sammieboy

I've had my 6sp for a month now and have enjoyed my MT very much. But in the back of my mind, one thing seems to always loom and haunt me.............

Well, lets put it this way...this is my very first MT car...ever. And I have done some incredibly dumb things.........like trying to downshift from 5th gear to 4th gear but instead, missing the 4th gear and going into 2nd gear. I have done this twice. I am afraid that this may have caused some damage to my engine (oh please tell me it aint so!).

I have not noticed anything different about my car or my engine. My car runs fine and it doesnt make any funny noises. So should I be worried about this? Did downshifting into the wrong gear screw up my engine? Please tell me that I'm fine and that the car was built to endure some newbie abuse like my case.

wistfulsteve

It's totally fine. Actually it's funny I should stumble across this thread cause just today I tried "dry shifting" (shifting without letting the clutch back out) into 2nd when I was going 60 on the highway, just to see if the gears would even mesh. If it's really too much for the transmission/engine to handle, it won't even shift at all, but it went into 2nd pretty easy. Besides, the 0-60 tests for the TL involve one gearshift (it was built that way), so the TL's tranny is meant to handle 60 mph in 2nd gear with ease. So long as your tachometer wasn't too deep into red territory, then you're fine. Welcome to the world of sport sedans =)

jeffie7

Try to make a point not to do that.

Ron A

The computer won't let your tach go into the red territory. It has a rev limiter and when you hit the redline it will cut the engine on and off. The first time you feel it doing that it will scare the hell out of you, but there was no harm done.

jeffie7

holy bad info batman!

Your rev limiter will not let your engine rev past the revline. however when your wheels are turning your motor for you and you force it into gear there's no way to keep your engine from spinning up past redline. That's why theres videos of people out there spinning their cars up to 13KRPM and blowing holes in the sides of the blocks.

You could turn the motor off when driving at 100MPH, put the car into 1st gear and pop the clutch out, trust me, even with the motor off, it will still spin up to whatever RPM first gear at the MPH would reach.

either the wheels lock up, or the motor spins up to the RPM it needs to go to keep up with the wheels.

a computer cannot limit that no matter how smart.

Laxplaya11385

don't listen to wistfulsteve. skipping gears is almost always bad (i say almost always b/c i believe 5th and 6th don't have syncros, so there's less risk in skipping into those gears). downshifting into the wrong gear is a LOT worse, mostly b/c by mis-shifting, and releasing the clutch, you are actually riding the clutch (big no no).

blueglows

thats right...he is probably thinking about sport shifting in AT or when you just floor it and are up shifting and it hits the rev lim. However it does not do it when you are downshifting in a MT...

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

In an auto TL, this would be true because the TCM is overseeing the transmission operation. It will prevent the downshift from happening in the first place.

However, with a manual transmission, nothing's going to help you if you misshifted into a lower gear. It won't matter if the computer cut the fuel. As soon as the clutch is engaged, the speed of the wheels will speed up the engine revs. Since the engine isn't balanced enough to handle that kind of high revving, it'll start throwing rods, and the valves will hit the piston (J-series is an interference engine).

Pictures speak a thousand words. My friend's B18C5, due to a cam gear failure while dyno-tuning. This is pretty much what you will see if you misshift.

PoochaKannInc

Skipping gears is not "bad". By downshifting into second instead of fourth, and releasing the clutch...riding the clutch is not the major issue (if it is the issue at all).

I believe you are ok in your case because you were probably going a low enough speed that second gear could handle it without taking your engine past redline. However, I doubt that you rev matched it, so your car probably bucked like a crazed bull and you have added some more wear to the clutch, synchros and drivetrain.

However, say you were traveling at 90 mph in 5th and downshifted to second, and actually released the clutch. Say goodbye to your engine. It would attempt to rev to the amount of revolutions for 90 mph in second gear. Which would be way past the red.

A bit of advice regarding downshifting, besides being careful until you get the hang of it, dowshifting from 5 to 4 should be smooth. I assume you had to FORCE it into 2nd (unless you were going at a low enough speed, or you double clutched it). You can use the "force" it takes for you to slam it into gear to tell you whether you just picked the right one.

Good luck.

p.s. here are the cliffnotes:
-At a higher speed your engine would have been toast. I think you were ok in this situation, but it didn't have to end this way.

PoochaKannInc

Oh more advice here. I think I see your problem with the shift. Since fourth is to the left of 5 & 6, you are probably pulling the shifter to the left and down. Shifting from 5 to 4 should "almost" be a straight shift downward with a subtle pull to the left (but not much). Remember that from 5 to 6 you are almost pushing all the way to the right (since we have a reverse lockout its not really any issue).

sammieboy

Poocha, yeah I was doing about 45-50 in 5th Gear and then I shifted into 2nd gear... The engine was not redlined at all. I feel better now!

jmbnova

those pictures make me want to cry...

PoochaKannInc

I did cry and then threw up a little.

j/k.

kosh2258

I'd be less concerned about the damaging the engine and more so that you'll shell a synchronizer doing that too often. Not RPM matching will wear the clutch friction plate, as mention elsewhere, causing premature wear.

Learn the feel of the shifter. It's spring loaded to center in the 3/4 gate. You'll feel resistance to the left if you're heading for the 1/2 gate and to the right if you're heading for the 5/6 side. Downing from the 5/6 towards 3/4 just let the lever center and then either pull down or push up. Don't try to "steer it" or you'll overshoot into the 1/2 gate.

Learning to shift properly takes practice. Resist the temptation (we all do it) to play Danica Patrick with the shifter until you've become comfortable with the process. It takes a while to learn the technique.

your_mom

BTW, missed shifts like a 5 to 2 downshift are NOT covered under warranty and Big Brother (the ECU) is watching and will tell the dealer what happened. There was a thread about it a while back, it happened to someone in a Honda Accord who had to buy a new engine.

sammieboy

i have since mastered shifting.......the mistake occured in the first 2 weeks. I have no problems shifting now.

PoochaKannInc

^ Here's a quote someone told me when I first started driving a stick.

"Driving a manual is an art. It takes a week to learn, but a lifetime to master". There are always things to learn how to do better.

I'm still learning.

sammieboy

okay, i guess mastered is the wrong term.. but i have since never downshifted into 2nd from 5th.

And the two times that i have done this.... i hope doesnt screw up my car.. it shouldnt right? I'm sure the car is built for some wear and tear for newbies like me. But now since I can drive the car 10000 times better.... i should be okay. hopefully

SouthernBoy

Obviously your engine and the rest of the drive train survived. However, this is something you most definitely do not want to be doing. The gates are close so it's not too difficult to make the mistake you did (I've done this myself a few times with my TL, but as soon as I start releasing the clutch, I KNOW I've screwed up).

Let me guess. When you downshift, this is what you do.

1. Release your foot from the throttle.
2. Move the shifter into the chosen lower gear.
3. Start slowly releasing the clutch.

If this is the method of downshifting you are doing, not only are you downshifting improperly (you should never downshift like this), but a 5th to 2nd gear downshift done like this will cause a fair amount of wear to the synchronizers, clutch plate, pressure plate, and flywheel. Not to the point of sudden failure but certainly more than a lot of miles with proper operation would normally account for.

Follow this link to Post #11 and read some pointers on the proper operation of a manual transmission. I hope this gets you started on the road to correctly using your tranny. Since you are new at the game, you want to develop good and proper habits.. not some told or taught to you by someone who has already developed bad ones.

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...t=downshifting

SouthernBoy

Whoever told you that the TL manual transmission has no synchronizers in 5th and 6th gears did you a disservice. Our transmissions are fully synchronized in all forward gears and even in reverse.

I would bet a week's salary that there are no passenger cars sold in the United States with manual transmissions missing synchronizers in any forward gears.

sammieboy

I think I will refrain from downshifting and just use the damn brakes.... i'm scared my car is screwed up now. .... SAD... IM SO SAd.............

Laxplaya11385

I actually think that I read that somewhere on this forum hahaha.

You only learn from your mistakes. If you read through SouthernBoy's post and practice, you will get it down in no time.

sammieboy

Just tell me this.........if i keep from screwing up anymore.. my car will be okay right?

SouthernBoy

Take it easy, watch what you're doing, and concentrate. I'm sure you'll do fine. Don't be scared of your car, but then again, try to really put things together.

It's really a nice machine and one heck of a joy to drive with the manual transmission. Once you get it all down, you'll be glad you took the decision to go with the manual.

I have a very high stress job (I'm a software engineer on a tight and very demanding project). Driving my TL home is the first part of my end-of-day relaxation. The second one is getting home to a place I really like.. a nice house, a nice wife, and a great bunch of neighbors. Being able to get in my car at the end of a hard day is something I really look forward to. You will, too.