argoldst

Hey guys,

Today I went from an all time high to an all time low.

I had signed a contract with David at Island Acura for an 05 navi manual for $32,750 plus the price increase from 04 to 05 (about $300). SO the car should be about $33,050.

So I get a call today my car is in!!!

Then they tell me to bring a check for $34,900 (i'm buying in transit and will pay taxes later).

$34,900???? WTF???? So I ask to speak with David. He has been fired.

So I go in to speak with the manager and he tells me, the best he can do is $34,500. I said no way. I have a contract. His response was "I need to get market value for the car" or I can refund your deposit.

Everything I try to talk to him about, David and my agreement, the contract, he is like a broken record "I have to get market value for the car". So I left with him not budgeing, without my TL, and that he will speak to the owner of the dealership to see what he wants to do. I asked for the owners name and he would not even give me that. THIS IS THE F'N sales manger I'm talking about!!!

So now I have to wait till Monday, and start preparing to sue,contact honda/acura and so forth.

To top it off, I returned my lease car and have NO car now.

FOR ALL THOSE THAT BOUGHT A CAR FROM DAVID AT ISLAND ACURA, EXPECT THE SAME TREATMENT. THE MANAGER JOE WILL TRY TO BEND YOU OVER AND RAPE YOU!!!

EVERYONE STAY AWAY FROM ISLAND ACURA (long island). Mods, I would appreicate greatly if you could make this a sticky. It will probaly save some other people of going throught the same BS I am now

Does anyone know who or what number I should call at honda/acura to get help with this?

mobilezen

You could call American Honda or Acura and speak to their legal department about it. Where is Island Acura? Never heard of it but if I'm ever around there looking for my TL I'll make sure to stay away Should've kicked the manager in the nustack

argoldst

Do you know the number for them? I can't seem to find it anywhere.

neuronbob

You might start by calling Acura Client Services at (800) 382-2238. There is a number for the corporate offices, try a search to find that.

I am shocked at your treatment--you had a signed contract and they totally reneged. They are clearly not interested in your business and you should take it to another dealer, along with your deposit. There are plenty in the NYC area (you said Island Acura was on LI, so I assume NYC).

mobilezen

Ah, the joys of negating a contract. They will definitely need and probably have some bogus reason for such actions. If you do end up in court, hope you get the money you deserve and then some so you can put it into the car

argoldst

I will update this thread with information as I go along this process. (I would love to go to another dealer now but to me, it is a matter of principal. I want to give the business to someone else but I will NOT allow them to break a contract with me. It is just ethically wrong).

Again, any mod, please make this thread a sticky for now.

I recommended David at Island Acura to quite a few people and I am nervous that many may start to have the same problem as I am now. (Maybe just make it a sticky for a little while so everyone who got a car from them has a chance to see this and the outcome).

Thanks

mobilezen

Do you know for sure David was fired? You should try calling up to the dealer and asking for him by name and see what happens.

argoldst

Yes, I was told by two different salesman and the manager. Funny thing was that I actually talked to him last Monday (6 days ago) and everything was great

I even offered to have the manager call David while I was there but he wouldn't do it.

They are REALLY SCUM!!!

caball88

damn sorry to head about this. i was dealing with David from Island Acura as well back in feb. i didn't end up buying from him even tho he seemed like a nice guy. i hope everything works out for you.

SpecialFX

I had problems with them a number of years ago when I was looking at an Integra. They were a bunch of a'holes. I ended up not even buying an Integra I was so disgusted with them. Sorry to see they haven't changed any. When I was looking for my TL I didn't even consider going there. I hope you get it worked out satisfactorily.

argoldst

I appreicate everyone's feedback. I am sure it will turn out well because I am personally not willing to let them off the hook. I will sue and I will get what my contract states (even if I have to buy at another dealer and sue them for the difference in price)

Its just all the aggrivation and nonesense. There is really no need for this.

They DEFINETLY picked on the wrong person to F*CK with. I'm going to sue, going to post on every forum I can find, I get the newspapers to publish my story. When I am done, they will have lost 100 times more than if they just lived up to their end of the deal

Mark my words, I will either get this manager fired by the owner or get the whole dealership in trouble with Acura/Honda. They will regret even trying this junk with me.

I will post my sales contract/invoice so everyone can see it when I get back home (later today).

EnJ

They tried to get about $2000 or so more out of you right? Won't it cost more in the long run with lawyer and court fees if you sue? I realize you're pretty pissed, I would be too but it might just be better to check out another dealership. Go do a search on acura.com, find another dealer, and ask for a quote from the internet manager. Thanks for getting the word out on them though; I'll never take my car there for anything.

rets

Sorry to hear this. Wish the solution would come to you very soon.

Did that Manager sign your contract, too? My contract used to have salesman and manager's signature at the same time. This would make sure that agreement is legit. He cannot recognize his SIG?

Anyway, all my purchases since Car 1 have Manager SIG, maybe only me.

argoldst

Not really true. In NY, we have small claims court that I can sue them for a fee of like $50 as long as the total amount is under $5,000 (which it is).

What I will do, is have a lawyer draft a letter to them. They will either give me the car on Monday at the contract price or I will buy from another dealer. I will then sue them for the price differnce that I had to pay from another dealer and then sue for renting a car the amount of time I have to wait for a new car from this other dealer.

Choice is theirs then. Sell a car and make money or go to court where they will loose 100% and end up paying me somewhere between 2k-5k.

And this DOES NOT include what I will personally do to their dealership. I will report this to all local newpapers and even try to get tv involved (cbs news here does a segment called "SHAME ON YOU" which they report cases like this on tv and try to help people. I think they would take on my case.

Between the bad publicity and costs, if they have any brains, they will give me my car at the contract price on Monday.

Finally there is the principal of this. If we consumers allow a dealership to do this with no recourse, then they will only continue to do it get away with it.

Is it more work for me? YES. but in my opinion, you cannot let scumbags like this get away with this type of illegal and unethical behavior.

I am not just fighting for me. I am sure there are others who bought from david and will have the same problem I am having. If I post my solution, they can see it and can/will do the same. This dealer will have to live up to its contracts and in the end, by doing something so unethical, they will hurt their own business.

g00dfella108

Power To The People!!!


Island Acura

Michael A

Why don't you go to Hillside Acura and see what they will do for you ?

argoldst

They gave me a quote of 34900

cvajs

there's no contract unless you signed a bill-of-sale which lists final price. if you have this then work with their CRM, let them know your next step is Consumer Affairs (CA is very affective) and at the same time contact ACS.

in NY, verbiage is usually conveyed as misinterpretation, and they (dealer) will always say, as standard business practice, they never make verbal deals.

most dealers have that 30day clause in their contracts that say if a car is not ready for delivery within 30days then customer has option to wait or request full deposit refund.

i've learned to avoid the dis-honest dealers, take your $$$ some place else and avoid the grief and wasted time.


cheers

argoldst

Here is my sales contract.

http://www.geocities.com/argoldst/invoice1.JPG

mobilezen

...yup looks like a bill of sale to me.

Xpditor

Looks like a binding contract to me.

Stick it to 'em.

argoldst

Ok so here is the deal and my question.

What ist he best way to accomplish both of the following:

1) Hit/hurt this dealer as much as possible
AND
2) Get the car from another dealer. I do not want to give them the satisfation of a sale to me.

mobilezen

Watch out what you write online. Corporate lawyers have a way of twisting around words to make it sound like libel/slander so be careful. First thing first, word of mouth. That already does a lot of justice so many people in your area will not be going to that particular Acura dealer. Many others have also experienced the same thing as you so I'm sure news has spread pretty far and wide. As for getting another car, just start from scratch and see what kind of deal they can give you and play their games, etc etc.

SouthernBoy

There are three requirements which make a contract legal and binding.

1. It must be an agreement of legal substance (you can't contract to burn down someone's house or steal their car).

2. It must be signed by parties legally able to make the agreement.

3. Consideration must be made. (this means something of value must be exchanged.. money is the general instrument here but it can be most anything).


Does your contract with the dealer pass all of these tests? If so, your contract is binding. Read any and all contents to make sure the dealer has not included in the agreement avenues for his escaping the contract. Assuming there is no escape clause or anything similar of any kind, the dealer is in breach of contract if he tries to invalidate or negate the agreement.

Good luck and go after them. I like the idea you are trying to burn them where it hurts most.. publically.

TechGeek

I have the same problem. I didn't sign a contract yet but i negotiated a price with david. I sent him an eamil to ask something and next thing i know i am getting an email from someone else with the same generic email foramt saying my name is and i promise this and promise that and the price is $34,995. Well of course i responded back like who the hell are you and he said i am the new internet sales person and david was fired. I asked if he is going to honor that deal david and i struck and of course he said no. THEN he has the nerve to call me a liar saying that what i was offered was for a 2005 non navi or for a 2004 with nav. I responded back to him, very nice mind you, saying that no i was 2005 navi and i have all the emails to back it up. Then when i push him to deal with me so we can come to an agreement and i tell him i know the price difference between 2004 and 2005 to see if he would budge and go lower..he f***** gets rude and beligerent with me telling me i am lying, and i should check my emails because i am wrong and what not. I mean what kind of a way is that for a salesman to talk to a potential customer. So i responded back quoting the email David sent me proving it was for a 2005 with navi. So he tells to forget it he won't or can't match it and i should, not maybe i should..but SHOULD go somewhere else. I mean what kind of a salesman is that.

So i emailed the island acura website hoping someone with some authority will read it and respond back to me. But argoldst if you get any info on contacting the owner or something so we can complain i am right there because the way i was treated is bulls*** and will not be accepted.

argoldst

TechGeek,

I feel for you. Keep your emails as evidence and do not give up. THAT IS WHAT THEY WANT. If you talk to them again you can mention how they are F'n me (you can give me their name) also and that you will probaly join a lawsuit against them (just wait until Tuesday to say this as I will see their reactions come Monday and will advise.)

I am not going to "go away" and I hope you do the same. I have a friend who works at Honda and will get me the owners info. I am not sure if he is aware of the situation or not but once I get the information I will foward it to you.

They will recieve legal papers from me probaly on Tuesday if they do not come to their senses on Monday.

I will keep you posted and please do the same. Again, I truely encourage you to stick up for your rights. GIve them some time to think and let them know you will not "go away". Threaten to go to newspapers, news (I already sent a description of this to cbs news "shame on you") you may want to do the same, and contact Consumer affairs. If we make a stand, we will show them just how mighty the "little consumer" can be.

GOOD LUCK

Michael A

Have you contacted the BBB ?

leeherman

David Hoffman of Island Acura was my first stop when I decided to buy a TL.

I completed one of the on-line pricing services and David was the first to get back to me. His first price was $33,595 for a Navi car which wasin the ballpark of the figure I had in mind ($33K even).

Bottom line was that although David ultimately agreed to my price over the phone, I was un-impressed with his people skills. He pretty much said something to the effect of "I can do it, but that price doesn't make me happy". I'm a nice guy, and I didn't want him to be unhappy, so I went to Acura of Valley Stream, got the right car at the right price, and didn't look back.

I may end up using Island Acura's service department occasionally because it's closer to home, but David's attitude cost him a sale. I'd be curious to know why he was fired if that's what really happened.

Regards,

VADER

bought my non nav Anthracite TL from the Sales Manager of Hillside Acura (Bayshore) in June.....they didn't have my color combo in stock but made a trade with Ralley Acura and I had mine in 2 days....at invoice price....30300 + tax. No haggeling...deal took 5 minutes...I knew what I wanted.

rets

That's the manager Joe's SIG, right? Ok, this is the authorized bill for the sale.

I agree with mobilezen's suggestion, be careful what you said here. Talk to your attorney first.

argoldst

No, that is David's signature (not the manager Joe).

I appreicate the feedback but what did I say that can get me in trouble? I have stated only true things here. Let me know what I should "get rid of" and I will do it.

Thanx

narnia

Check out the Attorney General's website for Consumer Issues:

http://www.oag.state.ny.us/consumer/...er_issues.html

There is a link to a Consumer Complaint Form on the site.

Eliot Spitzer's office should receive copies of any correspondence you send to Island, and note on the bottom of your letter that you are copying the Attorney General.

grudax

Maybe David was fired for making unauthorized deals? Signing that bill of sale may have been beyond the powers of a salesman in which case you have no case. Island may have gotten tired of having to cover his deals. I do hope you get the deal you're wanting.

argoldst

Grudax,

Maybe he did get fired for this but it is not beyond a salesman's powers. I have bought many cars before and never had a manager sign a bill of sale (always just me and the salesman).

Even if the contract was a mistake (they sold the car at a loss) if they signed it, the dealership is liable. They could try to go after the salesman if he made such a mistake but the company has to honor the contracts that their salesmen sign.

The situation is really just shocking for me. Look at if from a logical stance. The dealer could:

a) Sell the car at the contract price, make money (although obviously less then he wants) and keep a happy customer

Or

b) don't sell the car, get bad press, and be assurred 100% of loosing a court battle (which will end up costing them money).

Why would they choose "b"(which is what they are doing). It just doesn't make any sense.

gbriank

Check state law because in most states salesmen are considered "authorized agents" for the dealership and their signature is considered binding when it comes to contracts. I also agree with the folks here urging you to stop speaking about this, as it could hurt your claim if a court is required.

Either way, this deal seems very shady and the dealership (even though they fired said salesman) should honor this deal in order to retain their integrity. It isn't your fault that the salesperson didn't ask for more $$$ for this car.

Brokedoc

I want to extend my deepest regrets to you. I had a similar situation from Paragon back in December so I know EXACTLY what you're going through.

The morons at Paragon wouldn't quote me over the phone but I thought they gave me a good deal on my prior lease so I hopped in the car and drove and hour to get there. They wrote up a "contract" with a sweet deal and I signed on the spot and left happy. A couple of days later the manager called and said that they couldn't honor the deal and that the contract was not binding because the manager didn't approve it. After a few choice words and getting a refund of my deposit back, I figured that these morons are notorious for this and I was wasting my time and breath.

Your situation is something that I EXACTLY PREDICTED 3 weeks ago!

See my previous post

Unfortunately, you were burned by the dealer that I've been recommending. I recall when you posted your deal last month and many thought that the deal was too good to be true. I think the fault here lies with this dishonest salesperson that was fired and not with the dealership. He probably was promising more than he could deliver and pissed off a lot of people in your situation. Who's at blame is likely irrelevant to you because in the end, you're still the one being screwed.

When I had a deposit for an '05 at Island back in July, Bob, my salesman, REFUSED to give me a price despite me being a thorn in his side. He kept on telling me that the price would be determined when the car got to the lot. Although this annoyed me, I would have been MUCH more upset if he gave me a price he couldn't honor. As it turned out, I got a leftover 04 anyway and was very happy with my experience.

As I'm not a lawyer, I can't comment on what you're rights are here...only that when I got burned, Paragon said my contract wasn't valid without approval from the manager. Good luck with whatever you choose to do and I hope you get some comfort knowing that you'll be happy in your TL whenever you eventually get it.

smoore

I practice law in Toronto and the laws up here are similar but not identical to New York. Therefore, you should check my suggestions with a New York lawyer.

I couldn't open the link to the contract, so I cannot comment on it. Assuming that it is valid according to New York law, I would want my pound of flesh without giving them a sale. I would complain to the Attorney General, the BBB and Acura. I assume that car dealers must be licensed under special legislation and the registrar for that registration agency should also be contacted. I would be inclined to have a letter delivered to them (also copy via e mail) on Monday advising them that if they do not provide you with the car by say noon on Tuesday you will treat their actions as a breach of your contract and purchase a new car and sue them for your losses. This type of letter is important as it clearly sets out what they must do before you treat the contract as irretrievably breached. The tricky part is dealing with your deposit and this is the part you should particulalry check with a New York lawyer on. I would demand that they immediatlely return the deposit (ie by the close of business on Tuesday) and threaten to sue them for punitive damages if they do not. The reason that I say this is the tricky part is that by demanding the deposit returned they may be able to argue that you have accepted the return of the deposit to end the contract and waive your right to sue for damages. The correct wording to avoid this result can vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction and may not be possible in some jurisdictions. I would then sue them in small claims court. Most small claims court judges in the U.S. or Canada don't have a lot of tolerance for this type of corporate behaviour. If a New York small claims court can award punitive damages, I think it will if the deposit is not returned.

I wish you the best. I hope you nail these b*****ds.

TurboTL311

wow... for people in new york. You guys are getting crooked like sales people. Very unprofessional manner for selling vehicles.

pabound

From a non-attorney point of view, I think you have them by the short and curlys....especially given what sothernboy said...


BTW, another way to do it would be to print off this thread and let him look at it...

MY story: Went to FERMAN Acura in Tampa. When all the haggling was done, they quoted me a price $100 MORE a month than a dealership in Erie, PA, Contemporary Motorcars. When told of this, Ferman wouldn't match it - in fact, they didn't even believe it!

So, away I flew to Erie in mid-winter, and drove my beauty back.

To this day, I will never refer anyone to Ferman..


Anyways, this is your thread, and your subject; don't mean to distract...

You have a CONTRACT. Use it.

Good Luck.

Pure Adrenaline

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