Where did I ever say that? My G is too big to be competitive in my auto-x class (ESP). Especially with an open diff and street tires when most of my opponents are running race rubber and a ton more mods. I still hold my own though. The G is good practice because I'll be picking up a "fun car" next year, an S2000.

 

You get the point though.. you call IHC out saying he inferred the TL is a performance car when he didn't. Like I inferred you're saying the G is an auto-x performer. There's no point in creating controversy. Good luck on the s2000 purchase.

 

I'm getting "beat down"? You TL owners are quite the testy bunch. How dare anyone outside your community step in and argue for the other side. I've never seen such a group that has such unrealistic expectations for their cars, ESPECIALLY the 3rd gen TL-S. I'm simply arguing that the MS3 is a great performance bargin. I don't necessarily agree with everything mazdaspeed3God is saying, but it's clear to me you guys will have nothing to do with a legitimate debate.

Yeah, let me break out my Member's Only coat to visualize the awesome handling abilities of the 1987 C4 Let's not go there please. You also know as well as I, skid means NOTHING. All it is tires when it comes to the test. True handling is when you're throwing the car around in the turns and how it behaves. Sorry, but that Cutlass, errrrrr, GNX is a wet pork chop. Sorry to burst you GNX bubble. Amazing car for the 1980s and I'd love to have one in my garage, but let's not act like it has any real handling abilities

Yeah, I'm not buying it in the least. I have friend's with mildly prepped 90-94 NA 300ZXs and Fox notchback Stangs and they're pulling seriously sick times on the auto-x. I don't see a B-body anywhere close to these cars, even in stock form.

 

1st gen Mazdaspeed 3 Vs. Bikes, at Nurburgring.

Those bikes kept blocking the traffic so the MS3 driver had to slow down for them. This is quite fun. Grab some popcorn and watch the show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_sqd...eature=related

 

Damn, this is a long debate. Why the MS3 has power reduction in 3rd gear is a mystery to me. Not many cars break loose from a 3rd gear roll, unless you start rollin' with the big boys.

The MS3 will probably pull on the TL-s 6MT from a high roll, but only slightly. God over here made it clear that he believes it won't even be close. This is where I, for one, disagree. This is a healthy argument tho. I would give the MS3 the grace of being 1 car ahead, maybe 2 at the absolute max. And that's talking from a 60 to like 120 roll.

I agree with you Dave, the MS3 is a performance bargain, like the SRT4, WRX, etc. Is it a supercar? Nowhere close. But for the money, it's a good bargain. I'm not a huge fan of it's looks tho........especially the new one

 

I was using a little bit of exaggeration when I said no comparison between the two.

I think the 2010 model looks great, much more livelier and more sport inspired than the 1st gen. This car also seems to attract the Europeans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G6kx...eature=channel

 

Agreed.

Eh, I don't like the front end. Car style is subjective, to each his own.

 

You're the one that is completely one sided. I've bashed more TL members than you have for saying dumb things but I give credit where credit is due, something you're not capable of. The TL with equal drivers will outrun the G around a roadcourse. You can cry about it all you want but typing up a page worth of excuses won't change that. I'm sure you will try though.

I'm not acting like anything. You say the GN is a terrible handler, I point out that while it will never be a great handler it's not as bad as you make it out to be. Again, you have an agenda to push. I stated the car pulled good skidpad numbers and I'm the first to admit it will never have the dynamics of some of the newer cars. However, it did beat the Vette of the same years in skidpad so make fun of the Vette or do whatever it is that makes you feel happy. How many GNs have you driven? How many TLs have you driven? I've owned and driven both. I've driven a couple Gs along with many other cars. I can talk from experience and as usualy you talk out of your ass and base everything on theories but not real world experience. The Cutlass comment is real cute. How do you like your Altima?

I don't care about your friends or your experiences or your theories. I've auto-xed the GN, had a blast, would've had more fun if the brakes lasted. At no point could I put full power down but I was still competitive. Note, I did not say I won so keep that in mind when you spin this one.

Dave, maybe you're never been in a 700hp 3,000lb car but a lot can be made up for with power if the course is decently open.

Here's a nearly stock one. Not the best but not as bad as you try to make it out to be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzCyNT3mFJY

But again, you've pulled a ricer move and turned this from drag racing into auto-x in an attempt to cover up the glaring straight line weaknesses of your G and the MS3.

This is why the internet is so frustrating. Instead of arguing I would be hustling your money and sending you and the Mazda kid home crying. Unfortunately the internet allows anyone to be a hero.

 

Because there isn't a single road course that contains a straight where high powered cars can shine, right?

Not to mention your perception of American car = bad handling is horribly skewed. I don't know how many times I hear people make that claim. Get with the times - European and Japanese cars can handle poorly too. Maybe you should make your judgement once you've sat in his GN? Or are you able to tell how well a car handles just by looking at it and making a broad generalization?


Just because it "feels" like it handles better doesn't necessarily mean it grips the road better. In fact, sometimes it might handle even worse, i.e. putting lowering springs on stock shocks which limits suspension travel and changes the damping characteristics. While I agree less body roll and a lower center of gravity does tend to improve grip by minimizing weight transfer, in the end handling is your car's ability to grip the road.

As an auto-crosser, shouldn't you be more concerned about real-world numbers instead of arguing like a magazine racer?

 

 

I have an 04 6spd TL that is approaching 100k miles and I am considering something new. My friend has an 08 MS3 with a few bolt ons. That thing is a blast to drive and it pulls really good. I know the performance numbers between my car and his are similar, but the MS3 feels much faster, probably because of all the low end torque I haven't felt since I had my Firebird. I watched a video of the 2010 MS3 doing the slalom at 72mph stock, and it was impressive. It is a great car for the money and that is why I am considering it. I could use the hatchback, and it gets pretty good fuel mileage.
I had a 97 1lE firebird (which I regret to this day getting rid of after I found out there were only 14 made like that in 97) with a ton of bolt ons and a 150 shot, so I know what a really fast car is. IHC, my cousin had a Regal T-Type that ran 10s. He offered it to me for 10k a few years ago but I said no
I am not looking to spend over 30k on a car again, if I was I would get a Camaro SS. I need decent mileage, cargo capacity, a car that is reasonably quick and handles good and above all, a manual transmission. I am not interested in drag racing anymore, but I will get on it now and then. For me, the MS3 is one of the few cars that fits the bill.
Don't bash it until you drive one. It is no drag racer, but it handles great and pulls like hell from a roll. If it was rear drive and they didn't limit power in the first two gears, it would easily be a mid 13 second car stock.

 

You could turbo your TL for less than $10k and run it relatively reliably. The Camaro SS is definitely a bargain and better styling than the MS3 IMO, not many will notice you driving a MS3 but almost everyone will yank their necks to check out the SS. It's pretty funny that you say the MS3 has low end torque when MS3 kid has spent 7 pages saying that it doesn't hook until 4th gear. Although, that 72mph slalom is pretty impressive.

 

I honestly don't hate the car, it offers a lot of bang for the buck. But I hope the Mazda kid and Dave aren't representative of the MS3 crowd. I look at the car for what it is. A fun tossable reasonably quick car that responds well to mods. However, it will never be competitive with any sort of a real drag car as the kid on here tries to make it seem. It's fast enough to be fun but far from competitive.

I'm with you, I won't spend over 30k probably ever again. Or at least not until my TL expires which is a long way off. I wouldn't get the MS3 just because of the stigma attached to it. A used Camaro SS in a couple years is a definite possibility.

 

i love my tl

but im twenty. its my first car and although its not the fastest thing ive ever driven. i enjoy it way more than my buddies MS3.

x2 on me not hating the car, but when people make it out to seem like its the next skyline, that shit gets on my nerves. especially when comparing it to another car thats out of its leage in just abotu every department (the 3g tl)

 

End yourself, Ricer.

 

 

wtf.. random yet hilarious.

 

OMG, you're hilarous. I'm a ricer and now bring a negative light to MS3 community simply because I pointed numerous things wrong with your agruments and pointed out there's way more to the MS3 than just acceleration. You then countered and said how dare I take this OT by bringing up the handling aspect of the MS3. But guess what, and as in you're usual fashion, you bring your GN into the argument. Big surprise No one in here is making the argument that the MS3 is some drag car so please get over it. Some were arguing the MS3 would walk a TL 6MT/TLS at higher speeds. While I don't necessarily argee with that, I do agree it would be terribly close and if the MS3 has just a MBC, the TL/TLS is getting walked hard.

Also you wouldn't get a MS3 simply because of the stigma associated with the car and instead get a Camaro SS The stigma for the MS3 would be cheap, reliable, class-leading performance, excellent FWD chassis, thinking man's street/performance car. You're right, there's no stigma associated with the Camaro at all. I should know since I owned a modded 94 Z28 for about 4 years. The police look favorably upon Camaro owners and no one jokes about Camaro owners haircut choices or the particular turn-left car racing they fancy. Yep, no stigma there

 

Epic Combination IMO.



+






=

 

That was funny.

 

Get a room dave and IHC... or take it to PM's. These threads always ends in some kind of battle.

 

You have proven nothing wrong with my argument. What you have done is admit defeat by turning the focus to corners instead of the original topic of straight line power and supposed power cut.
You started comparing a TL to a modded MS3. You can't compare a lightly modded NA car to a lightly modded turbo car. That's not fair to the TL. I simply pointed out that MY turbo car will walk all over the MS3 mod for mod or dollar for dollar. This was your argument, not mine.

It's interesting, Dave, I can't talk about my GN on here yet you don't own a TL nor have you ever owned a TL, nor have you owned an MS3 for that matter. You're the cheerleading section, nothing more. What is your purpose as a G owner on this board? You have the balls to call me out for comparing a turbo car to a turbo car yet you don't own a TL.

See point above. Comparing a lightly modded turbo car to a lightly modded NA car is pointless. This of course is where I mention a real turbo car. Are you starting to see the cause and effect?

The MS3 will hold it's own to a TL-S in a drag race, maybe in the slalom but that's it. The TL is a higher class of vehicle in every other way. Did you not hear the OP calling the MS3 a supercar or how it runs with cars that trap 115mph? There's that selective hearing again, Dave.
Thinking man's performance car. That's grand. FWD as a plus???? But that's your opinion and you're entitled to it sad as it is. I would own it for a fun car if I could no longer afford payments on the TL. I put the MS3 along the same lines as the Civic. I would have to put up with all the boy racers trying to talk about it or race it. No thank you. With the TL, we've had awesome meets with good people. I've seen the type that drive cars like the MS3. You and the kid have reinforced what I think of small import drivers.

And I'm sorry you had a slow LT1 Camaro. Better luck next time but you fit the import profile much better anyway.

The Camaro SS puts 1 second and 10mph in the 1/4 on the MS3 plus it's RWD. Completely different world performance wise. Whatever stigma you're imagining, I can overlook that for the performance. I do like how we're all mullet wearing trailer park guys. Funny I spent my late teens and early 20s as a jeans model for a very large company, have trained MMA with people you could only watch on TV, and work in the IT field. Just the typical Camaro stereotype.

To conclude, I would not give up what the TL offers for a car that offers about the same preformance but gives up tons of luxury, looks, and refinement. No thanks.

 

IHC, I honestly have no idea where you're coming from with most everything you're arguing. I use to think you were a pretty cool dude, but I was definitely wrong about you. You're terribly closed-minded and can't carry a civil debate. I want you read VERY closely my 1st, 2nd, and 3rd posts. I start at post #211. Look at your attitude towards me. I didn't come in and call you out, say the TL was a POS car, tout the MS3 as God's Chariot, etc. Right after my 2nd post, you somehow believed I was trying to "pick a fight" simply because I didn't agree with you. Wow? Is this how all IT, MMA-trained, ex-jean models act? *sigh* ....apparently so. I think this thread is done.

 

I can't believe 8 pages of this....please close this thread. Mazdaspeed3god dude needs to be banned.

 

I remember a time when IHC backed you up in another thread you polluted Dave_B. You guys should have PM'd each other.. you burned one of your last bridges.

 

Don't give me that crap. You're not fooling anyone. You attack and then back off and act as if you don't know what I'm talking about. Your posts are littered with snotty comments like calling the GNX a Cutlass, the wet pork chop comment, the member's only jacket comment. Don't play innocent here.

It was obvious from early on that you were going to disagree just to disagree which is why I said you were looking for a fight. As soon as I saw the spin you were putting on my comments and taking them out of context I was like here we go again. You're not a dumb guy so I know you know what you're doing here.

You can not give the TL credit where credit is due. You own a G35 yet feel the need to come on a TL board and defend anything that's not a TL. I'm referring to the majority of your posts, not just this thread.

I've let you get away with dodging every point I've made so far but that's getting old.

I'm going to visit a friend in your general area next year. If I drive, let's setup a race, auto-x or road race. I'll be civil and buy the beer if you win.

 

hm...

 

Beer LOL.

 

ok stop right there buddy
you saying that the tl-s is no better in terms of luxury is an INSULT. The ms3's interior is garbage in comparison.
And if u wanna talk about performance just wait till u run into a boosted tl then compare the 2.
If you REALLY wanna compare ms3 vs tl
let me ask u this, have u EVER gotten any in ur ms3?
cuz i've gotten plenty in my tl
i'll tell u this the tl is miles ahead in terms of appeal comfort and back seat space.
most women would laugh at ur pos ms3

 

I say it's the driver in a long haul not the machine. I've beat AMG Benzes & M3 Bimmers with a-holes that didnt know how to drive.

 

Buying a car based on what women might think of you is terribly sad. BTW, most women couldn't differniate between a TL, Camry, or Malibu.

 

Says the guy that's never gotten compliments on his TL. How would you know how women think? I've had half a dozen compliments on the TL this past year from random women. Whether they think it's a Camry or Mercedes.. they know one thing.. it's a fucking hot looking car. The general consensus on the MS3... not so much. The poon magnet is a standard feature on the TL that's not available on the MS3. I really couldn't give a shit if MS3God can kick my ass in a roll race.. I cruise while getting head on the freeway.

 

Seriously? The difference between those three cars are very noticeable...If that's the case I guess people are going to start mistaking the G's for Altima Coupes/Sedans


^lololol

 

ok there, you're pretty quick to jump the gun.
I did not mention anywhere that i bought the car based on what women think of me. I'm simply implying that the TL has ALOT more appeal than the POS ms3 that looks like it was designed by three blind men.

 

Dave, TL is hotter then your G. :P

 

Yeah right, saying things like "have you gotten any in your MS3" or stating that a women would laugh at you for driving an MS3 which insinuates that a women looks highly upon one that drives a TL. We're not that dumb, Chief.

 

The general IQ of this site just went down 20 points. Welcome to ClubSi.com.

 

YOU GOT THAT RIGHT, women do look highly upon one that drives a TL but thats just a bonus. That is NOT the reason why i bought the TL though which you ASSUMED, i bought the TL for PROBABLY the same reason you bought your G. Cause its appealing to the eye, luxurious and performs well. The point i was trying to get across is that the ms3 looks like a turd on wheels.

 

I wouldn't know about that but I see you're a proud card carrying member. Dave.. you bring everyone's IQ down. You're an instigator who obviously has nothing better to do than shit on everyone's opinion with your crass & confrontational personality. Please do all of us a favor and unsubscribe from this thread / this board.. let me guess your response. THIS IS THE INTERNET & AMERICA AND I CAN DO & SAY WHATEVER I WANT. right..

So the only other option for the sake of having a life & not dropping our IQ points..

https://acurazine.com/forums/profile.php?do=ignorelist

Enter Name - Dave_B

 

WOW this thread went in a strange direction. First we all are debating with Mazdaspeedgod about the Mazdaspeed 3 and TL. Now everyone is fighting amongst eachother! Did mazdaspeedgod bring this all out or what!? Can't we all just get along!? I like a lot of aspects about this site and that is why I am here but now this thread has turned into a C L U B R S X . C O M nightmare! lol