Hi Folks,
As I mentioned in a previous thread I took the "ultimate driving machine" for a spin for about 45 min on hwy/city combined.
While the handling is outstanding the interior looks and feels very simple. This new version doesn't feel much bigger than previous one, IMO back seats are still cramped.
On the performance side, albeit this car has only 215hp/185 lb torque, it pulls very fast. The dealer made a long face when I told him that my TL has more juice than that bimmer (270hp/238lb torque) however he claimed that BMW 325i has 215 hp measured at wheels whereas Acura TL has 270 hp at krankshaft which translates to approx. 200 hp at wheels!
Any comments on this statement?

 

I am no car expert but car salesmen are very focused on doing their jobs, selling cars, so they will do whatever it takes. I believe he is talking BS.

 

BS

 

the engine has 215 hp and they all can get to the wheels......hhmmm

 

As a matter of fact he meant that the engine develops around 240 hp at krankshaft but german industry standards requires to post the actual power that is transmitted to the wheels therefore this is what 215 hp (german hp ) comes from.

 

all car salesmen are f'en aholes and lie through their ass cracks to try and sell anything on 4 wheels. 215 at the wheels is f'en BS, if that were the case then the 333hp M3 would be a 400hp car at the crank? how can he even say that with a straight face. do not buy anything from this guy cause he is just looking to make a quick buck and his dishonesty is just plain disgusting. aside from that the new 3 series makes good power for a 2.5 liter and bmw has some decent torque numbers for their engines so it will feel like its pulling hard when you accelerate. honda motors hp and torque are all high in the rpm so you will have to get the rpm's up there to make it move.

 

Thought it was 3 Litre.

 

215hp is from the 325 which is 2.5litre the 3 litre engine is in the 330 which puts out 255hp.

 

Both the 325 and 330 use the same basic 3L inline 6 cylinder engine. The 330 has 255Hp cause it has a better/different intake induction and valvetrain components (Valvetronic and two stage intake manifold).

The 325 has only 215HP but is a 3L.

You are correct and the BMW saleman is incorrect.
The measurement is at the crankshaft for 215 SAE HP for the 325, not at the rear wheels.

 

I wouldn't give my TL for this BMW 325!! I mean I was just curious how BMW changed this most acclaimed 3 series since I used to have 2002 BMW 325 back in 2003.
Bottom line: I reassured myself that TL is a much better car on about everything!

 

So basically you were impressed with the 2.5 liter version from the sound of it.. Try the 3.0 version with the 3-stage intake and 255 HP...Torque much lower than the tl as well.

 

I will give it a try just for fun!!

 

I'm gonna go check out the new 3 probably this coming weekend.

 

Both of the engines are 3 liter now, even though it sort of makes no sense as a "325" but they decided to keep the model numbers for consistency. 325 has 215 hp and 330 has 255 hp. I've driven the new 06 330i and have an 04 TL. The TL might get it straight off the line but it would be close. The driving mechanics, handling, ride, etc. of the 330 blow the TL away. It is the UDM.

 

it looks good

 

I've heard of that before. I have to believe that the sales guy was trying to make the sale and you just HAD to mention the TL. He might have heard that time and time again and wanted to find a way to terminate that conversation. My wife and I are looking for a car for her so I'm already dreading having to listen to the garbage that I'll be subject to from some car salesmen. Bottom line is that the car has to feel good to you. I was interested in the Pontiac GTO for a brief minute and would have loved dusting most cars for maybe a month or two. But for what I can afford, the TL has everything and then some! It's all about who's got the best bang for the buck, all bulll- aside.

 

325 is too wimpy for me. I look at those cars and think, posers. Yo gotta at least have a 330.

 

didn't realize that they both are 3 liters now. kinda confusing using the 325 model number. kinda like when they had the 323 and it had a 2.5 liter engine.

 

A comparably equiped 330i comes in at $43,190 target price at Car Direct.com

I'll take the TL at about 10 Grand less

 

At least it isn't a 318, lol.

 

The problem with 3 series is that they are too performance oriented. IMHO cars in near luxury segment should encompass an almost perfect blend between luxury and performance.

 

don't understimate the new 325i. true, it is the entry level bmw, but the overall balance of the car, handling, 3.0 litre i6, etc, are all good. german cars may have lower hp/tq ratings compared to the japanese, but they suffer less power loss (transmission and such) and the power comes on at a wider range - meaning it's not as peaky as japanese motors.

but i certainly do not like the cocky 325i drivers.
lol every 325i driver i've met/talked to refers to his car as a BMW, or a 3-series... never by its name.

 

i was very impressed with the new 3-series.... i was thinking of trading in my TL for the 330... the one i really liked was fullly loaded and had a oem C/f front lip

 

I saw one on the road today. The guy had his parking lights on while driving (why in the heck do people do this?) and I noticed that the parking lights create a glow around the headlights. Tough to explain, but you have to check it out.

 

^angel eyes. no need to explain, most people know what you're talking about.

some believe DRLs increase visibility, therefore safety. (crazy people... haha)

 

The new BMW 3 series looks nice from the outside but you all have to see the interior. It looks retro and more like back in the 80's. Don't like the interior and the seats especially looks really cheap. I think the previous gen's interior looks 10 times better.

 

Actually fellas, the reason he probably had them on is because the regular DRLs are not yet working. At least for most people. It seems the software that the dealer can use to set this feature to on/off is late arriving from BMW AG so maybe as a temporary solution he is using the "halos", which are parking lights, instead of DRL.

 

The 325i E90 for NA is a 3.0L detuned. Full displacement. Not a 2.5L.

 

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...=1#post1194517

 

I'm "not" sorry to say this. BMWs besides the M3, M5, or the new 6series, the rest are a JOKE. I was never a fan of BMW, not only the car is "average" (in my book, it's damn slow), it's over-priced, and the 3 series interior space feels like a honda civic.
99% of BMW drivers I see on the road bought their car because it's BMW. TL beat them in every category in terms of SPEED, COMFORT, PACKAGE, PRICE.

So why would anyone buy a BMW? The answer is obvious... they buy it because it's simple a BMW.

I always say this to BMW owners "you buy an M3 or M5, I say you're the man! You buy a 3 or 5 series. I see you at a light, I'm going to show you my rear bumpers"

 

You might be right that a lot of BMW owners bought their cars because of the name/image, but that's definitely not the case for me and many other BMW owners. I can give you a ton of reasons other than brandname or image for why I paid more money for my 330Ci.

Because I have the Performance Package, my car will take the TL off the line. It won't even be close if the TL is an automatic.

Taking turns or going around curves in even a base 3er without the sport suspension or performance package suspension gives you that feeling of being on rails that I never got from driving the TL. With the Performance Package, right turns at 30 mph feel amazing.

The BMW power sport seats are the most comfortable seats I've ever sat in. Soft, supportive, and hug your body in aggressive driving.

The BMW interior may be plain, but it doesn't feel cheap. Moving parts and buttons feel solid and well-made.

Have I mentioned RWD and no torque steer?

Quality leather that doesn't look worn within 10k miles. My friend's leather in his TL looks 7 years old already and he takes care of it.

I don't have a single rattle. Each of the three TL's I've driven had one or more rattles from the rear deck area, the doors, and/or the sunroof area that got real annoying real fast.

Is the interior of my car as nice as the TL's? No, the TL sets the standard for the class. Do I have all the gadgets that TL owners have? No (even though I did install the BT phone connection after driving the TL), the TL sets the standard for the class in this regard as well. Did I have to pay $7k more for my car? Yes, but it was worth it for me. The TL is a badass car, but just because I chose the 3er over it doesn't mean I bought my car based on image or the BMW name.

*I do want the new M3 coming out next year though. That's going to be one sweet car.*

 

old article but very true.
my family owned 4 BMWs at one point. i have noticed the slow decline in quality.
i decided to switch to Acura after owning 2 E39's (98 528 and a 03 530).
i used to admit that BMW's are really the "Ultimate Driving Machine" but their latest pricing has not really reflected getting the most car for your money.

http://money.cnn.com/2004/11/08/pf/a...o_reliability/

 

TLud
Nicely stated. Maybe you are the 1% I referred as you bought it for the "cornering". TL is no comparison for the 330ci in terms of cornering but I doubt that's the only reason why you bought the BMW. But you stated that your 330ci with sports package can take the 6MT, now you're talking out of your ass. Maybe you can launch faster due to lighter weight, but I highly doubt you'll win and within secs the TL will pass you. An ASPEC'd 6MT will take you at the track, perhaps if you're ever around NJ. You might want to pay a visit at Englishtown NJ (race track) on saturday mornings. If you can't find it, just listen to the crowd noise when she comes out. I gurantee she'll change your mind about TLs being slower than your 330ci.

 

You made some real nice subjective points other than the assinine speed comment. An Auto TL will eat your 330ci up and down the rpm range. Dont you just love brash points?

 

"It won't even be close if the TL is an automatic. " maybe he's referring to 1996 2.5TL

But becareful, "ooooooh" his 330Ci is MT and has "sports package" "ooooooooooh"
270hp 5AT TL owners beware now!!


<----dying

 

Performance Package is not the Sport Package. You can read the C&D article on it here.


0-60 for the 330 w/ Performance Package and 6MT: 5.6 (see the C&D article above)

0-60 for TL w/ 6MT and A-Spec: 5.6 (see C&D article here).

Also, in those two articles, note the difference in price as tested between the A-Spec TL ($40,895) and the 330i w/ Performance Package ($40,095).

Not trying to start a war here because the TL is damn fast and a damn good car (I had a deposit on one); just don't like when people throw out random generalizations without support.

 

Obviously, and I'll be the first to admit, after 60 mph, the TL is going to pull away from the BMW due to the extra power.

 

HEY! I have a 96 2.5TL! It's not nearly as nice as either of those cars, but it sure held up over the years.

 

TLud -
our comments towards bmw 3 series were indeed generalized/stereotyped. yet, they are true as far as most 3 series owners are concerned. of course, there are enthusiasts who fork over their money for 330i with performance pkg and that's cool... they're awesome cars. im glad you're happy with your ride.

my point,though, is that there's no need to squeeze your head and search the web to come up with rebuttal... obviously our previous comments don't apply to you (except that there's still a possibility that you're a cocky 3 series owner haha, kidding). the truth is, the 3 series is more solid. a 330i/ci with sport suspension will indeed perform better at the tracks (i.e. autox, etc. not drap strips). but, TL with aspec, or better yet, tein ss/h&r w/koni yellows, would perform just as well - all the while being bigger in size, heavier, packing far more features, etc. your point about the prices of the two being very similar is rather moot, as the 330i would be well over that as-tested price if it were to be equipped with the same options that are "standard" on the TL.

if you would please refrain from ridiculous claims such as the TL's leather looking 7 years old, i promise i won't talk about new BMW's engine blowing up/catching on fire, or iDrive being worthless, or the lack of reliability & repairs/maintenance costs.

sure, your 3 series has no torque steer - but it's not like BMW magically made it disappear with superior engineering... they simply went with RWD. i chose FWD over RWD because i live in MI. so again, your point is moot.

i still have respect for some bimmers... but i'm losing my respect, fast, for the drivers.

well, bimmer drivers, i'll look forward to reading your responses.

 

I don't underestimate Beamers, I just dont think spending taht much on a 325 is worth it. I would love it if they could shove our interior in the new 3, that would be 1 nice Entry level luxery sedan(or coupe )