Bense

I built probably 30 hybrid geared D-series Civic manual transmissions before I quit my full time IT job and went to school to pursue my bachelor's degree in mechanical engineering. Years later I reverse engineered the J-series transmission more so than anybody else in the entire world has, and I have built the first close-ratio J-series transmission, amongst other J-series transmissions. I've got about $6000 in brand new OEM J-series Honda parts sitting in my bedroom right now as we speak.

Yet for some reason you seem to think that I don't know what I'm talking about.

Kingcredible

↑Don't take this bait ↑ I repeat don't take the bait!!

Legend2TL

1) That's a big claim, more than likely automakers have already down a far superior effort at reverse engineering the J-series manual gearbox than you did. Including gear tooth mesh design/analysis, surface finishing, tolerances/stackup, component hardness, dynamic/static friction analysis, and most important estimated cost analysis for manufacturing.

2) If you really wanna learn about gearbox engineering, I suggest the RIT Mechanical Engineering School's Gear Research Laboratory. I met a few students there (my youngest daughter went to RIT and graduated with a S/W engineering degree) and one of the woman mechanical engineers even engineered the transaxle including manufacturing the gearsets (they have gear cutting tooling) and machining the billet aluminum gearcase.

https://www.rit.edu/kgcoe/grc/node/89
https://www.rit.edu/kgcoe/grc/analyses

Here's some pics of the Baja racer and gearbox, and trophy (best suspension design).



Baja design from another year, but also had entire gearbox engineered and manufactured at RIT

3) Department of Mechanical Engineering Northern Arizona University Baja gearbox desdign paper
https://ceias.nau.edu/capstone/proje...t_proposal.pdf


I couldn't resist the troll



oh and for the 3G TL 6MT, GM AC/Delco 10-4014 Semi-Synthetic Friction Modified Synchromesh Manual Transmission Fluid works great.
The chemist and fluid engineers there know their stuff, and the results are in the shifting.

Legend2TL

and last

4) Here's a e-book on manual gearbox design published by SAE. Chapter 3 is entirely devoted to lubrication. Pretty old 1992, but covers most of the fundamentals of MT.
http://ceb.ac.in/knowledge-center/E-...c%20Stokes.pdf

Bense

FormulaSAE / Formula Baja?
That's cool. Here's where I was teaching the kids in the FormulaSAE building at Clemson how to TIG weld in 2012, which is something I did for a few years before going back to school to pursue mechanical engineering.


You have nothing valuable to say or contribute here. And just like Kingcredible said...

Legend2TL

Meh, my value in this thread is to call people like you out with ridiculous statements like

Which is extremely unlikely.

The best part of meeting the woman mechanical engineer who designed and produced that Formula SAE Baja racer gearbox?
She acted nothing like you boosting how great and smart she was, she was very down to earth and modest which IMO is one of the important attributes of a great engineer.

Bense

But... you have not called me out on anything. How do you know if my statement is ridiculous or not? Do you know what all I have done with these transmissions?

I do not care about your wife, formula SAE, your daughters, their degrees, or your opinion of what you think my attitude and demeanor should be. I already addressed the premise of this earlier in this thread.

I'm not a Buddhist monk. I don't care about modesty or making sure that I'm not bragging too much. I'm not trying to get you (or anyone else for that matter) to propose to me.

I am an angry, arrogant, cocky, boastful engineer with the type of attitude that one would expect a guy to have when he spends tons of time working on transmissions and/or his computer by himself. I know more about these transmissions than you do, and I eat pieces of shit like you for breakfast.

Bense

Legend2TL, Maybe you should share this song to one of the modest, positive attitude having, accomplished women engineers in your family and it will inspire them to do something a little more gangster; like reverse engineering J series transmissions more than anyone else in the world, because that's the type of effect it had on me. If it seems "highly unlikely" then perhaps you should spend less time posting the 70k posts that you have on here, and spend more time pirating / paying dudes in eastern europe for internal Honda literature.https://honda-tech.com/forums/transm...eries-3346496/

Legend2TL

I called you out on this statement from you



That's mostly what you do especially the breakfast part since all you do is talk , however in the real world results are what matter.
You've taken apart and modified some MT that some most probably more intelligent Honda engineers devoted their careers to, yet you foolishly claim to know more about Honda gearboxes than the people who created them. That makes you the fool.
Keep on believing that motor oil is the best overall lubricant for Honda MT, and keep on believing you're special. To yourself that is.

Oh, not quite Mike Hewland or Pete Weissman but Dai Arai (Honda DCT Chief Engineer) not only knows what he's talking about. He and his engineers created the first DCT for Honda motorcycles.
https://www.totalmotorcycle.com/insp...-transmission/




Do share two commonalities with Mr. Arai, would also love to ride a RC211V and Cinema Paradiso is also one of my fav films.

Bense

Already seen it. Don't care.

What does DCT, your daughters, their RIT degrees, your wife, her attitude, Formula SAE, DC12V, your doubts, your skepticisms, your posts in this thread have in common?!

None of them are relevant and none of them have anything to do with J-series manual transmissions and their transmission fluid.

I'm not wasting any more of my overabundance of free time responding to you.

Legend2TL

Good, stay out of this MTF thread then.
Better for the rest of us, who would rather expand our knowledge about others GM's SS/FM MTF experience in their 3G TL 6MT.

Aman

Someone get this clown out of here.

Kingcredible

You can report him. Warning sign to Left of the thumbs up button. We are here to learn/ share passion for our cars. Not read mindless deluded rants of an ME dropout.
Legend2TL, congrats to you and your daughter. If she has any remote interest, the hybrid/plugin fields are begging for s/w engineers. I currently work for a 2nd tier auto supplier as a design engineer developing embedded controllers and communication protocols for electrified power trains.
Software engineers are especially sought after, and being a minority is a double plus!

Bense

You mean the one that's talking about his wife's personality, his daughters education and all this other stuff that is not directly, indirectly, or remotely related? Dude is just mad / jealous / hating and he feels that his precious little knowledge is being invalidated.

10w30 works fine and just like I've said before -- the reason that the "synchromesh" stuff works better than the Honda MTF is because it is thicker. It is more viscous. I began compiling information and taking photos that show how Honda changed/evolved the teeth profile on their gears. Thicker tooth gears like the early 90s Hondas had were stronger, but they used a more viscous fluid. Honda wanted to make the vehicles get better gas mileage, so they started changing the gear design. Higher tooth counts / lower helix angle, and thus, lighter fluid. I have a more thorough write-up about all this planned in the future. But I've got some other stuff going on that I've been busy with.

Bense

They're not mindless deluded rants. There's actually a reason behind it, You guys just don't know me yet and you aren't used to this level of hardcore. You got guys coming in here to "call me out" / "put me in my place" while talking all this crap about his daughter, wife's attitude and all this other crap that doesn't have shit to do with anything. I run into this stuff a lot. Like "wow, omg, this guy is arrogant!" -- Okay, so what? Are y'all trying to date me? Or are y'all trying to work on a project with me?

Here are some of my threads from another Internet Brand's owned Honda forum:
2020 -- https://honda-tech.com/forums/transm...ype-r-3346496/
2020 -- https://honda-tech.com/forums/transm...-sbxm-3345057/
2020 -- https://honda-tech.com/forums/suspen...chart-3346540/

2007 -- https://honda-tech.com/forums/hybrid...b-faq-1998426/
2007 -- https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-...ype-s-1960750/

Legend2TL

+1

Thx, reported the post and will see what the mod's do about it. Not worth my time/energy to confront that sort of behavior.

Thx on my daughter, she's working for a small S/W company that's a subsidiary of Quest that provide analytical and database S/W for drug manufacturers to track drug trial results.
Some of their S/W currently being used by some of the COVID19 vaccine trials ongoing today so we're pretty proud of her.

I'm a EE but do S/W and cyber currently. Former colleague wrote C/C++ for the various powertrain control systems on the 1G Chevy Volt. Said it was an awesome experience but also frustrating to see firsthand so much infighting at GM.
Bob Lutz (former GM exec) used to come to their weekly status meetings, he said Lutz was fairly nice to the engineers not so nice to the Volt project/program management.

Yes these are great times to be in S/W!

What's the best price folks are finding these days for AC/Delco 10-4014 88900399 MTF fluid?
CARiD has it for $9.65, two quarts delivered to home was ~$16. Local GM dealers wanted $22 which is retail I'm guessing
My 2005 TL 6MT has ~60k miles on the GM MTF which is starting to shift slightly hard now so suspect the fluid has sheared down some.

Legend2TL

^ $16/quart delivered

Kingcredible

Sounds like the prices I'm seeing. GM dealer has Synchromesh for $21, but they have to order it because no one drives manual transmissions anymore. I would avoid buying from eBay at all costs, last time I ordered I got a counterfeit AC Delco drivebelt. It said "DC Delco" 🤣🤣😆 these knockoff manufacturers weren't even trying

Legend2TL

Little off topic, but what are the typical protocols are you using? CAN?
Former college roommate/friend works for MicroChip and he's been telling me of some newer protocols in the infotainment and vehicle management bus architectures.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

Guys- let's keep this thread on track and keep the personal insults out of it. Thanks.

DMZ

Chevy dealers are the ones most likely to stock the AC Delco fluid

subinf

^ -

I did find it for a good price on Amazon earlier this year (January of February).

Bense

None of that has anything to do with transmission fluid. Its $2/quart for 10w30 at walmart.

Oh and by the way, did I tell you that I've reverse engineered these transmissions more than anyone else? Because I have.

Jackass

Dear god man...your arm must really hurt from all of the patting yourself on the back. Just let it go. People disagree...if it isn't oil, it is trans fluid, or octane arguments. You stated our view, some agreed, some didn't. There is nothing left to prove here.

NBP04TL4ME

Amen...........

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Maybe he's related to Sydney Powell.

Kingcredible

@Legend2TL mostly CANbus, though I should say I'm an ME providing support to the EEs who are doing the real work. I just do the heat load analysis and prototype the respective cooling solutions.
Amsoil also has a Synchromesh MTF that's even more $$. Just in case someone is apprehensive about GM's product

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

I cannot imagine anybody opting for Scamzoil MTF over ACDelco Synchromesh; one had a huge track record in our transmissions, one does not.

12volt

$13.10 quart plus ship

hondeducation

+1 for gm synchromesh! never has failed me in the last 10 years on the 3G TLs i've owned

Legend2TL

Pretty amazing the application base for CAN, that and I2C have gotten into so many things. Is the heat load for the motor and brake resistors?

Just drained and refilled GM Synchromesh last weekend, had ~70k miles and a decade on it as well. In that time it performed very well, the new fluid seems to shift a little smoother than the old.
Kinda wondered if the helical gear limited slip differential in the 6MT causes the MTF to shear down more over time compared to a open diff.

FWIW, got two quarts of the GM MTF from CarID for ~$32 including shipping. Local GM Dealers wanted $22/quart.

DMZ

There's more fake / knockoff stuff for sale on ebaY than you have any idea. Be careful when buying!
.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

I have purchased the ACDelco Synchromesh Friction Modified (Part number 10-4014) from Summit Racing in the past; they currently have it for sale for $18.99 per quart.

• https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ado-10-4014

I just found it on RockAuto for $11.65; quite the bargain:

• https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...490624&jsn=715

Bense

I'm going to be taking apart my transmission within the next month. I can't wait to show how immaculate it is, despite the fact that I use $2.50/quart Walmart motor oil in it

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Who cares?

Mark in Baltimore

Back on topic.

I only have about 20,000 miles on my AC Delco gearbox fluid, so I can't really speak about long-term effects of this unapproved change in lubrication, but I had the classic third-gear-popping-out issues and took a chance when I bought the car that it would be an effective fix. I'm amazed that the prior owner (family guy who is not a car enthusiast) actually put up with it. WTH. Such a simple fix. No way was I spending, what, $2,500 for someone to rebuild the gearbox when this seems to be a tried-and-true approach.

The gearbox is a joy to use year-round and is one of the better gearboxes I've stirred, and, for a four door sedan where having a clutch is an anomaly, I couldn't ask for a better shifting experience. In colder, sub twenty degree weather, the synchros need just a bit of warming up or they will occasionally be a tad crunchy, but it's no big deal and feels similarly to my current and past three-pedal cars. Just need to use some common sense mechanical kindness, and all will be fine.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

My thoughts and experience exactly.

Struc

Until you factor in shipping.... then it's almost exactly the same as Amazon at $18.24/qt.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Fair enough; last time I bought from a source other than Amazon I purchased nine quarts which spread the shipping charges out considerably and made it significantly less expensive than Amazon.

Bense

If the synchro teeth on the gear and/or sleeve are worn enough to where its popping out, no fluid is going to remedy it.

Its around $315 for the parts, brand new from Honda / Acura. In fact, I know of unlisted part numbers that make it cost even less. But you know, I wouldn't want to get off topic.