chazy777

Had the car less then a year (as of April) Thie is my first mechanical problem. I was stuck in bumper to bumber traffic for 6 hours driving 70 miles through the sierras at around 1-10mph.. probably 2 hours into it, the concentrated burning smell of the clutch suffocated me and my passenger and had to suffer to get out of there... coming home, my gears were getting worse at locking in and my clutch was getting stiffer. Got it to the Acura dealership and I guess it's gonna be a $2000 replacement .. (~$950 for part and $1000 for labor) .. I'm hoping the clutch is broken so it's covered under warranty. If they determine it's worn out, I have to pay for it out of my pocket. I never drive my clutch hard.. I've always driven it smooth and I never jump the car... so ok I've peeled out a couple times in the past a long time ago... but that's it... is the transmission of these cars this fragile.. Anyways I am driving a focus rental now since their lenders are all out for the week

I'm depressed now... I'll update this post as I get status of my car.

ericajackhannahjamie?

Unless you ride the clutch all the 70miles, it shouldn't be burnt already... My car has 11,000 miles on it and my clutch is ok. I hope the dealership will replace for free or covered under w!!

good luck

cM3go

Unless they can prove your driving ruined the clutch, it should be covered under warranty IMO.

mickey3c

2000 for a clutch... that's a bit pricey isn't it? I have not had to replace one in a long while and it is like twice what my last one cost me...

chazy777

well I'm sure they will tell me it's worn out and that I burnt it up... they couldn't believe the car was still driving.. he felt the clutch and by the smell it was completley burnt out.

I'm thinking that if I HAVE to pay for this, I will call some trusted Acura mechanics around here that should be able to get it for me much cheaper (is that still bad idea you think?). The thing I'm worried about is getting my car from the dealership to the mechanic without paying for towing service.. should I risk driving it 5-10 miles more? I mean hey, I drove it 6-7 hours in that condition..just the gear is always slipping and it's like driving a 2 cylinder car..

I called other Acura dealerships and they say the same thing as an estimate of cost that i would have to sign off.. it;s $950 for part and you have to sign off a $1000 labor disclaimer.

KilroyR1

Call Acura CS, kiss their a$$ and see if they will Goodwill a repair. If you've been getting your service done at an Acura dealer, they cover either the cost of the part or the whole repair.

This engine does not make much torque below 2000, so I have to slip the clutch to keep it from stalling when going up hill. I can see how six hours of this woud toast it.

Good Luck!

Don

chazy777

What's the number to Acura CS? ( Should be in Owner's link? I'll start lookin)

So lesson to be learned with TL 6MT? If stuck in a blizzard going through mountains, do not drive the car.. pull over and wait for traffic to free up and storm to go away?

I can't believe this car is not capable of handling treachorous traffic like this like most other vehicles can. I wonder if others with a MT had the same problem as me in this traffic.

direk_04TL

well, the thing is ... if used properly, a MT clutch should never need a replacement. what i mean by "used properly" is:

1. The transmission -- specially the clutch -- has to be broken in properly. -- yup, do not floor it for the first 600 miles!

2. DO NOT ride the clutch -- putting pressure on the clutch pedal while the car is moving is usually a bad idea.

3. Only apply the clutch when you need to -- i.e. - moving from first to neutral. When in neutral, the clutch should always be disengaged.

I hope your car gets fixed immediately ... why not invest in a Comptech clutch?
please feel free to add to this list!

Lore

Just a warning - don't expect too much from ACS. You'd be better off kissing @ss to your dealer than ACS.

I don't know about you guys, but ACS has absolutely the lowest grade in my book in terms of their ability to assist you with problems. They've failed to uphold commitments, and have become quite rude on the phone when I call them out on those commitments.

I wrote two letters in response to the poor customer service to both the Exec VP of the Acura division of Honda and the Manager of Acura Customer Service. They routed the letter back to the case manager that I was complaining about, who called me on Friday to tell me that Acura would not consider upholding the commitments I wrote about.

Absolutely ridiculous! I don't even know who to go to anymore if no one in management pays attention to their customer service.

chazy777

how else are you suppose to drive your MT car 2-5mph in traffic with nowhere to pull over up the Sierra mountains for hours straight without putting pressure on your clutch? I always try to avoid pushing the clutch when the car is moving.. I would invest in Comptech clutch if I had the $$$.. right nwo I'm gonna be stuggling to fork over $2000 just to get this repaired...

I called Acura CS.. They told me based on the investigation results of my clutch and it's found to not be covered under warranty, they may give a first time courtesy to have it repaired... so I guess it doesn't hurt to call and get a ticket opened up on my case!... but yea.. that worries me if they commit and don't follow through.. I'll let you know.

need4speedny

In the US your car is covered bumper to bumper for all parts and labor including wear items.. It is a parts warranty not vehicle warranty.. I used to work for a dealer and I know that ever part on the car is covered for 12/12k miles.. this inlcudes everything from brake pads to rotors to your clutch.. Unless they prove you abused it it should be covered.. Im sure if you do a google search youll be able to see this better explained but this also includes any part that is replaced on your car or any part you purchase from the parts department.. As soon as your car is fixed teh warranty period starts all over again. I believe it can be done 3 times for the same part.. Goodluck!

chazy777

why only 12K miles? Keep in mind I have 18,900K miles.

And that's exactly what they'll do is prove I abused it (which they can fake easily).. And I'm sure they can easily make up stories about certian aspects of the clutch that can happen with or without abuse. Acura CS told me same thing as the dealership... Parts / Labor are ONLY covered for parts that are NOT wear items. You can call them yourself to verify.. I just got off phone with them a couple hours ago. You may be thinking of another make and not Acura specifically.

need4speedny

im pretty sure it is all cars... They must warranty the parts and labor for 12mo 12k miles! you have 18900 which means your out of warranty on the wear items.. but if you purchase parts or get something fixed even if you get it fixed at 35999 miles you will gain another 12k miles on those parts and labor... check into it but sorry doesnt help in your situation good luck man..

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

If the clutch is worn you'll be paying for it. If the pressure plate broke or something else has broken down you'll be covered under warranty.

SouthernBoy

To chazy777;

I can easily drive 2-5 MPH with the clutch fully engaged so there is a full lcokup of the drive train and absolutely no slippage. Did I say, with the clutch fully engaged so as not to ride it?

This car has a rather unique feature for the manual transmission (and I bet for the automatic as well) whereby the ECU deliberately reduces throttle response at very low speeds so that you don't suddenly tip in to the throttle and jerk the car or worse.. hit the vehicle in front of you. Well this also allows you to have a little more travel in the trottle as well which is a positive aid when going up hills at a very slow speed. Try it.

Anyway, I agree completely with direk_04TL. You should virtually never need to replace a clutch assembly, barring unusual conditions such as racing or towing or living in a city such as San Francisco. At least not for a minimum of perhaps 150,000+ miles.

caball88

when i commuted to work i use to drive in rush hour traffic everyday 50 miles each way alot of bumper to bumper driving and the clutch is still perfect. i have 20K on the car now and there really isn't the slightest sign of clutch wear. either there was a mafunction in the clutch or you might have been riding the clutch way too much.

MR1

Sorry you got caught in the storm on Hwy 50 or I80. I know those roads fairly well. It sounds like perhaps your technique for shifting may be imperfect. If you stayed on the clutch most the way back down to Sacramento, you very well may have burned it up. That's a tough drive in bad weather, takes nerves of steel and 100% attention to avoid trouble in the snow. Did you have to put chains on too?

I would ask for help from the dealer and Acura but not expect it, not their fault IMHO, sorry again.

MR1

If he was on the roads I mentioned you go from Elev 7000' to almost sea level on that portion of road, add snow + ice + traffic from hell = as bad as San Francisco. It's only about 100 miles but you wind through the Sierras. I hate that drive under those conditions in my 5AT.

caball88

i am not familiar with the road but from the way mr1 is describing it sounds pretty treacherous. i think if you were riding the clutch because of the type of road it is then you may well have burned out the clutch and it probably was not a defect. were you going uphill or downhill? i can't see burning out the clutch going downhill.

birdman204

Used to live in the area, The road is rough , but not bad enough to fry a clutch, unless say, you needed chains and weren't using them, alot of clutch action needed there... $2,000 sounds steep to me for just a clutch (and throwout bearing) replacement, sounds like something else is awry as well if they are giving you an honest estimate.

KilroyR1

You should be very happy that Acura is willing to do this. A clutch is a wear component and they are not obligated to cover it. It's a bad situation, a clutch cannot be designed to work smoothly and easily in normal driving and withstand that kind of use. An all-or-nothing racing clutch can take high-rpm clutch drops all day long; however, they do not slip much (I had one in my old Turbo Supra).

I very much hope Acura takes good care of you.

Cheers!

chazy777

Nice to see all the comments.. and to all: this happened going UPHILL from Reno to Truckee.. coming down hill was no problem and was able to cruise in neutral a lot. And to SouthernBoy: I was LUCKY to be able to go 2-5mph which yes did allow me to lay off the clutch. But when you stop and go thousands of times, you have to use the clutch to pick back up with CHAINS especially when going up at least a 6% upgrade for over 2-3 hours.

I truly think it's a design problem of the car for this sort of condition and think everyone should be warned if in this condition. I find it hard to believe that all the other manuals had the same problem as me unless they had the same design of clutch. I've never had one person complain about the way I drive a clutch that has driven with me; in fact, I have received many comments about how good I drive it. You never notice me changing gears, and I use neutral a lot when I can and lay off the clutch as soon as I can. Yes I should've pulled over every 30 minutes and let the car rest for 30 minutes in this torture on it. Course I would've been pulling over in 3 foot snow and risk getting myself stuck. All the exits were blocked off and I was watching 4 feet of snow layout around me before my eyes and you can only see a foot in front of you when driving. I found out they closed down highway 80 as I was in the middle of it... so no wonder!! Believe me, I was wishing I could reverse time and have stayed in Reno. The weather report did indicate snow/rain that morning.. but it was a huge frigin storm!!

And Update: last I heard on my car was it was all proped up and gutted out with parts everywhere.. So they are still investigating to see if it was "negligence".. but whether it is or not, it has to be broken.. this is what irritates me. I really think if it's a design issue that refrain the car from being in certain conditions that it should be able to handle, that warranty should cover it. But there is no telling it was in that condition I guess...I've never had any sign of the clutch going out on me or any warnings. Just happened all immediately.

chazy777

Correction on my problem happening from "Reno to Truckee"... It was from Reno all the way through DonnerPass to AppleGate I believe. It took 2 hours to get through Truckee though mainly because of the chain stop check point! I should've pulled over in there when I had the chance to find a vacant INN.. This was the only place to exit. But I had no idea my car was having trouble!

mickey3c

HUH!!!

be very happy acura is willing to do this!!!!
You got to be on drugs... So now the car has a manual tranny that is no good on the mountain roads and an auto tranny that may not be good either (due to lack of lubrication in second gear).

yeah I know the oil jet resolves that issue..

You buy a car based on a quality perspective and I do not believe that in one year you can toast your 2000.00 tranny if that person was driving it properly.

So be ready to buy a new clutch each year and be thankful acura is willing to cover you. I got 30,000 + that says next time I will go shopping elsewhere.

It is always good to know your cars limitation and accept them for whatever reason. But when you operate the car and encouter a 6 hour traffic jam that is going to cost you about 315 bucks an hour in repairs to drive. I fall out of love with that products really quick..

What I would like to know is how many other manual trannies lost clutches on the road that day. If it was just acura and it probably was. Shame on them..

So if you continue to buy their products shame on you..

I have had several standard automobiles and have never had clutch failure like that...

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

The Comptech upgraded clutch for the 2nd Gen CL had the same problem.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

Oh and FYI the COMPLETE clutch assembley (including flywheel) is only $750 MSRP and you can order it from a dealership online for around $630 (including flywheel). The flywheel is $315 MSRP. The clutch set alone is only $350 (doesn't include bolts, brackets, etc.) I don't see how it would cost $2,000 for a replacement. Even at 10 hours of labor @ $85/hr you are only looking at $1,200.

cblackburn

When I first started reading this thread, I was thinking 'geez. this guy just can't drive a stick'. After all, I got stuck in NC's whopping "1 inch of snow" a little while back and it took me 7 freak'en hours in stop and go traffic to get home. My clutch was fine (gas was a different story). However, now I think I understand your situation more. I don't think the blame could be placed on you at all. I'm not even sure the 'blame' could be place on Acura. After all, I doubt the 'drive 7 hours uphill during a snow storm' is part of anyones QC test. It sounds like you just got a raw deal. I don't think there's realistically anything you could have done differently, unless you wanted to run the risk of sleeping in the snow.

I hope Acura does come thru for you and helps you out. This could easily be one of those situations where if the company has a heart and helps a customer out, it could benefit them as much as it could benefit you.

SouthernBoy

To chazy777;

Really, I am very sorry to hear of your ordeal. And I hope you don't feel that I was flaming or ragging on you and your technique. Obviously, I was not there so I am totally unfamiliar with the weather and road conditions on that day.

If this happens to turn out to be a flaw in the design or materials of the clutch assembly, please let us all know as this would be invaluable information.

Good luck to you getting your car serviced and fixed.. hopefully under warranty, but if not, at least at the graces of Acura.

Legend2TL

The price of the clutch parts sounds way off. Here is the TL clutch parts list from Acuraparts247. Double check with the dealership on that repair quote, something is wrong (even if they replace the flywheel!).

mickey3c

based on what I see here, there is about 800 (list price) in parts including taxes. So labor is 1200 bucks. What are they getting now 75 an hour? So they need to have your car for two days to get this done.?!!!

Or it is the standard rate they charge based on the rate book ( I forget what it is called). But they charge you a documented rate for a job even if they do it in less time or more time. I ran into this years back when they charged me 2 hours labor for a job where the car was not only repaired, but washed and vacuumed in about 80 minutes.

They made so dam much on just repairing the car... But 2000 for a clutch

Legend2TL

I'm assuming the flywheel is still good.

I've replaced clutches on 5 cars and never once replaced a flywheel. Typically a clutch replacement is the clutch disk, throwout bearing, pivot bearing, and if needed the pressure plate. So the list pf those parts is ~$400, so the $800 seems very high.

I noticed here that the pressure plate and clutch disk are sold only as a set.

Legend2TL

My mistake I realize on my original post I included the flywheel.

I should have written BUT NOT replace the flywheel.

Hope it all works out for you.

BTW, my last clutch replacement was on my brothers 89 Civic two years ago.
My labor charge to him was a case of Bass Ale

crvlvr

chazy777, I am rooting for you to get a free clutch. My previosu car was a BMW323 and I routinely spent an hour in rush hour traffic in Los Angeles doing less that 20mph. I figure I must have done thousands of miles under these conditions with no clutch problems.

Forget the technicalities of the warranty. Auto manufactures will always leave a loop hole through which they can crawl out of. Atleast for PR purposes, Acura should replace your clutch for free. I am expecting my 6MT in the next few weeks and will be spending time in rush hour traffic with it.

All the best.. Keep us posted.

caball88

you know what 2000 does sounds pretty high for clutch replacement. i would check other repuatble places(preferably non acura dealers). whenever you go to dealers they always try to rip you off.

chazy777

Acura got back with me an hour ago already said my car is DONE...so this job just took one day? They told me that EVERYTHING that has to do with the clutch including the FLYWHEEL was SHOT along with some kind of bearing and other things that is all included in the $2000 repair. I'm not a mechanic in any way so I don't know any of this (one of the reasons why my heart has been set on an Acura) ... They were not able to determine the cause of the complete wear out...but jsut went ahead and replaced and fixed everything without my consent...I guess the waiver I signed authorized them to do everything ... lol yea shoudl've read the fine print.. For all they know it looks like it's been driven on for over 100,000 miles! so it's simply not covered under warranty. I was unaware they were fixing it at all and were only investgating. So I'm pretty upset. I called Acura directly and had them process my case which takes 1-2 business days.. So I'll let you know.. thank you for all your support.. I'm gonna print out this post to bring with me when I go to pick up my car and see what had to be replaced in regards to the clutch.. I told Acura that I had a 94 Saturn Twin-Cam stick shift that I drove well over 100,000 miles in these same conditions (including horrible traffic through the sierra mountains and having to use the clutch the same way) I have season pass to snowboaridng each year at NorthStar and Sierra (Double Whammy Pass) if anybody is familiar with this so you would be familiar with this kind of nightmare when storms happen... so I go up there alot... but yes by design of our TL clutch, it's a different release to it that I had to get use to (which I did very quickly) ... but there has got to be something about the design of our clutch with it being a high end luxary / sport sedan that makes it incapable of being under this condition ... now I know!! I'm never bringing this car up to the mountains again if there is any slight little storm.. it has to be SUNNY!! so all of you keep in mind your clutch warnings if every in thie treachorous scenario! If you feel like you are having to use it too much, do everything you can to give it a rest somehow.. 30 minute rest, 30 minute go is what i shoudl've done.. this is the price we pay for not driving an "all weather" vehicle... It would've taken me over a dozen hours to get home...but would've been worth it if I knew $2000 was at stake...

bluenoise

Man, that sucks. Are you sure your signature authorized the work? Make sure you read it again to see. If signing it only meant they were going to inspect and give an estimate, then you may be OK. I'm guessing they already gave you an estimate, though, since you knew it was going to run about $2k.

Good luck with Acura.

chazy777

Yes it authorized them to do up to $1000 of labor.. But I thought they were gonna contact me right after the investigation and confirm with me that warranty will not cover it. Guess this is my fault for not making this clear to them. I called Marin (where I actually bought the car) and they told me I had to sign one that would be up to $1600... these dealerships rape you...and obviously will use all of available to them. I'm sure glad my local dealership gave me a free car rental out of courtesy.. cause I had to go to Marin where I bought my car to get another TL to drive.. this is another thing that sold me on the car.. I was under impression that I woudl get another TL regardless of dealership servicing my vehicle. 45 minute drive down to Marin so I only service it at my local dealership and they probably don't like me since I bought my car in Marin.. but hey! Marin had the car I wanted already on their lot! They didn't...

ok I'm just pointlessly venting... I'll keep this forum updated.

crvlvr

chazy, If I were you i would contact Acura directly and see if they will authorize the dealer to cover it under warranty. This must be a mnufacturing defect. It look like a bunch of TSXs are also having clutch problems.

Put the charge on your credit card, and then you might be able to dispute it

chazy777

Read this post better.. I've been explaining how I've been doing this. Bottom line though is this is not a manufacturer defect and I'm currently waiting for a response from Acura directly on what they can do for me STRICTLY out of "good will"

Thanks for the note on the TSX's having clutch problems though.. There have been no records that I know of with the TL's having these clutch problems though...this is what worries me and makes my case weaker in indicating of any "manufacturer defect" or "design defect"

MR1

If they charge you $2K they have you bent over the table, sorry. I think a good dealer would go to bat for you and get some assistance from Acura as well.

I don't know hat happened for sure but I do know the road and knew about the storm.
For those unfamilar with the area look up Donner Pass, Donner Summit or Donner Party. I think the only documented case of cannibalism in the US occured up there. It's a really steep grade on the CA - NV border. They don't salt the roads out here, sand only and chains required. I80 is the main road to Reno and Utah from SF, Sacramento and NorCal.

There are supposed world class ski resorts around the summit and gambling just across the boarder. The road is packed every weekend. When a storm blows through, the 2.5 hour commute from SF turns to 7-8+ hours.