Just Bought a S60R Over a TL - Long Post
02-23-2004, 12:13 PM
#41
Re: An S60R versus WRX STi?????
Originally posted by VQ35DE
Puhleeaase!!! I personally think the S60 (in general) is overpriced and will depreciate terribly BUT, the S60R is alot more car than the STi.
Now if you're comparing the S60R with the Legacy Turbo (B4) coming out this year, then that makes for a logical comparison.
Puhleeaase!!! I personally think the S60 (in general) is overpriced and will depreciate terribly BUT, the S60R is alot more car than the STi.
Now if you're comparing the S60R with the Legacy Turbo (B4) coming out this year, then that makes for a logical comparison.
02-23-2004, 01:25 PM
#42
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I have a V70R and the only other car I looked at was the S4 Avant. The new Legacy didn't/doesn't interest me at all. I'm sure it's a good car, and will sell well, but it is what it is. I just traded a TL-S and MDX for a Volvo and BMW. While both were good cars, I think I'll stick with the Europeans for a while. And before I get flamed, I've had the Volvo for eight months and it's been perfect which, unfortunately, I couldn't say about either Acura product during their first eight months of ownership.
02-23-2004, 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by Skeedatl
I think it's simply the best sportwagon out.
I think it's simply the best sportwagon out.
02-23-2004, 02:47 PM
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I can vouch for BarryH. He also hangs out at the Sweedspeed site which is a very nice resource.
Before going with the TL, I was interested in a new S60R to replace my 850R wagon.
I passed on the car as I did not like the steering and the shifter.
The seats are the best but the dash was not up to older Volvo standards in term of materials.
The Bi-xenon lights did not live up to expectations either.
My previous Volvo had gotten too popular in the repair shop. My guess is that the complicated suspensions in the new cars are likely to require attention.
Before going with the TL, I was interested in a new S60R to replace my 850R wagon.
I passed on the car as I did not like the steering and the shifter.
The seats are the best but the dash was not up to older Volvo standards in term of materials.
The Bi-xenon lights did not live up to expectations either.
My previous Volvo had gotten too popular in the repair shop. My guess is that the complicated suspensions in the new cars are likely to require attention.
02-23-2004, 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by clutchcargo
I can vouch for BarryH. He also hangs out at the Sweedspeed site which is a very nice resource.
I can vouch for BarryH. He also hangs out at the Sweedspeed site which is a very nice resource.
02-23-2004, 03:27 PM
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Hi Barry,
I was even more interested in the CTS-V but I could not put my 16 year old behind the wheel of one of those.
The local dealers are starting to get a few of these cars in and I am planning to take a test drive Wednesday.
I was even more interested in the CTS-V but I could not put my 16 year old behind the wheel of one of those.
The local dealers are starting to get a few of these cars in and I am planning to take a test drive Wednesday.
02-23-2004, 05:12 PM
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Originally posted by vtechbrain
Hope you enjoy it. But sincerily I doubt it. Volvos have miserable reliability, depreciation and quality. To make matters worse their legendary safety is now a days second best to honda and other auto makers Just check the IIHS website for the company with most highly ranked vehicles. I doubt youll ever show your tail lights to a TL since the extra HP is sucked up by the Haldex system. All in all a poor choice regardless of price.
Hope you enjoy it. But sincerily I doubt it. Volvos have miserable reliability, depreciation and quality. To make matters worse their legendary safety is now a days second best to honda and other auto makers Just check the IIHS website for the company with most highly ranked vehicles. I doubt youll ever show your tail lights to a TL since the extra HP is sucked up by the Haldex system. All in all a poor choice regardless of price.
02-23-2004, 05:21 PM
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That car is so dorky looking. It sits way too high, huge gaps around the 18" wheels and the body. Plus, it is a volvo. lame
I think the S60R is incredible and we are comparing 2 diff cars here. The TL is perfect for most people, the S60R is a M3/S4 competitor. Reliability, about even considering all the TL issue threads.
BTW, the Cayenne is selling very well for Porsche. It is holding them down, as 911 and Boxster sales have slipped much. Considering they are selling a Tourag which can be 40k for 90-100k for a Turbo, imagine the profit they are making. With a lot of magazine articles, you got to watch who is writing them and where they are getting their sources from.
I would have gotten the new M-B C55 or Cadillac CTS-V.
02-23-2004, 07:41 PM
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I love the S60R. I may have concerns about reliability as well, but I still tested and compared it before I bought the Tl. I don't think they look dorky at all. It's all subjective, but I love the styling.
02-23-2004, 08:24 PM
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The Volvo has no phone integration...a big thing for me. Also, the I think the ride and basic handling setup is more fluid, more sophisticated in the TL. I'm coming from a 530i and the Volvo felt crude, the TL didn't.
02-23-2004, 09:02 PM
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Re: too much credit
Originally posted by kng
i guess i gave this forum too much credit... i did not post to turn this into a pissing contest, but if i'm gonna get flamed for being objective, i feel the need to defend myself from the less intelligent posters here. where should i begin:
1) everyone keeps talking about reliability, which i admitted was a general concern of mine. but someone emailed me the following which paints both cars evry similarly:
Edmunds.com keeps detailed 5-year projections for ownership cost for all models and breaks it down by depreciation, financing, insurance, fuel, maintenance, taxes, etc. They show the R with a 5 year depreciation rate 2% higher than the TL (I don't know where they got this number but the ALG book has good residual numbers for the R.) Edmunds shows the combined 5-year cost of ownership for other categories as $25,737 for the TL and $26,820 for the R. In other words, about $200/year difference which isn't bad considering they show the R as ~10% more expensive to buy.
2) everyone keeps bringing up my 7 year financing - did no one read my followup post explaining why??? bottom line - i will PAY OFF the car in 2-3 years. the smarter people here would recognize that having more money in hand month to month is better than having higher payments IF you use that money wisely in the interim, like invest it which i am doing.
3) everyone keeps bringing up quality of build which i do not see as a problem. my car looks and seems beautiful from what i see right now. i do not know for sure but i suspect the volvo r models might be hand or specially finished since they only make 5000 a year. i do not know about regular s60s. i am happy my car was built in belgium not ohio. based on this forum, the tl has issues of its own relative to rattles, squeaks, etc.
4) everyone keeps ragging on my cayenne as a poor car. have any of you ridden or driven one? anyone who has would disagree with you. it handles phenomenally, has great power, and is imminently capable off road. all the reviews say it's a great car but question its value. to say it's a bad car is totally incorrect - it's fantastic - to say there are better values out there sure. but then why don't you all buy accords versus tl's then??? if you can afford one, you would like it.
5) lastly, i think stevie mentioned that my s60r couldn't blow the doors off a tl - buddy, what are you smoking? you'll see my tail lights by the time you can figure out how to launch your car assuming you have a 6MT (ok mabe some exaggeration here...)
again, i respect and like the tl and i could easily be driving one now if not the mishaps. i think most people who have read my post respect my decision and car. but i had to reply to the rest of you.....
i guess i gave this forum too much credit... i did not post to turn this into a pissing contest, but if i'm gonna get flamed for being objective, i feel the need to defend myself from the less intelligent posters here. where should i begin:
1) everyone keeps talking about reliability, which i admitted was a general concern of mine. but someone emailed me the following which paints both cars evry similarly:
Edmunds.com keeps detailed 5-year projections for ownership cost for all models and breaks it down by depreciation, financing, insurance, fuel, maintenance, taxes, etc. They show the R with a 5 year depreciation rate 2% higher than the TL (I don't know where they got this number but the ALG book has good residual numbers for the R.) Edmunds shows the combined 5-year cost of ownership for other categories as $25,737 for the TL and $26,820 for the R. In other words, about $200/year difference which isn't bad considering they show the R as ~10% more expensive to buy.
2) everyone keeps bringing up my 7 year financing - did no one read my followup post explaining why??? bottom line - i will PAY OFF the car in 2-3 years. the smarter people here would recognize that having more money in hand month to month is better than having higher payments IF you use that money wisely in the interim, like invest it which i am doing.
3) everyone keeps bringing up quality of build which i do not see as a problem. my car looks and seems beautiful from what i see right now. i do not know for sure but i suspect the volvo r models might be hand or specially finished since they only make 5000 a year. i do not know about regular s60s. i am happy my car was built in belgium not ohio. based on this forum, the tl has issues of its own relative to rattles, squeaks, etc.
4) everyone keeps ragging on my cayenne as a poor car. have any of you ridden or driven one? anyone who has would disagree with you. it handles phenomenally, has great power, and is imminently capable off road. all the reviews say it's a great car but question its value. to say it's a bad car is totally incorrect - it's fantastic - to say there are better values out there sure. but then why don't you all buy accords versus tl's then??? if you can afford one, you would like it.
5) lastly, i think stevie mentioned that my s60r couldn't blow the doors off a tl - buddy, what are you smoking? you'll see my tail lights by the time you can figure out how to launch your car assuming you have a 6MT (ok mabe some exaggeration here...)
again, i respect and like the tl and i could easily be driving one now if not the mishaps. i think most people who have read my post respect my decision and car. but i had to reply to the rest of you.....
Unfortunately, every message board I belong to has it's share of internet racers and magazine copy 'n' paste specialists who try to bolster their egos with someone else's numbers (the Car & Driver forum is rife with it). That's just the way it is...don't take it personally.
02-23-2004, 09:58 PM
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Being a Turbo AWD guy (WRX) I looked long and hard at the S60R. But the harder I looked the less I liked it.
First of all was the cost. Fully loaded (but not as loaded as the TL) the S60R comes in at 46K. IMO too much money to spend on a Volvo, in that neigborhood I'm picking the Audi S4.
I did not care too much for the interior, while the seats are good I found the cabin to be small and lacking in high-end touches. Also the lack of a usable handsfree option for my T-Mobile phone bugged me to no end.
But the biggest strike against the S60R was the fact that they neutered the AT model. In order to protect the automatic Geartronic transmission Volvo had to turn down the torque in the AT cars (258 vs 295). Basically an automatic TL is considerably quicker than a AT S60R. Since I was shopping for an AT car the TL plus $11K in hand was a no-brainer for me.
I'm looking to replace the WRX this summer and my first stop will be the local Subaru dealer to check out the new Legacy GT Turbo with its de-tuned STi motor. Subaru is quoting 0-60 in 5.5 sec.
First of all was the cost. Fully loaded (but not as loaded as the TL) the S60R comes in at 46K. IMO too much money to spend on a Volvo, in that neigborhood I'm picking the Audi S4.
I did not care too much for the interior, while the seats are good I found the cabin to be small and lacking in high-end touches. Also the lack of a usable handsfree option for my T-Mobile phone bugged me to no end.
But the biggest strike against the S60R was the fact that they neutered the AT model. In order to protect the automatic Geartronic transmission Volvo had to turn down the torque in the AT cars (258 vs 295). Basically an automatic TL is considerably quicker than a AT S60R. Since I was shopping for an AT car the TL plus $11K in hand was a no-brainer for me.
I'm looking to replace the WRX this summer and my first stop will be the local Subaru dealer to check out the new Legacy GT Turbo with its de-tuned STi motor. Subaru is quoting 0-60 in 5.5 sec.
02-23-2004, 10:19 PM
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Originally posted by DavidNJ
The Volvo has no phone integration...a big thing for me. Also, the I think the ride and basic handling setup is more fluid, more sophisticated in the TL. I'm coming from a 530i and the Volvo felt crude, the TL didn't.
The Volvo has no phone integration...a big thing for me. Also, the I think the ride and basic handling setup is more fluid, more sophisticated in the TL. I'm coming from a 530i and the Volvo felt crude, the TL didn't.
I have an '04 325cic and the Volvo's interior is far more refined and finished with higher quality materials. I guess "crude" is in the eye of the beholder.
02-23-2004, 10:47 PM
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Originally posted by BarryH
Huh? On Call Plus, Volvo's version of OnStar, comes with a TDMA cellular phone built in as part of the option. It's completely integrated with a handset in the console, speaker in the headrest, and mic in the mirror. There's a phone key pad on the dash and additional phone controls on the steering wheel. It doesn't get much more integrated.
Huh? On Call Plus, Volvo's version of OnStar, comes with a TDMA cellular phone built in as part of the option. It's completely integrated with a handset in the console, speaker in the headrest, and mic in the mirror. There's a phone key pad on the dash and additional phone controls on the steering wheel. It doesn't get much more integrated.
Bluetooth allows you to pick your provider and have one number and handset. This is the way to go.
02-24-2004, 10:21 PM
#56
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Nice powerful motor but after looking at the pricing, what the heck did he have to pay to get it equipped like the TL???? There were $$$ adds for everything.
02-24-2004, 10:25 PM
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Originally posted by Swat Dude
Thanks Mspence,
Nice powerful motor but after looking at the pricing, what the heck did he have to pay to get it equipped like the TL???? There were $$$ adds for everything.
Thanks Mspence,
Nice powerful motor but after looking at the pricing, what the heck did he have to pay to get it equipped like the TL???? There were $$$ adds for everything.
02-24-2004, 10:39 PM
#58
There couldn't be a bigger waste of money than buying a Cayenne. The damn thing will get stuck in wet grass!!! If you want a porsche then get a 911 and stay on the road. The Cayenne will be a thing of the past soon. 911's have been around a lonnnng time and always will be. At least the Tourag has excellent off road capabilities and is more attractive IMO. That would be a much better choice. Oh and BTW, I didn't consider a Volvo when shopping because I think they are ugly. The TL is a beautiful car.
02-24-2004, 10:52 PM
#59
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not sure what you are reading... NOTHING i have ever read says anything but that the cayenne has excellent off road capabilties. got proof? besides, considering they are on the same platform and the cayenne's is only further enhanced, how could the tourag be excellent off road and the cayenne not? as far as the looks, to each his own. for example, some people think louisville is ugly.
02-25-2004, 02:15 AM
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Does your s60r have navigation? How good is it? I heard that TL has the best navigation. Bluetooth is also very tempting. European cars have bluetooth now too, what about Volvo? I have long commute and I heard that TL stereo is really good, if I choose Volvo, what I get?
02-25-2004, 08:59 AM
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Re: Just Bought a S60R Over a TL - Long Post
Originally posted by kng
first of all, i have to say that i started my new car search wanting a '04 tl 6MT/navi. i have been reading this forum for over two months in anticipation on my car. i actually still have deposits (which i must now recover) at 2 dealers for an anthracite. this process of waiting - acura's first downfall - gave me time and reason to consider my options. so last night after work, i decided to head to the local volvo dealer just to inquire about the s60r. i have been interested in this car since last summer when my wife and i were deciding between the v70r and the porsche cayenne s(we ended up with a cayenne).
things happen for a reason... and now i have all wheel drive back!
first of all, i have to say that i started my new car search wanting a '04 tl 6MT/navi. i have been reading this forum for over two months in anticipation on my car. i actually still have deposits (which i must now recover) at 2 dealers for an anthracite. this process of waiting - acura's first downfall - gave me time and reason to consider my options. so last night after work, i decided to head to the local volvo dealer just to inquire about the s60r. i have been interested in this car since last summer when my wife and i were deciding between the v70r and the porsche cayenne s(we ended up with a cayenne).
things happen for a reason... and now i have all wheel drive back!
They were selling at the South Bay (CA) Volvo dealership for $47-48k before they were on the lot.
I peeked inside a sold S60 end of last year--It's definately sweet.
Have fun w/that *****in ride..
Too bad I can't afford to have a "Stable" of thoroughbreds...
NathanSilver
02-25-2004, 10:56 AM
#62
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Originally posted by MOCKBA
Does your s60r have navigation? How good is it? I heard that TL has the best navigation. Bluetooth is also very tempting. European cars have bluetooth now too, what about Volvo? I have long commute and I heard that TL stereo is really good, if I choose Volvo, what I get?
Does your s60r have navigation? How good is it? I heard that TL has the best navigation. Bluetooth is also very tempting. European cars have bluetooth now too, what about Volvo? I have long commute and I heard that TL stereo is really good, if I choose Volvo, what I get?
If you order On Call Plus, the car's equipped with an integrated phone that works with AT&T. No Bluetooth. I forward my Verizon phone to the car when I'm in it and use the car's phone for all my outgoing calls.
The HU-803 stereo will blow the TL's away when playing anything but DVD-A discs.
02-25-2004, 01:48 PM
#63
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for commuting...
to answer the question about using the s60r as a commuter...
- yes, the tl's bluetooth option was definitely a selling point that i am sad that i do not have. but since i am a verizon customer, i am unsure as when i would have finally been able to use it. i did not look into the integrated phone option at all because of price.
- yes, the nav was also very cool in the tl. i also did not consider it in the volvo because of price since i was already at the upper level of what i wanted to spend on this car. in the end i am unsure as how useful it would have been but i was excited to try to make it play dvd's and watch tv.
as for the volvo, i can definitely attest to the following traits which makes it a great commuter:
1) the sound system. i was totally excited about the tl for the els system and the demo of the dvd-a blew me away. but since i have no dvd-a's nor would have bought many, i am not sure whether listening to regular cd's with the els would have been that great. the volvo's system was something that i totally discounted going in - but the in dash 4 speaker system, and the power and clarity of the system is very impressive. at this point, i do not miss els at all.
2) the ride comfort. coming from a s4 with 18" rims i was used to a firm ride. the volvo, especially on the soft setting, is so plush to me - but maybe not a lexus owner. i would have to estimate that the soft setting on the s60r is at least as comfortable as the tl, if not more. but the cool part is that when i want to be a little sporty, the sport setting or the advanced setting, which is like race ready, is push of a button away.
3) the front seats. my god, these things are like lazy boys, seriously. at first i though it was kind of cheesy that the leather and foam was so soft - and i guess i still question how it will wear - but these seats are SUPER comfortable and totally bolster you. my wife loves them.
of note, on my first tank of gas i am averaging 20 MPG with 70% highway and 30% city driving which aint bad. of course i am shifting at less than 4k still so...
- yes, the tl's bluetooth option was definitely a selling point that i am sad that i do not have. but since i am a verizon customer, i am unsure as when i would have finally been able to use it. i did not look into the integrated phone option at all because of price.
- yes, the nav was also very cool in the tl. i also did not consider it in the volvo because of price since i was already at the upper level of what i wanted to spend on this car. in the end i am unsure as how useful it would have been but i was excited to try to make it play dvd's and watch tv.
as for the volvo, i can definitely attest to the following traits which makes it a great commuter:
1) the sound system. i was totally excited about the tl for the els system and the demo of the dvd-a blew me away. but since i have no dvd-a's nor would have bought many, i am not sure whether listening to regular cd's with the els would have been that great. the volvo's system was something that i totally discounted going in - but the in dash 4 speaker system, and the power and clarity of the system is very impressive. at this point, i do not miss els at all.
2) the ride comfort. coming from a s4 with 18" rims i was used to a firm ride. the volvo, especially on the soft setting, is so plush to me - but maybe not a lexus owner. i would have to estimate that the soft setting on the s60r is at least as comfortable as the tl, if not more. but the cool part is that when i want to be a little sporty, the sport setting or the advanced setting, which is like race ready, is push of a button away.
3) the front seats. my god, these things are like lazy boys, seriously. at first i though it was kind of cheesy that the leather and foam was so soft - and i guess i still question how it will wear - but these seats are SUPER comfortable and totally bolster you. my wife loves them.
of note, on my first tank of gas i am averaging 20 MPG with 70% highway and 30% city driving which aint bad. of course i am shifting at less than 4k still so...
02-25-2004, 02:41 PM
#65
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Originally posted by BoneDaddy
I checked out the S60 at one of the auto shows and thought the seats were top quality and super comfortable.
I checked out the S60 at one of the auto shows and thought the seats were top quality and super comfortable.
10-31-2005, 10:23 AM
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choice in cars
why would you do that?
there is one thing that you negleted to take into consideration why making this choice. first off.... they do discount the volvo, secondly the amount of extra interest you'll pay on the loan now pushes you further from the over all cost of th tl, thirdly the resale value on the tl is slated to be about 48% at the end of 5 year ( automotive leasing guide set this number not acura) fourthly(is that a word?) if you wanted a good all wheel drive car you should have stayed with your s4 ( road and track mag comparison volvo verse audi.... audi's is better) . you should have also looked at the consumer reports about reliability with volvo. a friend of my wifes is a tech for a volvo dealer here in new york and has seen his fair share of problems ( not that Acura's are perfect) your car is nice looking and all but there is no better value on the market right now then the tl. Take it from me i sell them for a living and just left a vw saab dealer because the TL is so hot. anyway good luck with the vovlo
there is one thing that you negleted to take into consideration why making this choice. first off.... they do discount the volvo, secondly the amount of extra interest you'll pay on the loan now pushes you further from the over all cost of th tl, thirdly the resale value on the tl is slated to be about 48% at the end of 5 year ( automotive leasing guide set this number not acura) fourthly(is that a word?) if you wanted a good all wheel drive car you should have stayed with your s4 ( road and track mag comparison volvo verse audi.... audi's is better) . you should have also looked at the consumer reports about reliability with volvo. a friend of my wifes is a tech for a volvo dealer here in new york and has seen his fair share of problems ( not that Acura's are perfect) your car is nice looking and all but there is no better value on the market right now then the tl. Take it from me i sell them for a living and just left a vw saab dealer because the TL is so hot. anyway good luck with the vovlo
10-31-2005, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by BayshoreAcuraNY
why would you do that?
there is one thing that you negleted to take into consideration why making this choice. first off.... they do discount the volvo, secondly the amount of extra interest you'll pay on the loan now pushes you further from the over all cost of th tl, thirdly the resale value on the tl is slated to be about 48% at the end of 5 year ( automotive leasing guide set this number not acura) fourthly(is that a word?) if you wanted a good all wheel drive car you should have stayed with your s4 ( road and track mag comparison volvo verse audi.... audi's is better) . you should have also looked at the consumer reports about reliability with volvo. a friend of my wifes is a tech for a volvo dealer here in new york and has seen his fair share of problems ( not that Acura's are perfect) your car is nice looking and all but there is no better value on the market right now then the tl. Take it from me i sell them for a living and just left a vw saab dealer because the TL is so hot. anyway good luck with the vovlo
there is one thing that you negleted to take into consideration why making this choice. first off.... they do discount the volvo, secondly the amount of extra interest you'll pay on the loan now pushes you further from the over all cost of th tl, thirdly the resale value on the tl is slated to be about 48% at the end of 5 year ( automotive leasing guide set this number not acura) fourthly(is that a word?) if you wanted a good all wheel drive car you should have stayed with your s4 ( road and track mag comparison volvo verse audi.... audi's is better) . you should have also looked at the consumer reports about reliability with volvo. a friend of my wifes is a tech for a volvo dealer here in new york and has seen his fair share of problems ( not that Acura's are perfect) your car is nice looking and all but there is no better value on the market right now then the tl. Take it from me i sell them for a living and just left a vw saab dealer because the TL is so hot. anyway good luck with the vovlo
They discount the volvo S60R now , this thread is nearly 2 years old !!!
10-31-2005, 12:58 PM
#71
Racer
Originally Posted by mspence3
Congrats!! I love the S60. The style and the driving experience.
I would never finance for 7 years though.
I would never finance for 7 years though.
10-31-2005, 01:56 PM
#72
lilvinnyb
Join Date: Jun 2005
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S60 with Kit
I was a "sweet-azz" silver S60 with an aftermarket kit on it that seriously turned my till I could not see it any more. Other than that, I can only think of volvos's as "old geiser" cars.
10-31-2005, 02:13 PM
#73
Drifting
Why is everyone commenting on a thread such as this when it is over 1.5 years old? Seems pointless at this time. I doubt the original poster even checks this site with any regularity(last post was in May).
10-31-2005, 03:11 PM
#74
The "old" guy
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Originally Posted by kng
......as far as the looks, to each his own. for example, some people think louisville is ugly.
........you guys are killing me here!
10-31-2005, 10:41 PM
#77
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I looked at the Volvo S60R and I could have bought one for the same price as the TL since they are owned by Ford and my father was a Ford employee. In the end I decided to stick with the superior reliability and resale value of the Acura/Honda. When you consider you are financing for 84 months (this is stupidity) and the poor resale value of the Volvo there is a high probability that you are going to find yourself upside down on this loan in no time. Good luck because you are going to be stuck with that car a long looooooong time.
11-01-2005, 12:52 AM
#78
Drifting
Originally Posted by Neumahn
I looked at the Volvo S60R and I could have bought one for the same price as the TL since they are owned by Ford and my father was a Ford employee. In the end I decided to stick with the superior reliability and resale value of the Acura/Honda. When you consider you are financing for 84 months (this is stupidity) and the poor resale value of the Volvo there is a high probability that you are going to find yourself upside down on this loan in no time. Good luck because you are going to be stuck with that car a long looooooong time.
Originally Posted by jayhawk815
Why is everyone commenting on a thread such as this when it is over 1.5 years old? Seems pointless at this time. I doubt the original poster even checks this site with any regularity(last post was in May).
11-01-2005, 02:22 AM
#79
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The threads are left on the site because they are relevant. Other potential TL buyers are reading this site all the time. Just because the original post is old does not mean that it is of no use to anyone.
If we weren't supposed to post here the moderator could have closed the thread.
If we weren't supposed to post here the moderator could have closed the thread.
