JonDeutsch

http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/jo...=11040&src=vip

8.5 out of 10 ain't bad. It seems, though, the whole FWD thing is going to permeate every article on the damned car until it's retired.

Where were all of these FWD bigots when reviewing the CL-S, hmmmm?

Note: also on MSN Autos, the new 5 series gets an 8 out of 10.

Jon

gregory28

Nice review by Ann Job. Very favorable. Thanks for posting the link here. However, her three "cons" are hilarious:

No S-Type anymore- this car is a much better than the '03 S-Type; and it's a brand new model, why would they sell a competing model at the outset. I'm sure they'll be one in a couple of years.

Starting price is higher by at least $2k over old model- it's worth at least $2K over the old model, it's a much better car- she delineated the reasons in her review.

Still fwd platform- how's this a huge negative? There are M-B's, BMW's and Lexus's in the garage this weekend in NJ due to the snow. I think the TL handles very good without the rwd in wet/dry conditions.

What's the deal with the CL-S comment, Jon?

JonDeutsch

Oh, it actually wasn't intended to be a CL-S comment, it's intended to be a comment on the lemming-like talking points that every reviewer now feels he/she needs to point out to be a "legitimate" reviewer.

My point is: Where was all of the "it's not a RWD" outrage last year when people very favorably reviewed the CL-S's drivetrain?
For instance, here's MSN Auto's review of the CL/CL-S this year:

http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/je...=10345&src=vip

Notice how the RWD vs. FWD "problem" is addressed in this review. Very neutral and fact-based. Actually, it's a positive spin on the "problem."

Why, one wonders, is the new TL's FWD orientation now the new "gotcha" with the car? Granted, these are different reviewers, so we can't do a true back to back. But it still confuses me that no one is willing to say that this is a unique offering in the sport-sedan field... a true FWD sports sedan.

I continue to scratch my head as to why everyone is so focused on what it's not: a RWD sedan?

If I wanted the best performing RWD sedan, I'd buy a Bimmer. Clearly, if I'm shopping for a TL, I'm looking for something different.

Maybe it's Acura's fault for continuing to say that they targeted the 530i as their point of reference for performance. In fact, now that I think of it, that's most likely the issue.

Jon

SCWells72

Actually I remember MANY CL-S reviews and comparisons where they pointed out its FWD nature as a drawback. However, just like the 04 TL, they stated that it was a great car IN SPITE of that aspect because of the rest of the package and the pricing.

Face it, auto enthusiasts are going to point out FWD as a deficit to any car that has sporting aspirations, especially the larger ones, less dedicated ones, i.e., it's more of an issue on a TL than on an RSX. This isn't something new in the auto industry since the introduction of the 04 TL.

JonDeutsch

OK, then what's Acura's response to this 'critique' and common knowledge in the auto industry?

SCWells72

Well, if you look at Honda/Acura, the two dedicated sports cars they've built have been RWD, namely the S2000 and the NSX. The Integra (particularly in Type-R configuration) and the RSX (again, particularly Type-S) are the closest FWD cars they have had to "pure" sports cars. Otherwise they're building cars that:

1) share common platforms to reduce development and implementation costs where those platforms have to apply to their base model, e.g., the Accord, and

2) offer a blend of sportiness and comfort with a tendency to lean toward the latter.

If you look at what the other Japanese luxury makes, they have supplemented their FWD models with RWD sporting-oriented models at the same pricepoint, namely the IS300 for the ES300 and the G35 for the I35. In fact, Infiniti is going all RWD/FWD once they phase out the I35. The ES300 is too big a seller for Lexus to phase it out, though.

For a while it sounded like Acura was leaning toward RWD on the new RL, but the latest I've heard, that won't be the case. To me this will continue to be a large strike against them for anyone shopping the flagship luxury sedan market. It will keep the RL competing against the S80s of the world instead of against the S-Classes, 7-Series, LS's, etc.

I still hold out hope that Acura will go the Audi route and add AWD to their FWD chassis instead of either staying with FWD forever or trying to convert to RWD. Who knows, though?

JonDeutsch

Agreed... AWD seems like the ideal solution to all of these issues. One even wonders why RWD is considered so wonderful now that AWD is a viable alternative.

SCWells72

Well, from a handling perspective there are still some advantages to RWD over AWD, plus AWD adds significant weight which has to be offset by power if you want the same performance (not handling) characteristics as an equivalent RWD vehicle.

Personally I still prefer the driving feel of a properly balanced and sprung RWD car to FWD or even AWD, but I'm in TX and don't have to contend with the weather. If I were in a more inclement climate I'd probably lean toward something like a G35x, Audi S4, or Audi A6 2.7T.

JonDeutsch

Ahhh, and there's the rub. We just shovelled ourselves out of a foot of snow up here in Philly...

This is why I've always shied away from RWD cars. I'd only consider a Quattro or "x" series Infi or Bimmer. Of course, you're also talking upwards of $40k at that point for those vehicles.

All that said, I'm still probably going to buy a TL. That 60% weight on the front wheels will help with traction in the snow.

gregory28

My fwd '04 TL has done very well in the snowy hills of NJ the last few days.

partagas

Guys, if ou want the best handling, quit jawing and go get a 330i, I did. I love it for 330i-ing. It handles circles around Audis and G35s but, it ain't a TL for commuting, travelling and family or business use. It's better than an Audi or a G35 at anything, well, the coupe G35 seems to be less dangerous than the sedan but the coupe is a pure toy. The sedan can't touch the TL for room, comfort, predictable handling, noise, stereo, travelling, etc, etc.

DISRUPTV

next rl will not be FWD


rumored to be awd


btw, acura's awd system vtm-4 is very compact and adds alomost no weight penalty compared 2 a traditional awd system i.e. quatrro, 4matic etc...the question is whether their can be a performance version of vtm4 adopted 4 acura cars

vtec 6300

All these car reviewers can't find much at fault with the new TL so they have to say either this car doesnt handle as good as a BMW because it's FWD or the trunk is smaller than its competitors.