Have any AT owners thought of switching to the much larger front & rear MT bars? According to the manual the rear looks to be a simple change - just new bar and bushings. The front is a different story - book says to first "lower sub frame" since bar rides on top of cradle. (I'd just change to the MT rear bar but am not sure of the effect of stiffing up one end while leaving the other stock)

 

A thicker front sway bar is going to make the car understeer even more. Wouldn't do it. The rear bar should swap out pretty easily.

 

NOT!

The steering attitude on the six speed is completely neutral. If pushed all 4 wheels will drift nicely. All the bar will do is further minimize bobbing and body lean.

 

Automatic
Front: Diameter (25.4 mm) x (4.5 mm) wall thickness
Rear Diameter, solid (17.0 mm)

Manual
Front: Diameter (27.2 mm) x (5.0 mm) wall thickness
Rear: Diameter, solid (20 mm)

You will need the bars and all 4 bushings 2 for each bar.

This bars are easy to change, the rear is easier but the front is not a challange.

They have silicon bushings that will also help increase handling in comparison to the rubber bushings.

I'm not 100% sure but this is my best guess:

For MT

Front: 20mm profuct number 9.5124R

Rear: 27mm produc number 9.5111R

R = RED G = Black

Energy Suspension ®
1131 Via Callejon, San Clemente, California 92673-6230 USA
Phone 1(949)361-3935 Fax 1(949)361-3940
E Mail-hyperflex@energysuspension.com Web Site- http://www.energysuspension.com

 

Are you saying increasing the diameter of the front sway bar DOESN'T increase understeer? If you are, you'd be WRONG.

 

Yeah I don't know we he got the understeer from

 

Why would it

 

Well, let me ask you this: What does a thicker rear sway bar do? In a front/front car, which inherently has moderate to excessive understeer, I'd only get a bigger rear sway bar so it's easier to swing the rear end out.

In classic Harddriven1le style:

http://www.wprince.com/CARSETUPGUIDE.htm

 

Admittedly, I've never driven the 5AT so I don't know the difference between that and the 6MT. (I'm assuming the bigger sway bars are the only suspension difference). In my 6MT, I wouldn't consider a thicker front sway bar.

 

Sway bars help decrease body roll by I would call it resistance or tension (flex) of the bar.

The bar will do nothing when both sides go up at the same time. For example going over a bump going straight.

If you go over a bump in an angle one wheel will cross the bump first, the sway bar the connects the R and L suspension will hold that side down helping body roll. This is the same theory when cornering. BTW the sway bars are attach to the frame.

A thicker sway bar will have less tendency to flex thus decreasing body roll even further.

How thick do you want sway bars, well they have their negative factors (not understeer).

The best way to visulize this is by putting your arms up in front of you at chest level then move your elbows parallel to your shoulders. Your arms are now the sway bars.

At the tip of your hands there is a link to the suspension that allows some movement. Your shoulders are the bushings connecte to the car (body)

Now as your are driving straight and you go over a bump your suspension will compress both hands point up with pivot on your elbows and down when the suspension decompresses (pass bump)

This is the fun part. now lets think only one side compresses (cornering) only point one hand up, but remeber is all one part from the tip of one hand to the other so the hand that you did not point up should point down (flex).

Imagine a thicker sway bar would do less flexing keeping the car on the ground while cornering less floating (body roll)

I hope you understand.

 

This is what they said:

Increase front rate Front roll resistance increases, increasing understeer or decreasing oversteer. May also reduce camber change, allowing better tire contact patch compliance with the road surface, reducing understeer.

Increase rear rate Rear roll resistance increases, increasing oversteer or decreasing understeer. On independent rear suspensions, may also reduce camber change, allowing better contact patch compliance with road surface, reducing oversteer.

Well if you do it right like acura engineers did it and using the same setup from the 6MT......neither oversteer nor understeer should change just decrease body roll, because front and rear bar compensate each other, like the website said bold.

Now if you are stupid and change just the rear from 17mm to 25mm then you are changing the charsteristics of the car unless you want that result.

The guy asked to updgrade the sways from the MT to the AT so I don't see oversteer or understeer to be a problem

 

What!? The sway bar is connected to the suspension, not the frame. Are you confusing a strut bar with a sway bar? With sway bars, bigger isn't necessarily better. Like I said I never drove the AT. For me on my 6MT, I wouldn't consider getting a bigger front sway bar. The car understeers as it is, so I would just get a bigger rear sway bar. You have to consider what the car is doing; where is it deficient. Front/front cars understeer. If you want a balanced car, you have to figure out how to increase the oversteer.

 

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/framed.../Swabarra.html

UNDERSTEER
Too large front bar vs rear sway bar
Too small front tires or narrow rim width
Heavy front weight bias
Narrow front track
Too stiff front springs
Low front tire pressure
Oversize rear tires
Steep roll axis

OVERSTEER
Too large rear vs front sway bar
Raised rear end
Undersized tires or narrow rims
Low rear tire pressure
Large rear overhang
Too stiff rear springs

 

Of course, I'd change the springs and shocks, or get coilovers, before fooling around with the sway bars anyway.

 

are you stupid or something ????????????

It is conected to the suspension of course, but it wouldn't do it's job unless it was also connected to the frame with bushings that allows some movement.
Look under your car

As far as TIE bars both upper or lower....upper also call strut bars because they are attached to the strut tower and no I'm not talking about them. They just connect the frame on weak points for less flexing.

 

What's with the insult? Nice. If you don't think increasing the front sway bar by itself doesn't increase understeer, then I don't know what to tell you -- you're living in a fog.

 

Yes, you are right. My comment was based on your statement that the bar was mounted to the frame. I thought you meant ONLY the frame. Sorry. The mount to the frame is the pivot point for the sway bar but the majority of the force acts through the bar and at the connection to the suspension. BTW, can we keep this conversation civil without calling each other stupid?

 

Peace brothers. The sway bar reeduces body roll thus enabling the car to maintain a flatter attitude in corners and thus a larger contact patch. The strut bar is a body reinforcement to decrease its twisting and thus isolate the suspension further from the chassis. It allows more precise suspension tuning since the body flex factor is minimized. Understeer and over steer can be induced by varying any of those factors independently. A bigger bar or a stiffer spring anywhere will not in it by itsself do one or the other.

 

I'm just basing it on suspension setup guides and my own experiences autocrossing. I noticed that on a front/front car (which is the only type of cars I've autocrossed), increasing the diameter of front sway bar with no other changes caused the front to push more and increasing the diameter of the rear will cause the rear end to come out easier.