Just Bought a S60R Over a TL - Long Post
11-01-2005, 07:18 AM
#81
I think honda/acura is much more reliable than 90% of the cars on the road,
and what people mostly have problems with are minor and dont leave you on the side of the road waiting for a tow.
I like volvo's, we looked at the S80, but I found the ride harsh and noisy,
very noisy, and no way I am getting another turbo car.
They are very annoying, you get turbo lag, especialy on a hot day
with the AC on, some turbo cars are real dogs till the turbo spools up,
which it dont under some conditions....
Take off from a stop on a hot day going up hill a bit, and on some
cars you feel like getting out and pushing the thing to get it going.
Then there are turbo hot spots, making frequent oil changes a must, and/or
synthetic oil required, and most turbos do not make it to 100,000 miles
without the bearings going.
No thanks, I will pass on the turbo.
Brett
and what people mostly have problems with are minor and dont leave you on the side of the road waiting for a tow.
I like volvo's, we looked at the S80, but I found the ride harsh and noisy,
very noisy, and no way I am getting another turbo car.
They are very annoying, you get turbo lag, especialy on a hot day
with the AC on, some turbo cars are real dogs till the turbo spools up,
which it dont under some conditions....
Take off from a stop on a hot day going up hill a bit, and on some
cars you feel like getting out and pushing the thing to get it going.
Then there are turbo hot spots, making frequent oil changes a must, and/or
synthetic oil required, and most turbos do not make it to 100,000 miles
without the bearings going.
No thanks, I will pass on the turbo.
Brett
11-01-2005, 10:54 AM
#82
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Originally Posted by mickey3c
super reliability ???? Not sure what you used to drive but honda hasn't exactly had super reliability...
Regarding turbo charged cars, I have two Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4s that I love and they have been very reliable. One of them is a 1992 with over 170,000 miles on the clock. It is true, you do have to wait for the turbo to spool but when it does, what a rush! I have driven faster cars but find the turbo rush is just not there and consequently they feel slow by comparison. I know most people will base there decisions on published 0-60 times but I have found that I prefer the cars that 'feel' faster. I get much more pleasure out of them everytime I step on the accelerator.
Other cars I looked at and considered before I bought my TL were the Volvo S80 ( I loved this car but the navigation is so outdated), the Jaguar S-Type R (Another suprising car with a Supercharged V-8 that was very impressive from a seat of the pants perspective and the Cadillac CTS-V (Another powerhouse with a Corvette engine) but in the end I decided I already have the two Mitsis and I was shopping for a practical car so I chose the car with better reliability and resale value. I don't see the TL as a car I am going to keep forever. Two to Three years from now I want it to keep its value so I can trade up to something else.
11-01-2005, 05:10 PM
#83
Drifting
Originally Posted by Neumahn
The threads are left on the site because they are relevant. Other potential TL buyers are reading this site all the time. Just because the original post is old does not mean that it is of no use to anyone.
If we weren't supposed to post here the moderator could have closed the thread.
If we weren't supposed to post here the moderator could have closed the thread.
. But, responding unnecessarily to the original thread starter's post, epecially since your concerns had already been addressed, IS irrelevant.
11-01-2005, 06:23 PM
#87
Originally Posted by Neumahn
I am not sure who you were quoting, if it was me I was mis-quoted. I said "superior reliability" and that was with respect to that of the Volvo.
Regarding turbo charged cars, I have two Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4s that I love and they have been very reliable. One of them is a 1992 with over 170,000 miles on the clock. It is true, you do have to wait for the turbo to spool but when it does, what a rush! I have driven faster cars but find the turbo rush is just not there and consequently they feel slow by comparison. I know most people will base there decisions on published 0-60 times but I have found that I prefer the cars that 'feel' faster. I get much more pleasure out of them everytime I step on the accelerator.
Other cars I looked at and considered before I bought my TL were the Volvo S80 ( I loved this car but the navigation is so outdated), the Jaguar S-Type R (Another suprising car with a Supercharged V-8 that was very impressive from a seat of the pants perspective and the Cadillac CTS-V (Another powerhouse with a Corvette engine) but in the end I decided I already have the two Mitsis and I was shopping for a practical car so I chose the car with better reliability and resale value. I don't see the TL as a car I am going to keep forever. Two to Three years from now I want it to keep its value so I can trade up to something else.
Regarding turbo charged cars, I have two Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4s that I love and they have been very reliable. One of them is a 1992 with over 170,000 miles on the clock. It is true, you do have to wait for the turbo to spool but when it does, what a rush! I have driven faster cars but find the turbo rush is just not there and consequently they feel slow by comparison. I know most people will base there decisions on published 0-60 times but I have found that I prefer the cars that 'feel' faster. I get much more pleasure out of them everytime I step on the accelerator.
Other cars I looked at and considered before I bought my TL were the Volvo S80 ( I loved this car but the navigation is so outdated), the Jaguar S-Type R (Another suprising car with a Supercharged V-8 that was very impressive from a seat of the pants perspective and the Cadillac CTS-V (Another powerhouse with a Corvette engine) but in the end I decided I already have the two Mitsis and I was shopping for a practical car so I chose the car with better reliability and resale value. I don't see the TL as a car I am going to keep forever. Two to Three years from now I want it to keep its value so I can trade up to something else.
Your list of cars is close to ours over the last few years, S80
(trouble prone, noisy, goofy 5 cylinder engine, nice style inside and out though)
The Jaguar S type, we thought about the 3.0 manual trans model,
the type R has what, 290 hp? thats a fast car!
My wife likes the cts, its growing on me, but I hear they and any cadillac
have problems, maybe even more than the the TL!
I like some years of the BMW 530, love the inline 6 cylinder, and
I did like the Passat, but it was always broke.
The TL was the nicest larger reliable car we could find with a manual
transmission.
Brett
11-01-2005, 09:10 PM
#88
Pro
I like the TL more than the S60R because one is a volvo and one is a honda. That makes me feel shallow and stupid. I dont think the S60R was out when I got my TL Type-S, but I still think my TL type-s is a beast. Bring on the pain!
11-02-2005, 01:18 AM
#89
Drifting
Originally Posted by Neumahn
Thank you for deciding for everyone what is irrelevant. Would you like to come over my house, I have some mail for you to sort for me.
11-02-2005, 07:14 AM
#90
I owned a 2004 S60R and had some serious issues with it. I went through the lemon law process and got my money back!! The adjustable chassis 4C garbage just dooms the car. It hops and makes wierd noises when going over any irregularities. But on glass like roads, the car is really fast and is sharp all around. The sound system is FAR superior to the Volvo's successor, my 2005 TL. The seats in the Volvo are also soo much better, in a league of their own!!! The leather is so soft and exotic, with a dark blue look called Nordkap. The AWD is sweet too.
I love my 05 TL, but its not even in the same class performance wise!!
I love my 05 TL, but its not even in the same class performance wise!!
11-02-2005, 07:30 AM
#91
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I'm not really a fan of Volvos. But I will give them credit for building a more solid car.
I recently had an S40 for a 1 day rental, courtesy of Acura of Manhattan when they ran out of loaners. Compared to my TL, that car had a much greater feeling of SOLID. Not one rattle, creak, and above all, not the slightest peep of plastic parts rubbing together ANYWHERE, even on potthole ridden NYC streets.
I recently had an S40 for a 1 day rental, courtesy of Acura of Manhattan when they ran out of loaners. Compared to my TL, that car had a much greater feeling of SOLID. Not one rattle, creak, and above all, not the slightest peep of plastic parts rubbing together ANYWHERE, even on potthole ridden NYC streets.
11-02-2005, 11:57 AM
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11-02-2005, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by giant_tcr
"But we're picking one anyway, and it's the Acura. While we're not thrilled when the steering wheel tries to jerk out of our hands powering out of tight, bumpy corners, we'll deal with that to get its smoother, more lusty engine, better gearbox and more responsive handling. That it costs less and looks better makes it that much more appealing."
after driven both cars, that's well said. can we close this one now?
11-02-2005, 02:27 PM
#94
Originally Posted by neuronbob
Congrats on your S60R, I think it's a hot car. I disgree with the poster who said that most posters here can't afford it--I an, but am a Honda fanatic so never really consifered buying it.
11-18-2006, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by kng
first of all, i have to say that i started my new car search wanting a '04 tl 6MT/navi. i have been reading this forum for over two months in anticipation on my car. i actually still have deposits (which i must now recover) at 2 dealers for an anthracite. this process of waiting - acura's first downfall - gave me time and reason to consider my options. so last night after work, i decided to head to the local volvo dealer just to inquire about the s60r. i have been interested in this car since last summer when my wife and i were deciding between the v70r and the porsche cayenne s(we ended up with a cayenne).
so armed with my previous knowledge of the car and the tl, i cut to the chase and told him my exact predicament about waiting for the tl and liking the s60r but thinking it was too expensive - unless he made me a deal. the deal i got was $40k for a $42k s60r which they normally don't discount. after playing with the financing options including trading my '00 audi s4, i realized that my real cost was essentially the same as the tl (because i stretched the payments over 84 months for the lowest monthly rate whereas previously i was looking at financing the tl for 60 months so the payments looked the same to me; either car i would have probably paid it off in a couple years anyways - my goal was a monthly payment of less than $400). once the cost issue was taken care, it was car vs. car which i assessed like this:
1. engine - volvo (i came from an s4 and this to me is even faster)
2. handling - volvo (all wheel drive with the adjustable active suspension is sweet)
3. exterior - volvo (only because the s60r is more rare and the 18" rims with brembo calipers front/back look awesome)
4. interior - acura (because of all the bells and whistles)
5. room - tie (surprisingly per edmunds the tl has only 1" more rear legroom; going against the tl, it's rear seats don't fold flat which is ridiculous to me)
6. fuel economy - acura (but this is close too, per edmunds the tl is 19/28 and the s60r 18/25 but the stickers on the tl say 20/30? which is it?)
7. cost of ownership - acura (this is a no brainer because a tl is a honda - so to protect myself i bought the extended warranty to 7 years/100k; i also found out last night that volvo's pay for ALL maintenance to 30k for free including oil changes which is nice)
8. safety - volvo (this is in no way saying the acura is unsafe by any means but this is a volvo with all wheel drive and i have a baby coming)
in the end, it came down to the fact that with the tl i wanted -6MT/navi plus all the options like backup sensor, deck spoiler, protection package, and extended warranty - i was looking at almost $38k. ultimately i paid a bit more for a real "driver's car" that's european versus a more practical car that had all the toys, which trust me guys, i really wanted especially the nav and the xm (now i have to get an aftermarket unit with fm modulator). in the end i made the call and chose the s60r. i really do love the new tl - in fact when i was negotiating with the sales manager and was reciting all the facts he admitted that the tl was a great car and that a lot of people were comparing the two cars like i was and that acura definitely wins on the electronics side hands down).
but i have to say what really prevented acura from selling me a car was the sales process. as i mentioned before i have put down 3 deposits, waited over 2 months, been treated horribly throughout, and was left holding onto a shaky promise that my car would be here by mid March which i was not 100% confident about. if all this was done differently or better i would be in a tl by now. oh well - things happen for a reason... and now i have all wheel drive back!
so armed with my previous knowledge of the car and the tl, i cut to the chase and told him my exact predicament about waiting for the tl and liking the s60r but thinking it was too expensive - unless he made me a deal. the deal i got was $40k for a $42k s60r which they normally don't discount. after playing with the financing options including trading my '00 audi s4, i realized that my real cost was essentially the same as the tl (because i stretched the payments over 84 months for the lowest monthly rate whereas previously i was looking at financing the tl for 60 months so the payments looked the same to me; either car i would have probably paid it off in a couple years anyways - my goal was a monthly payment of less than $400). once the cost issue was taken care, it was car vs. car which i assessed like this:
1. engine - volvo (i came from an s4 and this to me is even faster)
2. handling - volvo (all wheel drive with the adjustable active suspension is sweet)
3. exterior - volvo (only because the s60r is more rare and the 18" rims with brembo calipers front/back look awesome)
4. interior - acura (because of all the bells and whistles)
5. room - tie (surprisingly per edmunds the tl has only 1" more rear legroom; going against the tl, it's rear seats don't fold flat which is ridiculous to me)
6. fuel economy - acura (but this is close too, per edmunds the tl is 19/28 and the s60r 18/25 but the stickers on the tl say 20/30? which is it?)
7. cost of ownership - acura (this is a no brainer because a tl is a honda - so to protect myself i bought the extended warranty to 7 years/100k; i also found out last night that volvo's pay for ALL maintenance to 30k for free including oil changes which is nice)
8. safety - volvo (this is in no way saying the acura is unsafe by any means but this is a volvo with all wheel drive and i have a baby coming)
in the end, it came down to the fact that with the tl i wanted -6MT/navi plus all the options like backup sensor, deck spoiler, protection package, and extended warranty - i was looking at almost $38k. ultimately i paid a bit more for a real "driver's car" that's european versus a more practical car that had all the toys, which trust me guys, i really wanted especially the nav and the xm (now i have to get an aftermarket unit with fm modulator). in the end i made the call and chose the s60r. i really do love the new tl - in fact when i was negotiating with the sales manager and was reciting all the facts he admitted that the tl was a great car and that a lot of people were comparing the two cars like i was and that acura definitely wins on the electronics side hands down).
but i have to say what really prevented acura from selling me a car was the sales process. as i mentioned before i have put down 3 deposits, waited over 2 months, been treated horribly throughout, and was left holding onto a shaky promise that my car would be here by mid March which i was not 100% confident about. if all this was done differently or better i would be in a tl by now. oh well - things happen for a reason... and now i have all wheel drive back!
But this does you little good since you've already bought the car. Advice: Lots of maintenanance, keep the engine compartment clean, jump on small problems before they grow big, and be aggressive about using that extended warranty.
I went with an '07 TL S because I have no patience for a car with shoddy quality. Volvo had their one chance to make it good with me and they blew it.
Good luck.
11-18-2006, 05:53 PM
#96
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Originally Posted by violarx
My own experience with an older 245 and my colleague's exerperience with his '01 S60 Turbo lead me to believe that Volvo has fallen off the quality wagon and landed deeply. The final straw for the S60 was that it was towed 5 times in 2 weeks for fatal electrical problems and that the dealer was virtually helpless. That car is history and a BMW 530 has replaced it.
But this does you little good since you've already bought the car. Advice: Lots of maintenanance, keep the engine compartment clean, jump on small problems before they grow big, and be aggressive about using that extended warranty.
I went with an '07 TL S because I have no patience for a car with shoddy quality. Volvo had their one chance to make it good with me and they blew it.
Good luck.
But this does you little good since you've already bought the car. Advice: Lots of maintenanance, keep the engine compartment clean, jump on small problems before they grow big, and be aggressive about using that extended warranty.
I went with an '07 TL S because I have no patience for a car with shoddy quality. Volvo had their one chance to make it good with me and they blew it.
Good luck.
11-18-2006, 06:18 PM
#97
We have a 04 Volvo S80 with twin turbos. The power and handling is excellent, but the reliability is THE worst you can imagine. I have tried several Volvo dealers around the area to get few bugs fix. You will be surprised how seriously the Volvo techs lack the knowledge on their vehicles. It's good that you got the ext warranty. Volvos are EXPENSIVE to fix, and they do break often.
I made the wrong decision 2 years ago buying the Volvo
. Learned my lesson. Just got myself a TL. I know this TL is reliable and will only visit the dealer for maintaince 
I made the wrong decision 2 years ago buying the Volvo
. Learned my lesson. Just got myself a TL. I know this TL is reliable and will only visit the dealer for maintaince
11-18-2006, 08:46 PM
#98
I find it hard to believe that the Volvo feels faster then the S4. I've never been a fan of Volvos, mainly due to styling. Also, I know a few people who've had nothing but grief from the Volvo. Good luck to you, hope she treats you better.
P.S. people don't rag on him for HIS choice.
P.S. people don't rag on him for HIS choice.
11-18-2006, 09:46 PM
#100
This thread is almost three years old and by the standards we use now, it should be in Car Talk. Since we can't move it between other forums it is now closed.
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