ttribe

^^ None of this debate about the police is what the OP was originally bringing to the table. I'd suggest that more debate be taken over to "Ramblings"...it's not adding anything here.

2004 TL

Hello again Gents.

I have been reading some of the recent posts and I have to say that I am a little disappointed in some of you. This post is not about who is smarter than the other, whose father was a cop, or anything else. My point was to try to graphically describe what happened so that others could benefit from my experience in a way that might save someone else's life. Life is very short, and can be taken from us in a hearbeat. We need to be vigilant on the roadways to look for the unexpected and plan an escape. I always look around me for a "where will I go if" excape route even when driving on the open road. Just this evening when driving home from the office, I was thinking about one of the deals I completed today and was sharing it with my wife when an iddiot on a bike passed me at what must have been 110+ splitting traffic! I was driving 60 mph in the right hand lane when he went between myself and the car to my left. That shocked me back to reality real quick, and I pulled over to collect myself. You must know that I am not a wimp by any means. I am highly educated, earn a handsom living, have been a professional race car driver at the SCCA level, and this has really thrown me for a loop. I am seeing someone to help me through this very difficult time which has been recomended by many of you.

AGAIN, the point I am trying to make is slow down, drive defensively, stop weaving in and out of traffic, signal when changing lanes, and stop FUCKING AROUND on the roads. It makes me very angry when I see stupid things out there, and what I am worried about is the asshole who thinks he is invincible who ends up hurting or killing someone else and he gets away since he likely causes an accident , but is not in it.

Let me address the comments about the cops in this situation. They are not stupid! I manage a very large retirement fund for thousands of retired police, and firemen who have served our communities diligently and honorably for many years. In every work environment there are those that give the group a bad name be being bad influences, but in my situation there was simply a mistake made at the command level. The 6 cops chasing were TRAILING behind the guy who stole the Lumina. They were not pushing him to go faster. Rather they were pacing him. The video tapes were collected for legal reasons, as well as to make sure they would not end up on youtube. Let me be clear, the cops made a mistake in NOT stopping the pursuit once the guy passed 90 mph. When the fella went on the wrong side of the road, they would have been defacto authorized to restart the pursuit. Luckily he died in the accident also, but he killed two innocent people too.

I am alive to comment on this because the TL handled so well to my driver inputs in keeping the car from hitting anything. My racing experience definately helped, and I would strongly recommend getting additional defensive driving training if possible.

Thank you again for your support and kind comments. Drive carefully.

mishar

You are absolutely right! Not only there, but this one I like most. Only thing I can not believe is that coverup.

1FastVtec

Its nice to hear your doing ok. Sometimes things happen in life that we can't control. Theres a reason you were able to maneuver your car the way you did. The Lord has a plan for us all, and maybe it wasn't your time.

I actually had my wife sit down and read your post after I had read it, and the comment she made to me was "see, I told you Acura was the safest car"!

She swears by Honda/Acura, and I don't disagree one bit. Good luck to you and hopfully you can get through this with a clear contious.

2004 TL

Thank you for the kind thoughts. I am doing better as of late. I was contacted by the family of the poor souls that died behind me. I was taken by supprise by the call, but it was a tearful conversation for all of us. My wife was on the phone, along with both of the children of the Malibu. I was able to give them information about the accident that they would not be told by anyone else. They asked me what kind of car I was driving, and what was funny is that both of the children have TLs too! We are getting together tomorrow as three families to simply find out more about each other since we are now connected by a significant event.

One of the children (Jim) told me that he was on the same road 20 minutes later on the way to a client and was stuck in a traffic jam. He told me that he was upset that he was going to be late for his meeting, and was cursing the fool who likely caused an accident up ahead (he assumed). Little did he know his parents were dead less than a mile from where he was on the highway. He has been kicking himself for making those comments to himself since, but he realizes that he could never have known.

Ultimately, he and his brother are thankful that I am alive to tell the story. They feel that if I had been hit head on, thier parents would likely have been killed anyway, so at least something good came out of it. I told him that they are helping me deal with this immensely just by saying that.

Again, the lesson learned here is be thankful for everyday you have on this earth, don't leave home angry with your spouse because you don't know if today is your day. I am not a fatalist, but I do think we have some set plan in life. We spend our whole lives searching for what it actually is.

Good night to all of you.

Be careful.

leedogg

Another thing to be thankful for: If the TL didnt have BT and you HADNT been on hands free. You probably would have died...and just as bad, your wife may have blamed herself for having you on the phone.

2004 TL

Good point. You are right!

your_mom

Stuff like this makes me sick. Those tapes will be destroyed and the pigs will get a slap on the wrist after killing several innocent people. They should have let the dude go and picked him up later. Catching a car thief isn't worth all the death and injury. That's why we have policies (at least we do in Georgia, which isn't a particularly progressive state, so I'm assuming several others have them too) against high speed chases.

your_mom

How's life under that rock on Mars? Too bad you missed all the front page news about the FBI abusing the Patriot act and National Security Letters. Idiot.

tl_dinhsum84

thats is seriously crazy to witness that what a rush im the type of person that travels in high speeds!! but i learn from alot of traffic school!!

machoonga

wow thats crazy, glad you're ok

2004 TL

Do you have an sources for statistics on how many police chases of any kind create injuries or deaths? That would be an interesting piece of information.

2004 TL

Please slow down out there. Please!

fant0m_TL

Oh boy, you can call someone an "idiot" over the internet, eh? You're a tough guy now huh!?

Way to go... I'm glad your 31 and said that.. just proves my point... being older doesn't make you smarter.

You're cool, dude

(Note the sarcasm)

speedbawlinTL

^^ hey no need to get all pissy at each other... this is actually a serious topic so stop acting immature and don't say crap that'll make the mods close it... try replying with facts instead of personal attacks... you'll sound a lot more credible

RSA_Secure

Coincidently, this was on 20/20 last night. If I remember correctly about ~300 are killed each year, 1/3 of which are civilians. Here is a link to an article with statics from 2001.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...e-chases_x.htm

BTW, the 20/20 story was about a alleged cover up:

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=2989246

Glad to hear you were fortunate and you took your experience in the right spirit.

6MTUA5

iTrader: (2)

This is some deep shit. It has really made me think about a lot of things and the people (for the most part, excluding the arguers) have given good advice... Good stuff, good stuff.

It is insane how your mirrors touched as you passed. I woulda been like

That's crazy that the son was in traffic just a mile from where it happened. I'm glad you're OK, and it makes me feel better to know the control I will have when I get my 3G

speedbawlinTL

damn, that 20/20 incident happened on my sister's bithday (and the buildup was annoying- all they say at the end is "the driver was a new jersey state trooper" and then it's suddenly over without going into it further)

2004 TL

Thanks for keeping us on topic! Thank you.

2004 TL

Wow! I got sick to my stomach after watching that video. I am going to quote a line from NYPD Blue... "Lets be careful out there."

mishar

I think that if police let go crazy guys speeding around it will just bring more of them on the streets and roads. Alternative would be that they realize on their own that it is not nice to do what they are doing. How realistic that is? Be honest and say, if you know that police would not pursue, would you cover your plate and try that speed limiter on your TL? And you are nice guys.

On the other hand road chases are dangerous, but there is alternative: helicopters and traffic cameras. Most of chased guys don’t even know that they are chased, or better said followed. Only question is who is going to pay for that? Are you so concerned about safety that you would accept higher taxes to cover additional safety? Or you are just complaining not offering any idea?

2004 TL

I think you bring up a good point worth debating. I think that 95% of the lay public are law abiding citizens, and are simply trying to get from point A to B living their normal lives. I think that many speed limits on side or secondary roads are set correctly. This is not to say that some speed limits are intentionally posted 10-20 mph lower than they could be, but keep in mind that the average driver is just that, average. As technology continues to improve, and driving limits continue to rise, I think that there will be more and more high speed accidents as people try to drive faster than they should for the road and conditions. Around Thanksgiving of last year, I had an opportunity to get a ride in a Veyron at speeds that would be considered insane. Obviously this was prior to my accident, and now I would pass on such an experience. However, the perceived speed in that rocket sled was 40 mph lower than indicated. No, I take that back, 110 mph felt like 70 mph. There is so much potential in that car that it is a crime to not hit the gas. Now that is the hedonistic male in me speaking, not the sensible family guy talking. Keep this in mind that I have my own speed rocket (which is parked indefinately at this point), that I have yet to have the courage to drive since my accident. I am only turning it on and driving in my development at speeds less than 30 mph to keep the fluids in good shape.

Just because a car CAN travel at speeds of xxx, does not mean that we have to use it. Frankly my ideal anti road rage car is a 1970 Pontiac GTO, painted primer color grey, big fat wheels, heavy duty suspension, 650 hp 572 motor, Rue bars from and rear, 300k spot lights front and rear, and a train horn, front and rear. I figure, if someone wants to be a ass to me on the road, scaring the shit out of them with landing lights from a jet and a train horn should do the trick. I am shooting for the feeling we would get when we pass a cop and know they are coming to pull us over. That oh-shit feeling is what the average moron on the road needs to bring them back to reality. Moms picking up their kids from soccer practice, or dads going to put gas in the car and doing basic errands is what most people are trying to do on the road other than going to and from work or seeing relatives/friends.

Believe me, I love to drive, and sometimes driving home the long way just to enjoy more time behind the wheel of my TL is something I do on a regular basis. This does not mean that I drive 30 mph over the speed limit.

Cops are there to monitor and maintain safe driving conditions for the average Joe just going about their business. I have said this before, 99% of the cops do a good job for us, and keep us safe. If you think otherwise, Iraq is an example of what it would be like if we did not have the police we have now. People are car jacked regularly, attacked on the street, mugged, beaten, raped, or killed on any particular day in Iraq because there is not a large enough police force. Even though we have several hundred thousand troops over there with orders to shoot to kill, this does not stop the madness. I think that overall our police departments are doing a good job. While there is always room for improvement, lets cut them a bit of a break. They are only doing their jobs.

JoeyASPEC

Well the 1st indication of danger is that you were driving in JERSEY! lol but good to hear you're alright and praising the TL.

edit: 99% of cops do a good job for us?! Who is "us?" I'll definatelty have to disagree with you on that stat.

2004 TL

Isn't Jersey on the west coast? Ha Ha.... I was just trying to make a point that most are good folks and work hard for the public. They are people too, with families and mortgages.

speedbawlinTL

I don't get the west coast joke....

Edit: jk, wait, I do, but then after I got that, I don't get the rest of the post... ???

evantec

Three people died and the media didn't cover any of it? Even if they could keep the part about a police chase hidden, it's hard to imagine what it would take to keep the press from covering the fatalities. Between NYC and Philly and all the north and south jersey papers, and the lawyers from the families representing the next of kin who would be looking to sue someone when their loved ones didn't return... Still, there can be a price reporters pay to get access to officials, police, etc and that can mean keeping things quiet in order to get an exclusive on the next story. So a cover-up can be done. But it's a lot of work, especially to get the lawyers to go along.

Still, we all have our own ideas about JFK and Oswald and the flight which crashed in Pennsylvania on 9-11, and it's not like the official version of those events are necessarily true. After all, the one pattern that seems consistent with almost any scandal is that a big mistake is usually made to cover up a small one, and things just snowball. And then a few years later, in a courtroom somebody is saying 'Didn't anyone just think about what they were doing?'. And yet in the heat of the moment, it seemed to make sense to the parties involved.

Anyway, if this thread gets somebody to realize that driving is NOT playing Need for Speed because there are real lives involved, it's worth every word.

leedogg

Actually, there are a couple things this thread has taught me. None of them related to me speeding.

1. Dont rubberneck. Period
2. Minimize the things you are doing which could impair your attention to the road
3. Better awareness of whats going on around you and ahead of you at all times
4. know what to do, and when and how to do it.
5. Cops should be allowed to use lethal force to terminate these situations where the person is putting MANY others in immediate life threatening situations.

speedbawlinTL

well said leedogg

2004 TL

Sorry. My wife always tells me that I should not try to be funny, because I'm not. I was just trying to humorous.

2004 TL

This is small potatoes comparted to JFK and 911, but in the little worlds each of us live in, it is the small things that can impact our lives in a meaningful way. Driving slower, being cautious when entering an intersection after your light turns green (look out for the red light runner), trying not to cut someone off in traffic, and most of all RELAX. Driving 20-30 mph over the speed limit is not going to make an appreciable difference in time savings unless you are traveling for a couple of hundred miles. Otherwise, it is all acidemic.

2004 TL

Good points especially the last one.

ajdigerati

.......

1.) Free your mind from hatred.
2.) Free your heart from worries.
3.) Expect less.
4.) Give more.
5.) Enjoy what you have and don't focus on what you want.[/QUOTE]



WORD!

evantec

Apparently even being Governor of NJ does not confer any special protection on the parkway...

Gov Jon Corzine Seriously Injured in Hit-and-Run Crash on Garden State Parkway

The news story said he does not generally wear a seat belt. I think the laws of physics tend to have more severe punishments than those of the states.

soli1978

Well said. I'll write this on a piece of paper and put on my refrigerator...

Indy Paul

Glad to hear you're okay and doing better. We have experienced three fatal accidents in the Indianapolis Area as a result of people driving the wrong way on a major interstates in the last couple of months. And, none of them were fleeing the Law in a stolen car! So, just goes to show you, there are plenty of idiots to go around, and the cops aren't always to blame! So, heed all the awesome advice in this thread and be carefull out there! BTW, Thank you 2004TL for the this incredibly insightful post, it's a life lesson many don't have the opportunity to hear, so it's awesome you're here to share it with the rest of us!

2004 TL

Thanks. It is nice to hear that your family will benefit in some small way from my experience. That is what I was hoping for.

2004 TL

I really appreciate the kind words. I am finally getting back to normal and feeling more like my old self. I am not having panic attacks when approaching heavy traffic, going over bridges, or driving on higher speed two lane roads. It has been a real eye opening experience on a number of levels. Prior to the accident, I was very comfortable driving in every situation, but now I am struggling to get back to that point. I can't imagine riding a motorcycle and being so exposed, but I am only marginally more comfortable in a car. This is simple PTS as a result of the experience. I think that I have mentioned this before, that many of my friends that escaped from the WTC on 9-11 had the same PTS issues relating to other fears, such as being in tall buildings, elevators, trains, subways, etc. What I am feeling is completely normal. Part of my therapy is sharing my experiences with all of you on this website. Thank you to all of you.

darksom1

Nothing like a personal crisis to add increased perspective on your life and those around you. We are always one small or large unfortunate set of circumstances away from never seeing someone again that we have known all of our lives. Gone too soon is often the theme for that.

I won't be as verbose, as I am want to be in other threads. However, I would like to say that your personal dilemma and the one concerning the two girls, once juxtaposed, give 2 very good reasons why we shouldn't drink and drive. I don't, but I would like to think that given the set of previous circumstances mentioned, if anyone did...they would surely have not been able to avoid death! You barely did with being sober and alert. What, if anything, could you have done if you weren't? Can you imagine your wife trying to talk you home after a bout of drinking and then hearing the drama that unfolded?

People are still going to drink and drive. People are still going to speed. But perhaps, if some of those people read this story and the other one, they will do it a little less. Or not at all. So there is always a chance of a life being saved. These types of stories certainly do curb my own inveterate need for speed. I'm not saying I don't, but not at a total disregard for those around me! Someone will reflect on this in their traumatic hour and realize the epiphany you did. Good luck to you and your loved ones, and to those of the victims of this tragedy.

My faith in the TL is fortified with this story. My knowledge that man is not infallible is as well.