robsond

Buying TL...

Can someone help me out here...I have had manual cars, but I am tempted to get TL AT due to different interior colors...

Can someone help me justify any of them ?
How does Sequential SportShift work for you ?

rgr

I just (today) traded my 99 TL for 05 TL AT Navi. Have owned MT cars before, but there are several reasons why I went with AT:
1. Less hassle in every-day (rush hour etc.) driving.
2. Main reason for MT was better control over engine, easier to stay/get to "meaty" part of torque curve. The sportshift allows you virtually the same control with a simle tap of the shif lever - giving you the best of both worlds.
3. ALthough I have not experienced it, ample torque in TLs apparently causes excessive torque steer, which is much more noticable with MT. (Thereby reducing the "fun-to-drive" factor, which is one of the key reasons that people get MT in the first place.)
If I bought a rear-wheel drive sports car I would get MT, but for a sporty sedan AT with sportshift is the way to go.

gregory28_RENAMED

Great response here. I agree with every point. I'm quite happy with AT sports shift. The only time I don't use it is when on my cell phone.

Will Y.

I chose the TL w/5AT over the TSX(6 speed manual), G35 (manual and auto) and RX-8 (6 speed manual), mostly because my wife drives an auto. I (still) have a 5-speed manual Integra. I do not miss having a manual at all in the TL.
The car has enough power that you won't need SS mode even for freeway on-ramps. The AT is so slick, transparent and intuitive that I haven't bothered with it in normal commuting (but no experience with canyon running yet). If you hold a higher rpm in a particular gear, the SS mode will hold you in gear without upshifting. Otherwise, the SS is unnecessary.
The AT is going to cost about 0.5-0.8 seconds on 0-60 compared to a manual (less than, if not same as, most cars in auto v. manual). No Brembos though (but AT gets less brake dust than the MT) and the better "summer hi-performance" tires are not really a stated option with the AT.

Adobeman

Sorry, I can't totally agree.

point 1) Yes, if you are in heavy traffic all the time then AT is a lot easier to deal with. For the few times I get stuck in traffic I'll take the MT.

point 2) MT will always give you more control since you alone will determine where to shift. The AT sport shift is good but not the same as MT by any means. Some have reversed the wiring on the AT sport shift to get up shifts and downshifts to be more "normal" As I recall from my AT test drive forwards selects higher numbered gears and backwards selects lower numbered gears. To many, including me, that's just bass aackwards. Luckily it is an easy fix if you wish.

3) Torque steer will not get in your way of having fun. After having several FWD MTs (Saabs) the TL has much more power and less torque steer. It just isn't as bad as it is made out to be. Let's face it...are you really going to put that much power into the wheels all the time ? Be honest.

In the end I do have to say that while I really like the MT, and am very glad I got it, I can see the TL as one of the only cars I have had where an AT would also be a good driver. In the past, with 4cyl Saabs, AT was just not worth owning but MT was.

If you have always had MTs and are trying to rationalize an AT then don't. Just get the MT.

SouthernBoy

If the TL was not available with a manual transmission, I never would have bought it. Simple fact is.. I will not even consider the purchase of a personal driving machine without a manual transmission. I freely admit to a VERY strong bias in favor of manual transmissions for a variety of reasons. And I have to tell you, the manual in the TL makes is a whole different car.

I should know.. I own two of them. Mine is an '04 and my wife's (jointly owned) is an '05 auto.

But then again, if you have to question, perhaps you're really in the market for an automatic.

argarre

Just got a '05 MT a few weeks ago.

I went into the dealership planning on getting an AT TL but ended up leaving with a MT TL because they seemed like two different cars.

The manual had a lot of hesitation and didn't feel that quick whereas the manual felt (using the reliable seat of the pants gauge) MUCH faster!

It was a no-brainer because the AT performance left me wanting for more.

ericajackhannahjamie?

Every now and then, a member would ask this question. "AT or MT", my answer will always be MT. It's more fun, and gives you something to do. I feel that I have more in control with MT.

3PUTT

i do not get it...AT "because of different interior colors".

i thought the color combos are the same AT or MT.

Hawhyen51

Not another MT vs AT thread! Discussed way too many times. Here are a couple of threads for you, believe me there's more. Search is your firend. Good Luck in your decision.

https://acurazine.com/forums/ramblings-12/wireless-router-unavailable-frequently-112363/
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107386
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99328
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94005
https://acurazine.com/forums/car-parts-sale-361/fs-95-legend-ls-6-speed-coupe-92060/
https://acurazine.com/forums/car-talk-5/revolutionary-new-high-performance-hybrid-technology-lexus-90842/
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90937
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83097

Legend2TL

6MT, if you drive mostly in the city I can see getting a 5AT.
But this car is way too much fun to drive with a 6MT.

JERU

I came from a manual 96 Maxima, so I am a bit biased. After driving the TL manual, no question it is the way to go. The shiftgate just feels expensive, drive one and you will know what I mean. I can never go back to an Automatic, I would get to bored pushing gas, brake, gas, brake. They even threw in Handsfree Link to eliminate any legitimate excuses. And for anyone who thinks paddles and buttons can replace working a clutch and timing shifts, night and day. Not even worthy of a discussion. Want a automatic, get a Buick. I will keep my manual

JackSprat01

That's a tad extreme don't you think? Even Southernboy who has two , count them TWO Third gen TLs and is the most extreme 6MT poster here let his wife get the auto. Besides, I doubt he'd "get any" ever again if he bought her a frigging Buick!

ndx2

Jeru, hope you can deal with all the shit you're gonna get from the 5AT owners... this oughtta be fun.

Anyway, get the MT if and only if you want it. Not because you can, or "heard" it was more fun, etc. I never had an MT, but absolutely wanted one. SS mode is cool, and does the job of holding the gear, but honestly, it's not the same. Getting an AT just because of int. color sounds a bit weird to me, btw. Maybe you should ask the dealer to check other dealers' lots?

JackSprat01

Ok, here is the final word on all this "interior color" talk.



You can get anything you want with any tranny, you just have to look. Since only 10% of TLs are 6MT it is a bit more difficult, especially to find 6MT Camel, but I wouldn't settle for less so I got off my ass and found it. So can anyone.

IL_TL

I hate to get in on this debate, however I own 2 TLs as well. One 5AT and one 6MT. My wife's 5AT is OK to drive, and drives great. Downside is that the 2000 TL 5AT and the 2004 5AT we have had feels weak.

The 5AT does feel strong off the line but in everyday driving situations it sometimes acts strange. Best expalined as if the transmission is guessing how and when you want it to shift, but guessing incorrectly. For most driving situations it acts fine.

The 6MT torque steer issue is crap. Our 5AT has worse TS than the 6MT, especially if you get on it without VSA on. It also happens coming out of a turn with heavy throttle, and anytime the wheel is turned left or right with heavy throttle.

The 6MT has a LSD so power is going to BOTH front wheels (not completely locked but well well distributed).

The 5AT is only driving ONE front wheel which seems to result in more torque steer than the manual.

You need to make the decision based on what you prefer to drive, type of driving you do, and ability of those that will be driving the car.

AcidHorse

The choice of having a manual 6 speed must and should supercede and override the type of interior appointments you want to have.

that's all there is to it.

IL_TL

I hate to get in on this debate, however I own 2 TLs as well. One 5AT and one 6MT. My wife's 5AT is fine, and drives great. That said the previous 2000 TL 5AT and our current 2004 5AT feels a bit weak.

The 5AT does feel strong off the line but in everyday driving situations it sometimes acts strange. Best expalined as if the transmission is guessing how and when you want it to shift, but guessing incorrectly. For most driving situations it acts fine. BTW, my wife cannot drive a MT. She does not understand the engine/clutch/transmission relationship and would never appreciate the feeling of the MT.

The 6MT torque steer issue is crap. Our 5AT has worse TS than the 6MT, especially if you get on it without VSA on. It also happens coming out of a turn with heavy throttle, and anytime the wheel is turned left or right with heavy throttle.

The 6MT has a LSD so power is going to BOTH front wheels (not completely locked but well well distributed).

The 5AT is only driving ONE front wheel which seems to result in more torque steer than the manual.

You need to make the decision based on what you prefer to drive, type of driving you do, and ability of those that will be driving the car.

NFLblitze1

I Recommend getting Manual, its just so much more fun, i regret not waiting to get a manual, the only reason i got an auto was because they didn't have any MT's on the lot and if i wanted one WITH NAVIGATION, SILVER with BLACK interior, then i was gonna have to wait a few months and wait i did not want. but it all boils down to whats best. if you live in the city or are constantly in traffic through your everyday routine travels. then maybe you should get AT. but otherwise, i would recommend MT.

Brettg

The wife and I got the manual trans car.
We drove both, and found:

The manual transmission was MUCH more fun,

The clutch on the manual trans cars is nice, that is, it is not uncomfortable
to use like some cars are (pedal/seat placement?).

The manual trans car seemed to us to be much quieter and smoother
under normal driving, we drove a brand new a/t car, it had like 5 miles on it,
and the engine seemed to rev way up under moderate throttle, maybe
the ecu did not adapt yet.

We both thought the auto trans TL was not special at all, might as well get an accord.

There are lots of problems reported with the auto trans, vibrations
(there is a tsb), and outright failures.

The manual trans cars have the LSD and bigger sway bars, plus the
brembo brakes!

Brett

SamiaM68

I traded my 04' TSX for a 05' 6MT TL because the TSX got kinda boring... The TSX was my first AT since HS, but I figured w/200HP & Auto-shift it would still be fun to drive. I don't see another automatic tranny in my future for quite sometime...

bluenose

Interesting idea on the LSD driving both front wheels. You don't suppose its possibile the LSD transfers power from one wheel to the other depending on which might have the most traction

ndx2

Actually, it's been argued that LSD exacerbates the torque steer on the TL (I don't know about other cars, though), particularly during off-the-line acceleration. Cornering is where it matters.

IL_TL

Turn off VSA and hammer the throttle on a 5AT, one wheel will spin, it is possible that it will alternate back and forth quickly making it look sort of like both are grabbing. To make things worse the 5AT will put the power to the wheel with the LEAST traction. It is a fact for all open differentials that do not have a traction control device (meaning that some vehicles, like the Hummer H1, use the ABS system to apply the brake to the wheel that is spinning). That is why the inside wheel spins when cornering. The weight has shifted to the outside wheel, making the inside have less traction and break free.

Next get in a 6MT, off with the VSA, rev, drop the clutch, and watch both fronts relieve the tires of their tread. That is the LSD (a friction clutch type I believe) doing its thing. The LSD is just that though, "Limited" slip, some will occur every time you make a turn.

When off-roading (drag racers as well) many use a locker. The locker (air, or mechanical) allows no slip between the two front or two rear wheels when it is engaged. In a Jeep Rubicon this can be done by pressing a switch on the dash. Press once and it locks the rear, twice and the front and rear axles are locked. All 4 wheels turn the same and is only for loose surfaces (mud, dirt, snow).

Fourth option is a spool. In this scenario the spider gears in a differential are welded and the differential is no longer "differential. Go around a turn and the outside tire will chirp as it tries to keep up with the slower turning inside wheel (when making a turn one wheel travels around the turn further than the other). This is generally for off-road only vehicles, or 1/4 mile only cars.

Want more info? Go about halfway down this page .

And finally, I notice more torque steer in our 5AT then the 6MT. Some reviewers may feel differently.

ekumar

hey now... my Buick has a manual transmission... and my TL has an auto, and I am pleased with both...

tejesh83

I was in the same boat. I wanted the 6 speed Nav, but color choices were limited. I was almost ready to settle for AT or 6sp w/o nav or other color combos. But instead I kept expanding my search window until I located one. I had to drive a couple hours to and from, but I brought home my blk/blk 6sp Nav today!

JackSprat01

What Buick???

ekumar

1940 Straight Eight Super, sedan. Frankly, I find my Buick to be a much more "interesting" car than my TL. I just wanted to point out that generalized statement regarding Buicks. I am no fan of their current cars, but some of their past cars, their history, is rather interesting, so watch those generalizations.

JackSprat01

That's a very nice ride by the way, certainly no offense intended to that classic. Nor the Grand Nationals either for that matter!