TLarchetype

Hi all, this is my 1st post here although I have been lurking for some time gathering a lot of very useful information about the '04 TL from this forum. Seems like a lot of people are quite thrilled with their car and all the cool features it offers. However, I'm getting a bit concerned over some of the quality issues that have surfaced (i.e. drooping headliner, rattles). I was wondering if those issues are more prevalent with early '04 TL's. Perhaps Honda was able to improve their QC by now? Any recent '04 TL's that still have such quality issues? I plan on placing an order when July comes around. Just bracing myself for what I might have to contend with.

Thanks a bunch!

02cls-04tl

I have had mine since feb. and I love it. Most of the complaints are not even valid, some of the ppl in this forum would complain about anything if they could. The car is beautiful and one of the best values arould I am very pleased.

Novice

I've had my TL since Jan and think it is a great car. I really think it all depends on how sensitive you are to all the minor problems that have been mentioned in this forum (of course, there are some more serious issues out there such as the check enhine light on, etc). For example, I just noticed the headliner falling. But, if I didn't read about it here, I wouldn't have noticed. I intentionally open the sun roof all the way back and looked for a piece of double sided tape-sure enough, it was separated. I had a rattle issue where the wind deflector is located. Someone here in this forum told me that all I need is a piece of foam to fix the problem. Sure enough, after spending only 1 min, this problem is gone. Now, I have a clicking rattle in the back-but I'd rather live with it than having those dealer mechanics put all those finger prints all over.

BarryH

You have to make your own decision. Keep in mind forums tend to be skewed toward the negative. I personally look at the number of incidents reported by a broad cross section of people on a forum as an indicator as to how likely a problem is to occur. There are people here who have posted that their cars have been problem free since delivery. Honda doesn't have a good track record of mid-course corrections. The last gen TL/CL had a sunroof problem that was never corrected at the factory in three years of production. Dealers were provided a kit which included clear plastic tape to apply only when a customer complained. I had two Acura's and thought they were good cars for the money.

boltjames

42,000 - The number of TL's being driven in the US.

5,000 - The number of TL owners that frequent the internet on a daily basis.

2,500 - The number of TL owners that know how to use a search engine.

500 - The number of TL owners that discovered this website.

495 - The number of TL owners on this website that love their vehicle.

5 - The number of TL owners on this forum who are unhappy.

The TL's a great car designed for 40 year old executives. This forum is filled with 25 year old's extending their credit limits, modding their cars, changing their tires, frequenting race tracks, scorching BMW's on local streets, and running 0-50 in seconds while doing the minivan-mom slalom between stop signs. Their cars rattle. What a shock. Driving the car the way it's designed to be driven by who it's designed to be driven by produces nothing but broad smiles.

BJ

rets

Months ago, someone posted a news with a photo in which a lady was standing in front of 04TL and said how pround of herself being able to work with her projects and led her Quality Control Team to make sure 04TL doing well...

I don't know what she's doing... I said again she should be one of guys in Acura being blamed.

dannodaman

I've had mine for almost a month now and it's been GREAT! It's an awesome car to drive and no problems for me so far (knock on the wooden table)... Make sure you get the one with NAVI... Very cool gadget to have

Eduardo

D-oh! I guess I am out of the TL's demographics. I'm a 32 year old male with a Master's degree who will not mod his future automobile ( except for Acura-approved modifications {nee accessories} ). Well, I am interested in the Falken tires but only because I hope to take my TL to Big Bear for skiing in the winter months.

grktl

I might be young and no i didn't extend my credit to purchase this vehicle. I have a job that pays me good money, own 2 houses. This doesn't mean i deserve a car with poor quality. My paint is awful. 2000 miles on it and i have chips that my previous car of 6 years never saw. The bumpers dont' match, they were both not aligned correctly. I'm sorry but they do have quality issues at Acura. I love the car (looks and features), but get real they have quality issues. Acura knows this and they will correct it. If i was you i would purchase this car but just wait until 05.

Sorry, but i'm just tired of people blaming the young for all the problems. I purchased the car with my money, and if i have issues I have the right to complain. If Acura has the right to take 35000, i have the right to complain. It's not just the young who are having issues..

grktl

Eduardo

I agree..

texas_acura

tlarchetype,

i am just like you, i lurked around for a while to do my homework while i was deciding on a car to buy. like you, i too was overwhelmed with what i had been reading on here. pay attention though, you will find that it's the same people over and over talking about the same problems over and over. i have come to the conclusion that there were a few minor problems early on, but they were minor and have been fixed. in my shopping/test driving, i have been to 6 different dealers and driven six different cars and i couldn't pick any problems out on any of them

i haven't bought yet, i almost did today, but i am going to within the next week. good luck with your research.

also, along the lines of what boltjames said below...the same people who have many of these problems are drivers that take their cars to the track on the weekends, abuse them, and then blame all of their problems on Acura. they will argue and say that racing doesn't hurt anything, but they are misinformed.

-tx

Nittany Lion

Didn't think you had it in ya BJ, great post!

EZ

grktl

I have never taken any of my cars racing. Anyways, how can racing a car cause the bumpers not to match or be aligned correctly??

Stewie

I was sold on the TL the day it came out, but I just wasn't quite ready to buy a car yet.
Then I found this site and got scared to death to buy one because of all the "problems".
Finally I just pulled the trigger and bought my car almost two weeks ago.
So far I have had no problems at all and I love the car.

You have to remember that EVERY car site like this is full of people who complain about their cars for legitimate reasons and nit picky ones. Don't let it sway you. Buying any car is a crapshoot but I'll still take my chances with a Honda over just about anything else.

s54

FWIW - I like the car but broke my own rule about never getting a first year model. With the new models out only a few months away, IMHO, you should wait if you can. I wish I had, and perhaps they will address the aggravating little things that have added up to an unpleasant experience in my first (and last) Acura.

Of course you should make your own decision, but while nowhere near lemon-law status, I have experienced problems with my TL that I never experienced with BMWs and Infinitis with 60k miles.

Good luck,

S

texas_acura

go look at this poll....

http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84057

BarryH

So you're saying that people shouldn't drive their 270HP sport sedan with a 6-speed manual and Brembo brakes too aggressively because if they do it might break?

texas_acura

i think what boltjames is getting at, and i agree is that.....there is a big difference between "aggresive driving" and say running the quarter mile over and over again.

Rcat

The way I look at it is,if you you want a "boy racer" dont buy the TL..its the wrong car for you.Buy the G35 or a BMW 330,I also think that $35,000 for a TL is a good deal,Damm a truck cost that much now days,and s54..whatever,sell it and move on.

grktl

Why sell and lose money? If he has issues then he has the right to complain and get Acura to step up and fix his issues. It's a great car and i'm sure all the issues will be fixed next year.

Bobzmcishl

I've had my TL for two months now and haven't had a single problem other than scraping the right rim which was my fault. I also have a 91 Honda which has been the most reliable car I have ever owned, which is why I purchased an Acura. I also own a 540i which is a great car but extremely expensive to own. I was so impressed with the TL I purchased one even though I feel FWD cars are inferior in handling. I live in California and don't need FWD wet weather handling.

boltjames

No, no one is reporting it's breaking. What people are "reporting" are things like rattles and vibrations and other nit-picky little boo-hoos. Most, not all, of the people reporting these interior noises are youngsters driving very un-realistically and aggressively.

"The car is very difficult to control when I'm doing 90 mph in my favorite turn on I-285 on my 18" Yoko's!"

"I can't believe how many rattles I'm hearing when I'm flying over railroad crossings at 75 mph!"

"This morning, after I downshifted my automatic transmission from 5th to 3rd at 88 mph in the fast lane on the LIE, I scratched my keyfob!"

"I Zaino'd my car and glued an A-Spec badge to my trunk yet the car still doesn't handle any differently. Why?"

It's 100% normal for this type of behavior in a forum like this. People who are unhappy tend to post a lot more than those who are satisfied. What's happening is that since the majority of the posts are of this nature, noob's who come in here get a glance at the newest postings and are getting scared off. I myself almost didn't buy a TL because of this forum. Occassionally, someone needs to set the record straight.

BJ

DavidNJ

Actually, Honda had 25-year olds that modify their cars in their sights. That is why there is an A-Type and a 6-speed manual. Two thinks your Mercedes dealer won't be offering. Even the E55 is an automatic only. With an air suspension that is not easy to modify.

That said, the perception of quality comes in many forms. Features and how well they work is one. BMW's much critized iDrive is an example. At this point Audi, Acura, and Infiniti all have iDrive like interfaces. And they all work better than BMW's.

Working as expected is another. Toyota has a Bluetooth phone interface on the Lexus LS430 and on the Prius, yet you can't dial the phone while driving!!! Not good. Acura is in this stew also. Its Bluetooth phone has a rather poor level of integration with the car. It can only be dialed by voice!!! Try that with three noisy passengers...like a spouse and two in-laws.

We're not done yet...

A feature may not work because it was underdesigned. MB is now being critized for electrical problems. Nice features. And they work. However, they don't work over the range of manufacturing tolerances and operational issues the cars are subjected to.

And design may not just be in the feature itself. The manufacturing design has to also be there. The TL has bumpers that don't align correctly, are always off by a shade (the Corvette has this problem too), and paint that is prone to chipping. IMHO the paint looks awfully cheap also. The engineers who designed how to assemble the car screwed up here. For all their problems, I have yet to see an MW W211 E-class with a misaligned or mismatching bumper. I have seen MB bumpers repainted in the dealer's lot, and they matched! Also MB introduced a ceramic impregrnated clear coat to reduce chipping and swirl marks. Kind of the opposite direction from here Honda seems to be heading.

Double stick tape that fails and bottom dwelling tires are other examples.

Make that American Honda. My '04, and previously my '00, Honda S2000 has perfectly fitting bumpers that are an exact color match and not a chip to be found anywhere. And the paint, in all of the colors, looks deep and rich.

And the last problem is quality control during manufacture. Did the people and machines doing the work do it right? Around 1980, I saw new Cadillac's with paint so thin the primer showed through! They were quickly losing their claim to be "The Standard of the World". A claim the rightly help for quite some time.

So in summary, the Acura TL has some things right (smooth motor, great interior styling, lots of features for the price, good suspension tuning) and somethings wrong (manufacturing design weaknesses, cheap material specifications (tires, paint), half implemented features), putting it in the pack, however not ahead of it.

David

neuronbob

You are right on target, BJ. I totally agree that forums tend to concentrate negative comments. I peruse other car forums, though this is my favorite for obvious reasons, I've been around hear for 2 1/2 years. All the forums, from G35driver.com to clublexus.com, have their naysayers and complaints about service and rattles and engines (though not as many complaints about transmissions as in our 2G TL forum).

TLarchetype, you would be doing a disservice to yourself if you didn't test drive the car yourself and make your own decision. As I've said to others, I am an early adopter of this car. I bought VIN # 0016XX on 10/3/03, before the official release of the car. Because of my experience, I am probably one of the biggest cheerleaders for the 2004 TL on this site (disclaimer). The issues I've had with the car are minor, and within the realm of issues one would have with any car. I didn't have the same issues others had with the tires until I had 10k miles on the car, and I promptly switched because the EL42s are truly, really CRAP. I have had a few, minor rattles that worked themselves out. I have been tricked twice into thinking I had a headliner rattle, only to discover both times that the passenger's side belt buckle rattling; folks on this site indicated that there's a holder for the buckle and it works famously. Other than that, I have had lots of fun with the car. It is reliable, quiet, handles great, and can have either a supple ride (stock) or a sporty ride (A-spec, Comptech/Eibach/Tein springs). I absolutely love the experince I've had with this car.

CLICK HERE for my 6-month review of the car from April, which has links to my regular updates on the car. I feel it's my duty as an early adopter to keep people appraised as to what happens on my car.

Stewie

If you want to fel better about buying the TL just go check out the VW forum.
After reading that you'll have no problem with the Acura.
Yet people still buy VW's. Hmmm..

TLarchetype

Thanks, guys, for all the interesting stuff here so far! I have no intention to audition for "The Fast and the Furious 3" with this car. I just want a reliable car with a touch of sport and luxury with better gas mileage than my Xterra all for the best price possible (and fun to drive too ). Most of the driving will be freeway commuting. Holding out for the '05 is an option, depending on what additions or changes will be made whenever Honda releases those details. I doubt there will be much. I have test driven a 5AT (dealer didn't have any 6MT on the lot at the time) and had a very positive impression, though I still prefer the stick. I'll probably test drive more TL's at other dealerships in the area, hopefully some 6MT's, now that I know more from these forums than I did before.

Neuronbob, that's an excellent job of honest reporting of your experiences with your TL. It doesn't look like that there are any serious issues, life threatening or very costly, other than some annoyances that different people will have different levels of tolerance for. The poll that texas_acura linked to is pretty convincing as well. I think I feel more comfortable now to order the '04 if that's what I decide to do in the next few weeks.