Never Summer

I agree with you 100%. It was just the one guy who was for some reason saying the Acura automatic was a decent transmission and compared it to a DSG that irked me.

leedogg

so, IN CONCLUSION. Based off general opinion here, we have a unanimous consensus that AT is the best overall transmission out there for everybody and everyone. Thats why there are more of them. kthx gbye

/STUPID THREAD

Legend2TL

SouthernBoy

You are correct, my friend told me that but he was quoting a Pontiac salesman from info he had from Holden. It's available in Australia but not the states for 2008.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/pontiac-g8.html

pkarandi

I may not have been clear with my "manuals becoming obsolete" comment. My brother was not saying that true manuals are becoming obsolete, but rather the stick-shift manuals are becoming obsolete, being replaced by the F1 paddle-shifting true manual transmissions (as opposed to the BS autoshifters). Like I said, first F1, then Ferrari's, now even the $35K Evo has them.

I mean, technically, if the true paddle-shift manuals are superior, we should all think they are great right? My problem is I feel like an old dog because I don't want to see the "stick-shift" go into the history books... replaced by faster-shifting clutchless manuals.

HiTEC

SouthernBoy,

I'm curious.... what makes you think Manassas, VA is the most wealthy and affluent area in the country? Maybe it is, I don't know anything about that area. It's just kind of a weird statement to make. In the entire country?

S PAW 1

^
You had to look pretty friggin' deep to get that interpretation. Why the personal attack?
Not that I'm speaking for Southernboy, but your post is uncalled for
He was voicing an opinion and an observation, which is what this forum is all about.

HiTEC

I'm just curious... I don't know anything about Virgina. It's just a pretty bold statement to make, not sure if he's bragging or not. I'm honestly curious. I would imagine there are areas in oh I don't know California, NY, or maybe Florida that would hold that title. If it's true then I guess I learned something today.

He said that word for word, so I'm just curious.

I do agree with him on that prices for manual could for sure fluctuate based on location. My dealer had one single manual car on the lot, and I've always had to factory order manual in my past several cars. So in my area they seem to not be very popular, and I've had a tough time selling mine in the past. It's crazy how many manual they are selling out by him. Sounds like my kind of area (being a manual guy).

SouthernBoy

I'm sorry I misled you with this.. and anyone else for that matter. I should have been more specific.

I live outside of Manassas.. about 5-6 miles in Western Prince William County. What I should have said, and what I meant, was the area, as in Northern Virginia, being the most affluent region in the country. Fairfax County tops the nation in this regard and when joined with Loudoun County, Prince William County, Arlington County, and the cities of Falls Church and Alexandria completes the picture.

Sorry for the confusion and thanks for the call on it.

SouthernBoy

That's Ok. Clearly I sent the wrong message because Manassas itself is definitely not in the top running. It has come up in the last 20 years tremendously, but it is not a candidate for top billing. Besides, I don't live there.

Also, I took no offense.. all is well, gentlemen.

HiTEC

I'm not familiar with the area, and was more curious than anything. There must be some super awesome homes out there. Thanks for the reply.

SouthernBoy

I should clarify that my statement was not a matter of opinion, but one of fact according to recent data. And this is not new. For some years now, Fairfax County has performed a balancing act between spots one, two, and three in the country and once again this past year, it came out number one. But there's more (as they say). Northern Virginia opens the gap a little more because of the additional counties and cities contained therein.

Virginia had 6 counties/cities in the top. No other state touched her. California had four. As a side note to this, Virginia also consistently ranks as the best managed state in the union with the best bond rating to boot.

I am not saying this because I am a native Virginian.. it's just a fact.

XxAfG786xX

I live in woodbridge, VA and yes it is a nice place but too many laws lol...i mean speeding and getting a $3000 ticket and jail time is a little too much dont you think southernboy?

SouthernBoy

Yes there are. When the home market was at it's peak several years back, the average home in the entire NOVA area was $560,000. Two years ago, Prince William County (my county) led the nation with a 28% job growth rate.

Of course, like the rest of the nation, things have slowed down quite a bit and home values have dropped off as well.

Gentlemen, please don't think that I am bragging in any of this. I just added it as an afterthought to my post about cars and toys. When people have more discretionary money to spend, they spend it on things they enjoy. Cars, boats, planes, trips.. you name it. Nothing at all wrong with any of that in my book.

Y'all enjoy your weekend.

SouthernBoy

Laws are the excrement of lawyers. Some don't smell so bad, while other stink to high heaven.

I thought the state legislature did away with those outlandishly high traffic fines. As for Woodbridge and our friends in other parts of the country... Woodbridge is on the eastern end of Prince William County, perhaps 30 miles from my area. It is more crowded and active. Plus it sits alongside of the Potomac River which is very nice when you're a boater.. which I was.

XxAfG786xX

yeah, route 1 and I 95 always have traffic

SouthernBoy

Somehow, I think that I came across as some pompous jerk in all of this stuff. Really, I didn't mean to send that message. I am a Southerner and I love the South dearly (and someday hope to get further down there - as in, say, South Carolina??), but I also respect and understand the feelings people have for other parts of our nation. There is a richness and wealth of all kinds, all over this land, that takes many forms and offers many pleasures and rewards.

After all, this is America.

Legend2TL

Nope, you were clear with your first statement. True manual transmissions will still be around for a long time. The SMG-type gearboxes are neat and not as novel as some car editors believe. It's just that SMG type gearboxes are evolving technology and there is a long adoption period for tech like that. The amount of improvements to the way they work in practical use (meaning real-world driving) has advanced ALOT.

The infrastructure and user base for manuals is very large worldwide, yes less than 5% of all US vehicles have manuals but it's still a reasonable large number. Coupled to that is that many of the foreign cars already have a manual for a given model used in other countries so the cost of bringing it to the states is not that much.

The editor of the L.A. Times drove around a 599 Ferrari with it's SMG gearbox. He inidcated although he loved the quick shifting, he could smell the burnt clutch when driving through the hilly parts of L.A., ths being a result of not having a slipage type torque converter of a a automatic so the clutch becomes the sacrificial wear component in hilly driving.

However one great advantage of these gearboxes is it's typically possible to update the S/W tha operates them, making improvements as newer releases become available. That is what has happened to some of the early M5 and M3 SMG.

So far, the Germans and Italians lead the way with the SMG tech. It looks like a couple Japanese cars are becoming available soon with it. SO far I've seen nothing on the production horizon for the Americans although I would be surprised if there was not a C6 Corvette mule test car driving Bowling Green with a prototype Borg/Warner or ZF SMG gearbox.

I'm like you and SouthernBoy being a old dog that still enjoys to drive with a true stick and clutch.

pkarandi

Thanks Legend. That's exactly the kind of discussion I was looking for. I don't really know that much about how the transmissions work - just know I like driving the manual tranny! So, your writeup was helpful... and makes me feel good about the 6MT's being around for a while!

Interesting how you mentioned the 'Vette. My brother who made the comment (manual tranny's becoming obsolete) has a 2005 Corvette (first year of the C6) with a 6MT. I was my bro's guest when he picked it up in Bowling Green, KY with the Museum Delivery program. AWESOME! We had a great weekend driving the car back home to Virginia.

pkarandi

Crap - screwed up the link. Retry...

S PAW 1

What is the value of having an MT in a state that bans radar detectors?

Just kidding of course.

I actually go through withdrawals when I have to pull by beloved V1 off the windshield
I know I could hide it, but 75% of my putting it there to begin with was to piss off the cops. It's my way of protesting "the system".

HiTec.. Sorry for being so sharp. Southernboy is sort of a god around here

S PAW 1

[QUOTE=
So far, the Germans and Italians lead the way with the SMG tech. It looks like a couple Japanese cars are becoming available soon with it. SO far I've seen nothing on the production horizon for the Americans although I would be surprised if there was not a C6 Corvette mule test car driving Bowling Green with a prototype Borg/Warner or ZF SMG gearbox.

The CVT from Nissan is also promising.

As I've said before, IMO, the MT's will soon be limited to the purist of heart. The TL/TL-S does not fall into that category. I would not be surprised to see no MT offerd in the 4G. The TL is more mainstream.

When discussing this with some of the instructors at MidOhio a few months ago, they agree...but they will always drive the purist machines.

Always had MT's myself whenever possible, but a bum knee makes me enjoy my paddles

Legend2TL

Very Nice

I'm a huge fan of the C5 and C6 Vette's!
One of the best performance and value cars out there.
American know-how at it's best!

dtech

I have an '07 TL-S auto and don't really regret it since I drive in L.A.'s crappy traffic...(I work in downtown L.A.). I'm sure manual is fun to drive and is quicker off the line, but I really like the paddle shifter and auto-shifting option. Let's just hope Acura adopts a twin-clutch tranny like the ones found on Audi's (S-Tronic formally known as 'DSG'). Currently, the Nissan Skyline GT-R has one, the new Evo has one, and the all new M3 has one. Based on my research, a twin-clutch tranny will outperform a manual tranny on the same vehicle by as much as .2secs! One thing people fail to realize is that the 0-60 timings provided by reputable car magz or whatever are done by prof. drivers, so in order to achieve that, you must know how to shift, and honestly...not many know how to...but with a dual-clutch tranny...no skills required, just smooth sailing from the start.

Legend2TL

Visiting Bowling Green is on my "bucket list" in life. Always wanted to visit there.

In terms of true manual gearboxes, I think you'll still see them on Honda/Acura sedans with 4 cylinders motors for at least a decade or maybe two from now. They will also be on BMW 3/5 series 4 and 6 cylinder sedans for awhile also (maybe not as long as the Hondas). They will also generally be available for the non-exotic sport cars (Corvette, 911, Miata, S2000,...) for some time to come. The exotic crowd (Ferrari, M-BMW ...) will probably continue their trend of moving toward the SMG. I thought ~60% of all Ferrari F430 have the SMG and the rest true manuals.

The friend who is a BMW service tech went to BMW school for learning how to maintain and repair the SMG gearboxes. He said they are essentially just manual gearboxes with alot of hydraulic actuators and electronics added one. So far he said the dealership he works at in Maryland have not had many of them in service so it's hard for him to say how the reliablity is compared to a true manual or automatic gearbox.

He has driven the current M5 and M6 as well as the previous M3 with SMG's and he still prefers the true manual. He said driving in slow and stop/go traffic is still not as smooth as a automatic. His car is a 2G 735i with a 5MT with ~250K miles. He does admit when under full thottle the SMG boxes shift extremely fast and do not miss shifts.

One of the more two interesting comebacks for true manuals in the US market was Mercedes bringing a 6MT for the current and previous C-class and SLK cars, and Cadillac offering a 6MT for the STS.

Legend2TL

When it comes to excellent writeups on MT use and operation as well as other car topics, SouthernBoy is the MAN!