mobil 1 shortage....
11-10-2008, 06:31 PM
#41
Team Owner
its just as much a true synthetic as castrol, valvoline, penzoil, quaker state, and any other major oil companies synthetic offering.....so if mobil 1 isnt than either are the others...amsoil, silkolene, redline, motol, and others are not what i would call major oil companies in the eyes of the average consumer....
You are right that most (not all) of the others are guilty of using the "legal" definition.
In fact, in Amsoil's literature, their XL line which is a group III oil is not labeled as a synthetic.
11-10-2008, 06:33 PM
#42
Team Owner
IIRC, the Mobile1 High Mileage formulas are "true" synthetic.
I guess the difference with the Mobil1 we always discuss is that by a *legal* definition it is a "synthetic" oil, but by a scientific definition it is NOT a "synthetic" oil and it is labeled by what the law allows, not what the science allows.
Of course it is not *just* Mobile1 that uses this to thier advantage, but most of the other OTC "synthetics" too.
BTW - I thought this was pretty well understood. I am surprised there is so much enmity about it.
I guess the difference with the Mobil1 we always discuss is that by a *legal* definition it is a "synthetic" oil, but by a scientific definition it is NOT a "synthetic" oil and it is labeled by what the law allows, not what the science allows.
Of course it is not *just* Mobile1 that uses this to thier advantage, but most of the other OTC "synthetics" too.
BTW - I thought this was pretty well understood. I am surprised there is so much enmity about it.
11-10-2008, 06:33 PM
#43
Cruiser
interesting, I was under the impression that Mobil was a true "fully synthetic" oil...anyway, even if it's not "fully synthetic" is it the best OTC oil to use? I've seen many threads on this site about the test that have been conducted and the conclusion have been it was the best OTC...
11-10-2008, 06:40 PM
#44
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The link posted to the 350Z forum indicates that Mobil changed their formula to take advantage of the legal definition of a synthetic. I thought I'd seen/heard that before as well, but wasn't sure.
11-10-2008, 06:55 PM
#45
Team Owner
I totally understood what you were saying. And I've read it here and/or seen references to this previously, which is why assumed most of the "regulars" would be aware of the distinction.
The link posted to the 350Z forum indicates that Mobil changed their formula to take advantage of the legal definition of a synthetic. I thought I'd seen/heard that before as well, but wasn't sure.
The link posted to the 350Z forum indicates that Mobil changed their formula to take advantage of the legal definition of a synthetic. I thought I'd seen/heard that before as well, but wasn't sure.
It sounds like what I heard; M1 was a true synthetic, fought the company that labeled their grp III as synthetic and when they lost in court, they started making grp III labeled as synthetic and charging the same price.
11-10-2008, 06:59 PM
#46
You, see vinneir6 i am not stupid, and just to prove it more, read this link- http://www.my350z.com/forum/engine-d...ad-sticky.html
11-10-2008, 09:14 PM
#47
B16 Swapped TL
You, see vinneir6 i am not stupid, and just to prove it more, read this link- http://www.my350z.com/forum/engine-d...ad-sticky.html
Lol........
While you may be right.... there is still nothing wrong with using Mobil1. Its a great oil
11-10-2008, 09:40 PM
#48
Drifting
You can't really call a Group-III non-synthetic simply because it is a "highly refined" dino oil, because one could argue that Group IV PAO are technically also highly refined dino oil since PAO base stock is made from Xylene gas. Xylene gas starts life as dino oil. Xylene gas is obtained by steam cracking dino oil.
Group IV contains less unwanted contaminants than a Group-III, but the presence or absence of those contaminants does not determine if the end result is more "synthetic" or natural. Both are "synthetic", produced by different means to achieve different levels of purity.
Think of it this way... You can make hydrogen gas in different ways.. You can use H20, and do electrolysis, and get Oxygen and Hydrogen.
Or you can steam crack Natural Gas, and get Carbon Monoxide and Hydrogen.
But anyways.... Mobil-1 is not a bad oil. Personally, the reason I don't use Pennsoil, is because I refuse to buy their products knowing that they also own DuraLube (or was it Slick50, I forget which), which is the biggest snake-oil product which is actually detrimental for your car's engine, but that's a rant for another day.
11-10-2008, 09:54 PM
#51
You, see vinneir6 i am not stupid, and just to prove it more, read this link- http://www.my350z.com/forum/engine-d...ad-sticky.html
just kidding dude...its all good, i really dont give a shit anymore as i have reached the point of being hammered....
11-10-2008, 10:01 PM
#52
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Check out this link. http://www.bestsynthetic.com/
It will show you why Amsoil is the best. Go to the bubble on the left that says educate. This should answer some questions.
It will show you why Amsoil is the best. Go to the bubble on the left that says educate. This should answer some questions.
11-10-2008, 10:57 PM
#53
Team Owner
Even that is a grey area... The process of hydro-cracking, thermal cracking, steam cracking, etc, are all synthetic processes. This part of the reason for the legal definition.
You can't really call a Group-III non-synthetic simply because it is a "highly refined" dino oil, because one could argue that Group IV PAO are technically also highly refined dino oil since PAO base stock is made from Xylene gas. Xylene gas starts life as dino oil. Xylene gas is obtained by steam cracking dino oil.
Group IV contains less unwanted contaminants than a Group-III, but the presence or absence of those contaminants does not determine if the end result is more "synthetic" or natural. Both are "synthetic", produced by different means to achieve different levels of purity.
Think of it this way... You can make hydrogen gas in different ways.. You can use H20, and do electrolysis, and get Oxygen and Hydrogen.
Or you can steam crack Natural Gas, and get Carbon Monoxide and Hydrogen.
But anyways.... Mobil-1 is not a bad oil. Personally, the reason I don't use Pennsoil, is because I refuse to buy their products knowing that they also own DuraLube (or was it Slick50, I forget which), which is the biggest snake-oil product which is actually detrimental for your car's engine, but that's a rant for another day.
You can't really call a Group-III non-synthetic simply because it is a "highly refined" dino oil, because one could argue that Group IV PAO are technically also highly refined dino oil since PAO base stock is made from Xylene gas. Xylene gas starts life as dino oil. Xylene gas is obtained by steam cracking dino oil.
Group IV contains less unwanted contaminants than a Group-III, but the presence or absence of those contaminants does not determine if the end result is more "synthetic" or natural. Both are "synthetic", produced by different means to achieve different levels of purity.
Think of it this way... You can make hydrogen gas in different ways.. You can use H20, and do electrolysis, and get Oxygen and Hydrogen.
Or you can steam crack Natural Gas, and get Carbon Monoxide and Hydrogen.
But anyways.... Mobil-1 is not a bad oil. Personally, the reason I don't use Pennsoil, is because I refuse to buy their products knowing that they also own DuraLube (or was it Slick50, I forget which), which is the biggest snake-oil product which is actually detrimental for your car's engine, but that's a rant for another day.
"Synthetic lubricants are chemically engineered from pure chemicals rather than refined from crude oil. That gives them significant advantages over refined oils.
Pure - The feedstocks from which synthetic lubricants are made do not contain sulfur, nitrogen or other elements that invite the formation of sludge and other products of lubricant breakdown. Synthetic lubricants can be used in higher temperatures than refined lubricants without breaking down. Their resistance to breakdown also allows them to be used longer than refined lubricants can be used. Lubricated systems stay cleaner and last longer with synthetic lubricants.
Synthetic lubricants differ from refined oil in three key ways: synthetics are pure, their molecular structure is uniform, and they may be designed to work in applications in which refined oils cannot."
If you really wanted to, I'm sure you could show how some group V comes from dino oil too or would that be plant/animal fats? Then again, V seems to be the catch-all for anything that doesn't fit into the first 4.
I thought PAOs are made from ethylene gas.
How about group VI PIOs
I wonder if there will ever be an application for them.Seriously though, I "think" the difference is the grp II and III feedstock is VGO and through the catalytic process (isomertation) comes the oil. While the PAOs are gas to liquid oils.
11-11-2008, 09:42 AM
#55
Senior Moderator
iTrader: (1)
you still dont have mobil 1 in your car or your dealer would have charged you for a synthetic oil change....i guarantee its the best oil they cary, or your dealer is an idiot....atleast that would move that title from you to your dealer anyways...
just kidding dude...its all good, i really dont give a shit anymore as i have reached the point of being hammered....
just kidding dude...its all good, i really dont give a shit anymore as i have reached the point of being hammered....
11-11-2008, 12:20 PM
#57
Team Owner
11-11-2008, 02:22 PM
#58
B16 Swapped TL
I say it's not a true Synthetic... but I don't care, I still use it, and its a great oil.
11-11-2008, 04:31 PM
#61
Team Owner
11-11-2008, 04:50 PM
#62
yes it does, just about the same price as all the other premium synthetic motor oils....castrol syntec, valvoline supersyn, penzoil platnum,mobil 1 and all the others, they are all expensive and they are all premium synthetic motor oils....
11-11-2008, 05:01 PM
#63
Team Owner
People who think the way you do are the reason they are able to charge premium synthetic prices for a good grp III oil.
11-11-2008, 10:17 PM
#64
B16 Swapped TL
11-12-2008, 06:54 AM
#65
Senior Moderator
iTrader: (1)
Let's agree to disagree and call it a day. Closed.
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