph doesn't always determine the outcome in a roll race. In fact I've argued that point with friends for years. However, it's the only data point from a 1/4 run that can be used to estimate the outcome. I can remember racing a certain Viper around here at the track when I was close to stock. He had a few mph on me at the track but from a random 30mph roll, I pulled him to 100mph but that's more of the exception, not the rule.

Keep in mind that if you have two cars that trap within a few mph of one another and one floors it first from a roll, by the time the other driver reacts, the first car may have a few mph on him. You have to overcome that initial mph gain of the other car just to hold even.

People don't realize how big of an advantage getting a 1 second jump means. That's part of the reason when we had money races and someone wanted space I would back up behind the starting line, not let him pull forward in front of it.

It's not just an opinion that roll racing is not real racing. It's for people who want the car to do all the work and aren't confident in their launching skills or the car just sucks at getting off the line. The FWD Honda crowd invented that crap around here. I'm not opposed to a random roll encounter on the street but when you plan out and setup a race from a roll, you're scared to run it from a dig plain and simple. I guarantee if these TLs could 60' like my car you guys would be singing a different tune. You don't change the rules to fit the car, you change the car to fit the rules. I'm no snob to FWD, afterall I own a TL too and my GN should be in the mid to low 130mph traps but I still don't do roll races. There's also the safetly factor. If you're already moving at 60mph and nail it, you're past the speed limit in a second or two and speeds get out of control quickly.

 

- ah, that may be true for some people, but not all of us . . as for me, it is mostly about the car in this case, why you ask? well it's a great indicator of how all those mods you've put money and time into are paying off . . nothing like really testing your car out like going up against a car that is technically faster . . and the hope is the person can drive it well enough to be a good measure . . that's why you'll really only see me posting kills on cars that are faster than mine would be . . . stock . . that said, a roll still takes some skill/knowledge on shifting . . even for an automatic . . you'd be surprised, well maybe not you, but there are so many people that think you just punch it and go . . there's nothing like shifting an auto like a manual.

- as for your point about you doing a roll race . . well that is true . . but I do miss the days of doing topend racing from a 90mph punch . . it sounds crazy, and with today's traffic it is . . but back in my day we had no trouble finding spots where we could run them up as fast as we wanted . . . used to freak guys out when I'd punch it at 90 and break the tires loose with a nice chirp and then hitting 125 and chirping them again as I shifted in to 3rd . . . ah, those were crazy fun days, but even with the TLS it's hard to find clear space to get it over 110 . . 90-100 is usually it . . . and only on 3 lane roads (mean 3 one way and 3 the other, divided)

Anyway, I hope to find out in the next several weeks if I can break in to those 'slow 13s' sorry, couldn't resist.

Ruf

 

I didn't mean to make fun of 13 second cars. I'm old enough to remember when a 13 flat car would kill 99% of the cars on the road. My first run at the track was a 16.5 and after learning how to drive after literally 20 runs (we rented the track, GN vs Mustang shootout) I dot it down to a 13.8 with no changes to the bone stock car.

I understand wanting to see if your mods worked and taking traction out of the equation. I'm used to setting stuff up and meeting at a certain spot to do it and those are only from a dig.

I also like to run cars that have a chance at beating me. It's not as much fun to walk an easy kill......unless they're cocky. I want to run the car for all it's worth. In fact, the best run we ever had was in my dad's 10.0 GN running a supercharged BBC in a tiny '30s street rod. That was the all time closest street race I've ever been a part of. Two 10.0 cars going at it and to this day I don't know who won that race. Even though I'm not sure if we won or not, it was the most memorable. People these days are too afraid of losing, almost as if all of their self worth is determined by a race. The guys, especially the Vette crowd that pick on me then make a quick right turn off the street after the race is over to avoid pulling up next to me at the next light. If someone outruns me, I would be excited to see what's under the hood. I think I'm going way off topic here, I guess that's what no sleep in 24 hours will do to you lol.

 

- lol yeah, I love to beat 'status' cars

anyway, have a good one.

Ruf

 

both ruf87 n IHATECARS made good points. and thats exactly what i wanted to know. if two very simiral cars run, and the 2/10 seconds slower car takes off first. the other most likely wont be catching up unless the driver efs up.

since i purchased the s2000 ive noticed i get different cars trying to race me. before with the TL is was civics some 4 door sports sedans like SRT, EVO, exct.

now its more like muscle cars including camaros, mustangs and a bunch of HUGE TRUCKS. the worst part, i get more than enough CORVETTES taunting me!

too bad their way out of my league... by no means do i back down tho... if i lose i lose. theyre the pussies for pickin on a car tey KNOW they can walk. OH WELL, time for a turbo!

 

I like your attitude. Take your losses and come back stronger next time. Just be careful, it can be addictive.

 

Roll races take into account a lot of factors that aren't as important as a race from a dig. It's a combination of power under the curve, transmission, and speed you start the race from that are all hard to determine from a 1/4 mile time and/or speed.

I had been in a 3 way race with 2 friends that have totally different cars than me, but all trap within a few mph of each other at the track.

Me: 1984 Camaro with a worked 350; 150hp nitrous; TH700R4; street tires; 3.42 gears; running 11.4 at 127mph.

Marc: 1999 C5 Hardtop with a 525hp Cartek 346ci LS1; 6 speed; 4.11 gears; drag radials; 10.8 at 128mph.

Phil: 1971 Superbee with a 500ci worked over wedge; 727; 4.11 gears; street slicks; 10.5 at 130mph.

The race: 3 lane highway 45mph on up; typical...

The outcome: Both the Superbee and Camaro pull away from the Vette extremely fast - the Superbee won by a car and a 1/2, the Vette about 12 cars back.

The lesson: all three cars were at optimal speeds to be in the power curve; the issue of power under the curve prevailed over high rpms, perfect gearing, and off the line traction; and the fact that lighter cars with small blocks and LS motors can mix it up with heavy big block cars from a roll.

 

. . addictive?? nah . .

Ruf

 

LOL. If I could take all the money back I've spent racing I could buy a house with it. But the memories especially as a 17yr old with a semi-fast car are priceless.

 

Lucky bastard....at 17 I still walk to school....Hell, I didn't get my first car till the second year of college.