crxb

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...8&page=1&pp=25


Interesting bimmerfest thread: TL or BMW?

not a bash as u might think

Neorick

Different opinion for every driver why they select a specific car. I've always wanted a BMW but the reliability kept me away from it.

Maybe next car would be a BMW but for now I am enjoying the TL.

Hugh9269

I love BMW's, one of the greatest car makes, if not the best! But I cannont stomach $40,000+ for a New 330i, nor can I afford it. Come on, if we could afford any car would we drive a TL or a 330i? maybe no... If they enjoy driving around in rush hour traffice and enjoy the car that much, more power to them. My friend has a 95' M3, great ride! But day to day living, I love my TL and the price and specs, It is second to none....

crxb

I agree, the last BMW I could afford was a 72 2002.


My TL may not be a BMW but

a: I can afford it.

b: in my opinion a great value

Hiei

Let me tell you all these. I have a 2005 M3 Competition package. The reliability of BMW is horrible. 500 miles, the radio shut down and won't come on. The hard vinyl dashboard melted and need to be replaced.

I have a 1994 Legend Coupe from my high school days, 2003 NSX, and 2003 CL Type S; all these cars didn't give me as much problem as my current M3.

california-usa

The only reason I did not get a 05 fully loaded BMW 330 over a TL was that in the back of my head I was thinking...okay as with all my other Accords I am confident that a new TL will be able to reach at least 150K without surprising me with some highly expensive repair bills along the way. On the other hand I have heard too many horror stories ( to put it lightly ) in regards to both electrical and mechanical problems with most 3 series BMW's from both friends and family members. Simply put...peace of mind is priceless.

mclarenf3387

Some of the people in that thread are idiots, but some are spot on.

It all depends on what you want. You'll never get the excitment factor out of a TL like you can out of a BMW, but the BMW is not the end-all be-all of cars either.

Dkrudop

Cost factor of a similarly-equipped BMW is ridiculous compared to the TL, especially when you factor in the reliability aspect. The guy who was talking about "refrigerators" may change his mind when he's putting out beaucoup $$ for repairs beyond warranty.

Granted, BMW's are great driving vehicles...but that implies that you HAVE the car in your possession to be ABLE to drive it. I like the value for the dollar provided by the TL...and I enjoy the luxury and amenities that Acura provides as STANDARD (not big-bucks options).

But hey.....different strokes for different folks.....if people enjoy the BMW, that's great...I think the great majority of us in here enjoy our TL's and are pleased with the road we've chosen. I know I am!

noychris

RC51TOFUMAN

I luv the TL ..the only thing it LACKS....is the enjoyable RWD........
that is the ONLY difference in my opinion.......otherwise bmw can suck ****

honda_s2k

I chose the TL over the 330i because of the vast difference in both the reliability numbers and maintenance costs. With the exception of Porsche, Acura/Honda blows away the German competition.

In my opinion, the Acura TL is a much better overall value when compared to equivalent models from Audi, BMW, or MB.

The NAV is second to none in my opinion. The drive train is as refined as it gets. The rattles in my car have been dealt with and it is extremely quiet even with incredible ELS powered off.

The RWD 330i and A6 are all over the TL in handling but in a New England snowy winter, I'd rather have FWD with Nokians on all fours.

TLyoung'un

O_O"
Everyone keeps referring to this forum to verify all the TL problems...

Bravo whiners

honda_s2k

WTF are you talking about?

TLyoung'un

huh??? Did you click on the link??

i'm seriously lost.. what are you confused about

crxb

other threads on bimmerfest.com will show they also have "whiners"

as any forum for any product (cars, cameras, computers) will show: u see several problem posts out weighing the positive

- if your happy u tend not to take the time to post a thread.

HondaOnly

Except for the way it drives, there's nothing BMW has over the TL. You're basically paying for the engine, the handling and the privilege of being seen in a BMW. All those people in that other thread who keep saying to drive the two and then decide aren't very smart shoppers. If all that mattered about a car was how it drives, I would be driving a G35 instead of a TL. But there's more to a car than the way it drives, how it looks and its prestige factor, especially if you plan to keep it for the long haul. I've met plenty of BMW buyers who switched to Acura because they want an all-around good car, not just a car that's fun to drive or impresses their neighbors. And they want a car where they feel like they're getting their money's worth.

TLyoung'un

agree 100% but i've seen some threads on here that are really nitpicky

Batman-JGII

For me it’s all about value and bang for the buck. It’s always interesting to me that most folks compare the TL to the 3 series, which I think is an unfair comparison unless you classify a car based on price and not functionality. The 3 series BMWs to me are considered sport coupes and sport sedans. The 5 series on the other hand gets you into the true sport luxury category and if you price out 5 series that’s equally equipped to a TL you can really see the value.

I have nothing against BMWs but I still think Acuras are some of the best all around vehicles on the market today. I would also agree with others in this thread that it all depends on what your driving factors are for purchasing a vehicle.

SouthernBoy

Last year when I was in the market to replace my '02 Altima SE, I had narrowed my selection down to a few possibles. In no particular order, they were: the M3 BMW, the Jaguar 3.0 X-type, the Cadillac CTS-V, and the TL.

My wife had a '96 328i that seemed to love going to the shop on a regular basis and wading through out finances while doing this. So the M3 lost out.

While I love the Ford Dura-Tec engine (having had two Contours with this engine), I have heard of poor quality in other areas with the Jaguar.. besides, no manual, no buy for me.

That left the CTS-V and the TL and I agonized over this decision. I still love, and lust after, the CTS-V and could afford this car, but the TL won out and I'm not at all disappointed.

mclarenf3387

Thats the most cluster-fuck comparison I've seen. You're comparing a 55K two door (base M3) to a 30k 4 door TL. The CTS-Vis an entire different class of car as well. THe only fair comparison is the Jag, but even then they list for a lot more than the TL, or even a 3 series depending on options.

SouthernBoy

Shows how much you know about what I may happen to consider in a personal driving machine, which is to say, nothing.

For your information, it's my business and my money and my decision to take. I was also considering the new Ford Focus ZX4 ST. Currently, I happen to like the new Mustang and have always liked the Corvette Z06 since its introduction. Since I can afford any of these cars, I have the option and luxury of taking whatever decision I may decide to take at the time I'm ready to buy. Frankly, I could care less what some dumb f--k might think otherwise.

And for the record, I was not comparing these cars.. rather I was considering them based entirely upon my desires at the time.

Saintor

You are referring to a 9 yrs old car to establish a new car reliability? Everything is covered first 4yrs/50000 miles, so it is not a big deal for the first years.

SouthernBoy

To Saintor;

You're right, but this car did seem to have a proclivity for trips to the shop. That and some strange and really nutsy design characteristics. This all kinda soured me on BMW's. Plus that fact that the engine in the CTS-V is far more trustworthy and, in my opinion, better than the one found in the M3. Really hard to beat the small block Chevy.

I really can't speak for any one particular reason why I chose to go with the TL. But I can very easily say that I'm not one bit sorry I did. Yes, I would consider the CTS-V the next time around, but right now, I see myself hanging on to my TL for a while.

If I had to offer just one word to describe the TL, I suspect it would be "capable". While not a barn stormer or a super handler, the TL meets and actually exceeds the wants and needs of most drivers and of most driving conditions and situations. This is not at all a bad place to be.

SouthernBoy

I could nit pick my TL to find and list some things which I would like to see improved upon or changed, but they really did a fine job designing this car to fit a niche and a market. So my hat's off to them.

The best compliment I can give a car is, does it put a smile on my face when I drive it.. under any and all conditions, and does it entertain me?

Because I am very particular about my personal driving machines, just about every car I've owned has to... must fill that bill. The TL does this, as did my two Contours ('96 SE and a 2000 SVT), my '88 Mustang LX 302 CID, my '66 SS396/360 Chevelle, and numerous others. When all is said and done, in all honesty, I have to say that the TL is just about on top of the heap when viewed from every angle.

djemx2

I was about to buy a 2006 325i 6-spd for around 36k... told the salesman finance me and lets do it...BMW financing interest was high and so was all the other loan companies the dealer dealt with.

I got frustrated after being there for 5 hours and walked down the street and bought my first love...my 05 TL with Navi. Needless to say I'm very happy with my purchase. From size of the car, "toys" the TL came with and overall the value that my 4th Honda/Acura has provided me.

BTW... The free maintenance seemed like a great deal but I looked at what it covered and wasnt that great. BMW will only change your oil every 15k miles and give u wiper blades and brakes...doesnt sound like much a deal. There is no drain plug on the 06 325i so once your free maintenance is over (48k miles I believe) you likely have to pay an insane amount just to get a basic oil change.

jtow

Value is defined by what someone is willing to pay for an item. BMW lacks value to me because noone has ever been able to justify 20K more for a car that has the same or less than my TL. Simply put, if FWD is a deal breaker for you, buy a BMW. Honda's engineers know that FWD is safer and flat out better when it comes to harsh road conditions.

I have said it many times on this forum, Honda/Acura is an engineering company FIRST. Analytical, smart and uncommonly clever. They start with a safe, reliable car design and work their way to performance. That is why the only two cars that are said to be true "sports cars" from Honda (S2k and NSX) are rear wheel drive. BMW however focuses only on the driving experience. Cost which is synonymous with value is of no concern whatsoever for car companies like BMW.

Saintor

Then why the TL weight so much? More than a 530i. BMW has all Honda technogical expertise and more. Their cars are always very efficient.

crxb

Honda can do "light" look at the NSX


"light" can also mean expensive

neuronbob

That was an interesting thread, for the most part. There was relatively little animosity in the portion I read and I agree with the BMW owners--the driving experience in a BMW is the shiznit. So why do I own a TL? I felt I didn't require a status symbol and that the extra money spent on a 330i with sport package (which is the BMW I would have chosen) could be better spent on investments. I am satisfied with the TL because of its value, looks, features, and (so far) reliability.

mickey3c

Of course there are arguments back and forth on this ... each justifying the purchase.. The BMW is much better handling wise. The TL has to have much lower profile tires for it to come close. You definitely will draw more looks from people on the road for sure when you are in the BMW. The drawbacks is the expense to repair the BMW. If you happen to need a few repairs after the warranty is up, them expect to spend some money. The parts are what costs! The insurance is much higher on the BMW as well..

Legend2TL

I haven't driven a current gen 3 series but the previous generation was only slightly better handling to me compared to the 3 Gen TL. I used to be enamored with BMW's but over the years their performance gap has narrowed dramatically. They are still the pinnacle but they the difference is not that much any more. Also after having driven a Z06 vette, I felt the same way about the 911.

My brother has had 5 BMW's and he still enjoys driving them and will probably never own anything else, but even he had to admit the S2000 was a higher level of performance over a Z3 after he drove a friend's S2000.

mickey3c

which Z3 was he driving? There were 3 engines for that model. You had to get the m3 engine in it for some real fun...

JetJock

BTW... The free maintenance seemed like a great deal but I looked at what it covered and wasnt that great. BMW will only change your oil every 15k miles and give u wiper blades and brakes...doesnt sound like much a deal. There is no drain plug on the 06 325i so once your free maintenance is over (48k miles I believe) you likely have to pay an insane amount just to get a basic oil change.[/QUOTE]

I don't mean to get off subject here, but I'm curious about the drain plug. Are you saying the new 325i doesn't have a drain plug to change the oil?? It's hard to believe any car wouldn't have a simple drain plug in the oil pan. How are you supposed to drain the oil?? If BMW has 15K oil change intervels, it's obvious they don't care about the car after the warranty period expires. Just about any car will make it to the warranty period with 15K oil changes but what happens after that concerns me.

Legend2TL

3.0L, which I believe was the middle motor (not the 2.8L or 3.2L) for the Z3.

djemx2

Thats one thing I read on the BMW forums for people wanting to change their own oil. Unless they hid it perhaps the dealer has a some kind of tool to take it out. I have yet to look under my friends 325i but when I get a chance I'll check.

Russdaddy

!!

The high cost of simple maintenance was something that I didn't want to deal with. I'm able to change the oil in my civic by myself and wanted to do same if I wanted to with my next car. I first looked at the Benz C-class and was quickly scared off by the high costs just to maintain the vehicle. The same thing happened with the BMW 3 series as well. Being already smitten with Honda's reliablity record, (Hell, I dogged the hell outta my civic for four years before I eventually threw a rod which prompted an excuse to do the engine swap) my best friend's 2001 CL-S was the thing that prompted me to buy a TL. He hasn't had ANY mechanical problems outta the thing since buying it brand-new. And he hasn't exactly babied it either which spoke volumes for me on reliability. Sure I have a few rattles every now and then in the TL but all I have to do is go for a ride in my civic and all of my gripes about the rattle go away in no time. I love my TL and don't regret my decision at all!

power-fade

I have an '02 325i with sport package and an '02 TL-S. The BMW drives better with better road feel and handling. The TL-S is a bit sloppy. After adding wheels and lower profile tires, lowering springs (1.5" drop) and performance sway bars, it is now comparable, if not better than the BMW in handling. Power is no question, that the TL-S is better.

Tripnbeats

nope no BMW junk for me guys performance is nice but quality and electronics are bogus. I've been there done that and that car was in the BMW service dept more than it was driven!!!! so F**K that. Beemers kiss my ass, ACURA ALL THE WAY! Even Mercedes has disappointed me in recent years. Dont get me wrong but all cars have their own specific vices like honda automatic trannies and standard brakes they come with, but for the amount of dough your blowing on a beemer you shouldnt have as many or any at all

iLL TL

Hiei my friend you are one lucky dude to have hadthose cars especialy the nsx

jtow

Errrr.....
I assume you're talking about a 530i, base. Add the standard items and you're looking at $60,000+ for a car with a smaller engine and less HP.... I'd say that once you add those things you're going to more than make up for the negligable 81 pounds difference.