chiawei

Got invited to the TL introduction event at Los Gatos tonight.

Took a diamond white TL out for a spin and chatted with a good looking acura rep lady.

Here is what my impression so far.

1. Transmission- this is by far the most improved area for TL. The previous generation TL under manual mode for both up and down shift would just jerk like there is no tomorrow. This one is much smoother in manual mode. Although not as smooth as Steptronic, this one is about 90% close. Which was beyond my expectation. Grade- B+.

2. Engine- The low end torque punch is better than last TL and TL-S. Throttel by wire is a great feaure and nice to see honda finally adapted. However, I would still like to have a little more low end punch. Grade- B+

3. Structure- This is another area that TL has improved greatly. For the 1st time in a Japanese sedan i actually feel like i was in a german sedan. Excellent job for honda. This is very close to what 3 series offers. Grade- A-

4. Chassis- Chassis also improved quiet a bit. The floaty feel i had in the previous TL was gone and replaced with a sense of security that I never had in previous TL. Grade A- (only reason it got an A-, it is because its a FF)

5. Interior- The material is one of the best in the class (actually should be the best in this class). The DVD navi screen is a step back. The display is not as crisp and rich as previous screen. Although bigger, the screen is only thing that made me feel cheap. The stereo is a step above for this class as well. Would like to have a little more bass. The seat leather i found it to be better than last one as well. Grade- A+

6. Exterior- this is very subjective. But the rear reminded me of a taurus. the front looks too much like a TSX. Lack of orginality. Grade C-.

7. Steering response- This is where TL took a major step backward. If this car is aimed to be a driver's car. Acura cursed it by giving it a c-class steering response. TOO MUCH POWER STEERING BOOST. I feel so disconnected to the road. Grade F.

8 Handling/Ride- This is also better than last TL. Still a little to much body roll, but acceptable. Ride on the other hand was balanced and feel just firm enough. Grade B

9. Brake- The feedback on the brake is good. Very linear response. This is what the previous TL should have as its brake.
The brake itself could use a bigger disc and better pads. Acura at least get the brake feel done correctly this time around. Just wish that all TL would get brembo as std. Grade B.

Overall Grade- B+.

Acura has a great product for its price. However, for pure driving pleasure is just aimed a little too low for me. This car feels about 85% to 90% of a 3 series. Too much body roll, tranmssion although one of the best for honda is still a tiny step behind.

The car would benefit a great deal with a stiffer suspension and tire upgrade.

Would i buy one? probably not. May be the 6 speed will cure some of disliking i had.

I would still take either 330i ZHP or G35 over TL for now. Both are just more fun to toss around.

So my ranking would be 1. G35, 2. 330i ZHP, 3. TL. But to me its a very very close range that seperated these 3 car this time around. If Acura can bless the 6 speed with better suspension setting, better tires, reduce power steering boost, and a more aggressive throttle by wire setting. This car would be a better choice than both G35 and 330i. As it now, it just falls a little short.

princed

I think that if Acura followed your suggestions, they would lose more people than they would gain. With less steering boost, a stiffer suspension, and performance tires, you would get a noisier, firmer ride that tailored primarily to enthusiasts but ignored the more luxury-oriented user. Since die-hard enthusiasts tend to shun FWD vehicles on principle, Acura would be shooting itself in the foot by offering those more extreme attributes -- they would gain relatively few of the RWD-oriented enthusiasts and lose quite a few luxury or "in-the-middle" types. Fortunately, there's an A-spec that will address most of those issues but greatly increase the "price of admission" as C&D calls it.

To me, Acura has pitted this vehicle to those of us who are not satisfied with key aspects of the G35, 330i, ES330, or A4. Before learning about the TL, I was going to buy the G35 (an extraordinary car), but I strongly considered the TSX because I really wanted a more luxurious feel and better interior quality. I couldn't quite stomach a 4 cylinder, so I felt that no matter what my decision was, I'd be making a pretty significant compromise. Fortunately, I learned of the TL and finally found the car that appeals almost exactly to what I wanted.

I think many people agree with your assessment of the TL but order their priorities differently. if you rank the G35 above both the 330i and TL, then interior quality probably means less to you than it does to many in the TL's target audience. In fact, many of us waited for the TL for that very reason (if the G35 looked like the TSX/TL inside, I'd have thousands of miles on mine already and so would several others from this board...).

Even though I would rank my choices differently, I want to thank you for the comments! It's always interesting to see the algorithms used by different people to decide on their cars of choice...

Rocketsfan

Very nice response princed. I had been waiting to buy a G35 for 2 years. I waited for them to start dealing. I lived on the freshalloy.com forums in the meantime. What I found out was that the G35 is a great car, but it's not for everybody. For me, the interior of the TL blows the G35 away whereas the G35 sedan may be more performance-oriented. In the end I thought the TL gave me more bang-for-the-buck than the G35. If everything goes well, I'll probably be picking my TL up this weekend.

acura_driver

Thanks for the thoughtful review. I generally agree with your comments, but I'd weight the categories a bit differently. So my ranking would be 1. TL, 2. 330i ZHP, 3. G35. They are all very good cars though.

Based on what I've read I do think the 6MT TL will be more to your liking.

-r

Ken1997TL

Just a few comments. I don't think the steering is overboosted, rather its "dampened", the steering in the 99+ TL's has gotten rid of "kickback". The 1st Generation TL's feel like a traditional Honda, reaonable amount of boost yet you feel the road through the wheel even when you're not turning it.

Also, if you think the transmission on the 2nd Generation shifted hard, you've been spoiled. Try a Honda automatic before about 1995, those shifted HARD. Why? Because they weren't traditional automatics, they were robotic manual transmissions with a torque converter.

jgatortl

chiawei

Great report card. I drove a silver TL last night at the Orlando Launch Party. I agree with your comments - although I don't think the TL, G35, or 330 really can be tossed around. THe cars are pretty heavy. For a performance sedan, I thought the TL handled well. Did anyone think the all the aluminum was a bit gimicky in the parchment interiors. I thought it was a bit overboard with the wood trim. The aluminum looked great with the graphite trim though. Any comments on the aluminum trim??

It does feel much more germanic than our 01 TL - only 10 more lease payments to go - hopefully inventory and deals will improve by then

TorontoTL

I found that I liked the combination of the aluminum trim with the wood in the parchment interior. I think it looks very interesting, reminds me of what Audi might do.

r_liebo

Glad to see I'm not the only one totally let down by the overboosted steering. Acura dropped the ball here. You can certainly add more steering feel without sacrificing ride quality (just go drive a 3 series, or Mercedes C-Class), and you can do it on a FWD (drive the Audi A4). No doubt Acura did a fantastic job everywhere else, but my impression of the steering feel wasn't "close to BMW, just a little too light," it was "absolutely zero road feel."
Seems from what I have read Acura was certainly targeting driving enthusiasts with this car (why else the beefier suspension and more HP, and mentioning the BMW 5 series sport as the target?). They have bested BMW in the interior and HP, but steering feel is a pretty big item to miss. Enthusiasts have been grabbing up BMW 3 series cars for years despite the cheaper interior and lower HP than competitors for precisely this reason -- the driver feels 100% connected to the road and in secure control at all times (doesn't really matter if Acura handles as well on paper -- 99% of all drivers never approach a cars limits anyway).
I really love everything else about the TL (and I'm sure that many won't care a lick about the steering feel in light of the cars other virtues), but the disconnected steering is forcing me to look elsewhere before making the leap.

gotsand?

jgatortl,
I agree with your comments on the aluminum trim with the parchment interior and I'm not crazy about the wood. Loved the graphite trim. Didn't get to see an Ebony interior last night at the coming out party in Scottsdale, nor did I get to see a good looking sales lady. I have an Ebony interior with aluminum trim in my TSX and it rocks.

chiawei

Please read my comment carefully. I said transmission shifted hard under the manual mode. Regular driving is acceptable. But manual mode in the 2nd generation is just poor.

Ken1997TL

I read it very carefully and I will say again, you must have been spoiled in previous vehicles. Honda automatics in previous iterations shifted very hard, no matter what. The TL's tranny even in sportshift mode is "soft" compared to anything Honda has released before.

UA5-TL

it is IRONIC that you said in
#3
"the 1st time in a Japanese sedan i actually feel like i was in a german sedan. "

and then in

#7
"Acura cursed it by giving it a c-class steering response"

So you're saying the structure of the car is EURO which you mostly prefer but then you don't like the EURO type handling???

i'm sure a C-class had a bigger steering radius than our acura's....

chiawei

Obviously the extend of your knowledge on european car stops at only mercedes.

Mercedes typical steering response is not a typical european response. All of manuf. in europe, MB has the most excessive power steering boost and had the most damped response. This it not a typical european trait.

Manf. such as BMW, PSA, Alfa, and even VAG to some extent offer a much better steering response.

mercedes is not a typical european manf. in terms of its numb steering.

In addition, what does turning radius has to do with steering response.

chiawei

I have to wonder the reading comprehension skills on this board.

I have owned 3 honda prior to my ex-TL. The 5 speed on the 2nd generation TL shifts fine (better than my 94/92 accord, on par with 98 Accord), when you are driving it like a regular automatic. i.e. it shift by itself when the computer decide when to shift.

The problem I had is when you manually upshift and downshift the transmission is poor. This transmission simply does not like being told what to do. During the downshift, the transmission let out too much of an engine brake effect. This cause the car to jerk violently. During manual upshift, the transmission was slow to engage, and by the time it is engaged to the next higher gear ratio, the engine RPM has risen quiet high. This would also cause the car the jerk.

This has to do with poor response to the manual override.

Obviously you still did not read carefully.

brucedeb1

I too attended the launch party last night. Got to take my test drive finally. If there was a shade of doubt in buying one, certainly erased now. Not in love with the fake plastic black carbon look on the dash treatments. I am checking in to being able to order replacement pieces in wood to replace the black in a quartz interior. My first choice is Anthrocite/quartz/nav/auto. If I can't order the wood pieces then it will probably be White pearl/parchment/nav/auto. But I love my first choice! Overall an incredible ride!

bollywood21

Hello all,
I am new to this forum, but am an avid fan of Honda and Acuras.
I recently bought a 04 TL 5AT NAVI, green pearl w/ parchment leather, and a few other trinkets. Delivery date early december.

I would rate the car A-.
The exterior and especially the interior is fantastic. All the gadgets on the car are fantastic. No docking a cell phone or messing around with a wireless headset is great.

Now the drawbacks:
Propulsion system - AWD..... better on any pavement, rain, snow, or dry. I also have 2001 MDX, and the car handles very well in snow and rain.
Torque - I wish the car would give me more feeling when I have to put hammer down. The G35 has 260hp / 260ft-lb and the TL 270hp / 238ft-lb.
It definately has enough ponies under the hood. I would like to feel me taking off, instead of SEEING the speedometer taking off!!!
Overall very excited, to get delivey of my new car.