Japan Equivalents and Acura History
11-03-2005, 11:49 PM
#1
Cold Racketeer
Thread Starter
Japan Equivalents and Acura History
Here are some very newbie and embarassing questions I have been pondering:
1. What is the heritage of the TL? I looked at some of the first gen photo gallery and it reminds me of my dad's old Camry. What was the original audience for the TL?
2. I know the 2nd gen TLs were INSPIRE in japan. Was it a honda inspire? What was the first gen TL then?
Where did the 3rd gen come from then?
3. the TSX is sold in japan as a honda accord euro, correct? Is the RSX something else in Japan?
4. where did the RL come from and who was it targeted at?
Japan seems to use the brands like toyota and honda, nissan etc rather than luxury labels like acura and lexus... do they have any of these branded cars or is that america/west only?
And anything else anyone else would like to point out about the history of Acura would be great. Just trying to understand where the TL came from and how it fits.
1. What is the heritage of the TL? I looked at some of the first gen photo gallery and it reminds me of my dad's old Camry. What was the original audience for the TL?
2. I know the 2nd gen TLs were INSPIRE in japan. Was it a honda inspire? What was the first gen TL then?
Where did the 3rd gen come from then?
3. the TSX is sold in japan as a honda accord euro, correct? Is the RSX something else in Japan?
4. where did the RL come from and who was it targeted at?
Japan seems to use the brands like toyota and honda, nissan etc rather than luxury labels like acura and lexus... do they have any of these branded cars or is that america/west only?
And anything else anyone else would like to point out about the history of Acura would be great. Just trying to understand where the TL came from and how it fits.
11-03-2005, 11:57 PM
#2
Originally Posted by tzakiel
Here are some very newbie and embarassing questions I have been pondering:
1. What is the heritage of the TL? I looked at some of the first gen photo gallery and it reminds me of my dad's old Camry. What was the original audience for the TL?
2. I know the 2nd gen TLs were INSPIRE in japan. Was it a honda inspire? What was the first gen TL then?
Where did the 3rd gen come from then?
3. the TSX is sold in japan as a honda accord euro, correct? Is the RSX something else in Japan?
4. where did the RL come from and who was it targeted at?
Japan seems to use the brands like toyota and honda, nissan etc rather than luxury labels like acura and lexus... do they have any of these branded cars or is that america/west only?
1. What is the heritage of the TL? I looked at some of the first gen photo gallery and it reminds me of my dad's old Camry. What was the original audience for the TL?
2. I know the 2nd gen TLs were INSPIRE in japan. Was it a honda inspire? What was the first gen TL then?
Where did the 3rd gen come from then?
3. the TSX is sold in japan as a honda accord euro, correct? Is the RSX something else in Japan?
4. where did the RL come from and who was it targeted at?
Japan seems to use the brands like toyota and honda, nissan etc rather than luxury labels like acura and lexus... do they have any of these branded cars or is that america/west only?
TSX is the Honda Accord in Japan and Europe. RSX is Integra.
RL is the Legend in Japan and it's targeted toward the older audience who is not in the $60k+ range like Mercedes, BMW, etc.
Acura brand is only sold in the U.S., Canada and Hong Kong. Anywhere else in the world, it's all Honda.
11-04-2005, 12:13 AM
#3
Marty_1999Acura3.2TL
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The 2.5L(5 cylinder) Acura Vigor inspired the first generation 2.5L(5 cylinder) TL. The vigor engine is also the same(G25A1 engine) as the first generation TL.
11-04-2005, 12:17 AM
#4
Cold Racketeer
Thread Starter
Thanks very much for the replies. So this begs the question... in japan does Acura have the same, more, or less cool factor compared to honda? Do they have lexus and infiniti over there or same stories?
11-04-2005, 12:17 AM
#5
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Originally Posted by Pure Adrenaline
Second generation TL = Honda Inspire... same story with the first generation. The third generation TL is not available in Japan; our Honda Accord is the Honda Inspire in Japan now.
TSX is the Honda Accord in Japan and Europe. RSX is Integra.
RL is the Legend in Japan and it's targeted toward the older audience who is not in the $60k+ range like Mercedes, BMW, etc.
Acura brand is only sold in the U.S., Canada and Hong Kong. Anywhere else in the world, it's all Honda.
TSX is the Honda Accord in Japan and Europe. RSX is Integra.
RL is the Legend in Japan and it's targeted toward the older audience who is not in the $60k+ range like Mercedes, BMW, etc.
Acura brand is only sold in the U.S., Canada and Hong Kong. Anywhere else in the world, it's all Honda.
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11-04-2005, 02:15 AM
#10
05/5AT/Navi/ABP/Quartz
Honda was the first Japanese Mfg to attempt to go up-market in N/A with the Acura brand. The original Legend and Integera were quite a success in the late 80's. Toyota and Nissan held back for a few years to see how Honda did. Lexus and Infinity did Acura one better by coming out with big V8's and kicked Acura's butt in sales. All three were targeting European cars in the search for more profits. Honda/Acura sat on their thumbs for a few years and decided that their main problem was the model names. Everyone knew what a Legend was but nobody heard of Acura. BMW and Mercedes used engine displacement and body series to name their cars so Acura did too.
The rest of the story picks up from the above post. A more interesting story is when Honda first started making cars in the late 1960's. At the time, Honda was a motorcycle company!
The rest of the story picks up from the above post. A more interesting story is when Honda first started making cars in the late 1960's. At the time, Honda was a motorcycle company!
11-04-2005, 04:28 AM
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Originally Posted by tzakiel
Thanks very much for the replies. So this begs the question... in japan does Acura have the same, more, or less cool factor compared to honda? Do they have lexus and infiniti over there or same stories?
11-04-2005, 05:46 AM
#13
Originally Posted by MR1
Honda was the first Japanese Mfg to attempt to go up-market in N/A with the Acura brand. The original Legend and Integera were quite a success in the late 80's. Toyota and Nissan held back for a few years to see how Honda did. Lexus and Infinity did Acura one better by coming out with big V8's and kicked Acura's butt in sales. All three were targeting European cars in the search for more profits. Honda/Acura sat on their thumbs for a few years and decided that their main problem was the model names. Everyone knew what a Legend was but nobody heard of Acura. BMW and Mercedes used engine displacement and body series to name their cars so Acura did too.
The rest of the story picks up from the above post. A more interesting story is when Honda first started making cars in the late 1960's. At the time, Honda was a motorcycle company!
The rest of the story picks up from the above post. A more interesting story is when Honda first started making cars in the late 1960's. At the time, Honda was a motorcycle company!
11-04-2005, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Mar T
The 2.5L(5 cylinder) Acura Vigor inspired the first generation 2.5L(5 cylinder) TL. The vigor engine is also the same(G25A1 engine) as the first generation TL.
11-04-2005, 10:01 AM
#16
` . ' . SUV haterrr
From what I could find on the web, TL was developed for NA market, and major design work was done in US, between Honda design studio in CA and manufacturing facility in Ohio.
As far as the luxury brands go, I think Infiniti is NA only, Acura is NA and some small Asian countries with right side steering. I saw a single Acura Legend in Japan, probably it was reimported. Lexus is sold almost everywhere now, it was launched in Japan few months ago.
As far as the luxury brands go, I think Infiniti is NA only, Acura is NA and some small Asian countries with right side steering. I saw a single Acura Legend in Japan, probably it was reimported. Lexus is sold almost everywhere now, it was launched in Japan few months ago.
11-04-2005, 11:16 AM
#17
05/5AT/Navi/ABP/Quartz
Originally Posted by invincible569
good info. what else do you know?
Most sales were and still may be in N/A, they are bigger here than at home. At one time they were building some Accords (Wagon?) here in exporting them to Japan
. At one point they set up a joint venture with Rover to get stronger in Europe. Rover took the Legend, renamed it the Sterling and almost ruined Honda over there. The car was also briefly sold here. I almost bought one (what the hell was I thinking?).Honda/Acura has never had the money to go head/head against Toyota/Lexus and never will. I also don't think they seriously want to. The big challange is to remain independent and profitable in a worlwide industry that has to much capacity and to many players. They don't want to end up like Nissan or Mazda. They have always been a successful niche player that provides good performance and value for our dollars.
We bought our first Honda; a Civic CVCC Hatchback Semi-Automatic in 1978. That one cost $4200.00. That car outran my 1978 4-Spd Volkswagen Scirocco ($7500.00), held 4 full sized adults and stayed in our family for about 15 years, unlike the problem prone VW. Sorry you asked yet?
BTW The first Honda sold here was the S600 I think. It was kind of a clone of the Mini Cooper. Try to find one.
11-04-2005, 04:53 PM
#18
Marty_1999Acura3.2TL
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Originally Posted by hcekc
Don't mean to go off on a tangent, but Mar T, your avatar is so GAY and is bugging the $hit outta me. Spiderman deserves better. Get rid of it. Who agrees?
11-04-2005, 07:05 PM
#19
Originally Posted by Mar T
The 2.5L(5 cylinder) Acura Vigor inspired the first generation 2.5L(5 cylinder) TL. The vigor engine is also the same(G25A1 engine) as the first generation TL.
11-04-2005, 07:09 PM
#20
Originally Posted by tzakiel
Thanks very much for the replies. So this begs the question... in japan does Acura have the same, more, or less cool factor compared to honda? Do they have lexus and infiniti over there or same stories?
we try to make our cars look as japanese as possible by putting their parts badges on our car... and they try to make their cars as american as they can by putting our stock parts on their car (amber turn signals)... too bad their can't be an int'l swap meet...
11-04-2005, 07:15 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by KaMLuNg
the first and second generation also had a SABER model.. that would be the 2.5 eninge if im not mistaken... the INSPIRE model would be the model with the 3.2 model...
11-04-2005, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by tzakiel
Here are some very newbie and embarassing questions I have been pondering:
1. What is the heritage of the TL? I looked at some of the first gen photo gallery and it reminds me of my dad's old Camry. What was the original audience for the TL?
1. What is the heritage of the TL? I looked at some of the first gen photo gallery and it reminds me of my dad's old Camry. What was the original audience for the TL?
Originally Posted by tzakiel
2. I know the 2nd gen TLs were INSPIRE in japan. Was it a honda inspire? What was the first gen TL then?
.
Originally Posted by tzakiel
3. the TSX is sold in japan as a honda accord euro, correct? Is the RSX something else in Japan?
Originally Posted by tzakiel
4.where did the RL come from and who was it targeted at?
Originally Posted by tzakiel
So this begs the question... in japan does Acura have the same, more, or less cool factor compared to honda? Do they have lexus and infiniti over there or same stories?
After a decade of research and development, Acura launched the Legend-the first Japanese luxury brand to appear in the U.S. market. Since its arrival, it has offered the luxury car world a consistently appealing combination of precision, performance and comfort. A large part of the success of the Legend can be attributed to the fact that it set a new standard for luxury based on qualities that were rare in luxury cars of the day, such as precise handling, responsive power trains and excellent road manners. In this respect, Acura has had a significant effect on the way people think about luxury cars.
In addition to the Acura Legend sedan and coupe, were the Acura Integra sport coupes and sedans which featured attractive contours, high performance potential and outstanding engineering credentials at a competitive price. Its extensive technological innovations, crisp handling and everyday practicality made it the favorite of a generation of enthusiast drivers.
The exotic Acura NSX sport coupe created great fanfare, bringing a host of new technologies to the automotive world. Motor Trend called it the "best sports car ever built." The aluminum bodied, mid-engine supercar redefined the exotic sports car. Here was a two-seater with the performance potential of traditional European exotics but could also be driven every day in complete comfort and with utter reliability.
In 1987, the Acura Legend coupe won Motor Trend's prestigious Import Car of the Year trophy. The same year, the Integra took the laurels as one of Car & Driver's Ten Best, and the Acura Vigor sport sedan was introduced, bridging the gap between the sporty Integra and the luxurious Legend.
The groundbreaking Acura MDX sport-utility vehicle made its debut in 2000. Conceived and developed at a Honda R&D facility in Ohio, the Acura MDX is built in North America. The 253-hp V-6 engine and a custom-developed 4-wheel drive system make the MDX uniquely qualified to travel both the freeways and the back roads with equal confidence. Shortly after its introduction, the MDX won the prestigious Motor Trend "2001 Sport/Utility of the Year" award.
In 2001, the streamlined Acura RSX sports coupe was introduced. It was the first Acura to employ the i-VTEC?system, which delivers flexibility, efficiency and LEV-II (Low Emission Vehicle) rated emissions. The 155-hp RSX shared its debut with the even sportier RSX Type-S, which employs a more sophisticated i-VTEC system to help wrest 201 peak horsepower from the 2.0-liter LEV-II engine. The RSX Type-S arrived on the market with an exclusive short-throw 6-speed manual transmission.
Performance enthusiasts across the country were forced to reprioritize their fantasies with the April 2003 introduction of the 2004 Acura TSX sports sedan. The 200-hp TSX, available with Sequential SportShift?5-speed automatic or close-ratio 6-speed manual transmission, was quickly recognized as a 4-door antidote to the compromises of settling down.
In October of 2003, an even higher form of performance arrived with the debut of the all-new 2004 TL. From its class-leading 258-horsepower, 3.2-liter engine to the bold, sleek lines of its redesigned exterior, the new TL redefines modern luxury. Inside, plush leather seats and an impressive list of technologies fill the instrument panel, including HandsFreeLink?with Bluetooth?wireless technology and the Acura/ELS?Premium 8-speaker Surround Sound System with DVD-Audio and DTS CD 6-disc Changer.
Now, the all-new 2006 RL is making history by redefining the luxury performance sedan. With a 290-horsepower, V-6, VTEC engine, it boasts the most powerful Acura engine to date. Its revolutionary Super Handling All-Wheel Drive?(SH-AWD? system is the world's most advanced all-wheel-drive platform, which makes maneuvering and cornering more stable and precise. And the all-new RL is North America's first and only automobile to feature a telematics system with real-time traffic that displays traffic updates 24 hours a day in select metropolitan areas.
Hope I answered some of your questions
11-05-2005, 04:53 AM
#25
Originally Posted by z06girl
The RL is made only in the North America, a direct competition of the Infinit M class. There is no RL in asian countries, Japan included.
There is no "Acura" in Japan. It's only a North America brand, as America and Japan together created a luxury brand for Honda lovers. In Japan, and most of the European countries still carry the Honda or "H" badge. The History of Acura can be found in History of Acura Brand
http://www.honda.co.jp/auto-lineup/legend/
Acura exists in the U.S., Canada, and Hong Kong.
11-05-2005, 05:13 AM
#26
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You've got some seriously bad info on the 1st gen TL 
Its not an Accord, nor Accord based. The body, engine layout and suspension are RADICALLY different.
It has either the 5 cylinder Vigor motor or the Legend 6 cylinder. The 3.2's transmission is shared with the 1st generation RL.
Its not an Accord, nor Accord based. The body, engine layout and suspension are RADICALLY different.
It has either the 5 cylinder Vigor motor or the Legend 6 cylinder. The 3.2's transmission is shared with the 1st generation RL.
11-05-2005, 05:13 AM
#27
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Originally Posted by Pure Adrenaline
RL = Legend in Japan
http://www.honda.co.jp/auto-lineup/legend/
Acura exists in the U.S., Canada, and Hong Kong.
http://www.honda.co.jp/auto-lineup/legend/
Acura exists in the U.S., Canada, and Hong Kong.
11-05-2005, 03:55 PM
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The groundbreaking Acura MDX sport-utility vehicle made its debut in 2000. Conceived and developed at a Honda R&D facility in Ohio, the Acura MDX is built in North America. The 253-hp V-6 engine and a custom-developed 4-wheel drive system make the MDX uniquely qualified to travel both the freeways and the back roads with equal confidence. Shortly after its introduction, the MDX won the prestigious Motor Trend "2001 Sport/Utility of the Year" award.
As for the TL
Acura (which still has no clue)made the I-5 only Vigor to fill the gap between the Intergra and Legend. This clueless company then realized they were the only asshats with Lincoln and Caddy that were luxury brands with names. But Lincoln and Caddy had history on their side. Acura didn't. Legend and Integra DEFINE Acura, even TO THIS DAY. You say "acura' and today, people think LEgend or rice or Intergra.
The Vigor failed, sold like crap, reviews were lackluster. They decided to change the name to TL and keep the silly I-5 and the V-6 from the Legend. The made the TL look like a longer, boxier ES 300 (refector headlights, pillarless windows, crease in rear, etc)
Here was another average Acura, solid like crap, reviews were lackluster.
Acura then had the bright idea, to make the car even cheaper and share parts with the Accord and build it in America to save money. They at least got 1 thing right, loading the car with features.
Thus the 2nd gen TL in 1999, which didn't win the press over but it was cheap and loaded, which agreed with buyers who wanted a luxury nameplate but didn't have to spend tons. It also had bland styling, which sold to consumers. The TYpe-S came whcih was hella fast. THen the tranny issues and quality issues blew up, as the car had poor quality control.
But Honda said who cares, the car is finally selling.
Acura, again, not having a clue, changed the whole front end in only 2/12 years of production, pissing off the 99-00 owners. Luxury car companies don't change ofter, but Acura does.
Then the 3rd gen TL comes, which again, looks nothing like the previous version, confusing buyers. Unlike any Acura sold before, this one had some style and is again loaded. Consumer responded, which is good for ACura.
THe 3rd gen TL is an AMeican car. Designed here, made here, ONLY for AMerica. It has done very well sales wise. The press likes it much better than any other TL but it hasn't come close to winnning any comparisons and now its overpowered the FWD layout.
SO its history is a confusing one but at least the car sells VERY well now.
11-05-2005, 05:28 PM
#29
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my my mr cynic
also... mdx is an uglier copy of the rx? LMAO
what a bunch of crap. it looks much better than the lexus egg. people always say honda is late to the game, but when they arrive, they arrive with a bang. the mdx was also so ugly that it sold very well. right?
also... mdx is an uglier copy of the rx? LMAO
what a bunch of crap. it looks much better than the lexus egg. people always say honda is late to the game, but when they arrive, they arrive with a bang. the mdx was also so ugly that it sold very well. right?
11-05-2005, 05:43 PM
#30
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Originally Posted by AcuraGT-3
Groudbreaking? LMAO. This suv was LATE to the game and really just a huge, uglier copy of the RX 300 which came out years before.
As for the TL
Acura (which still has no clue)made the I-5 only Vigor to fill the gap between the Intergra and Legend. This clueless company then realized they were the only asshats with Lincoln and Caddy that were luxury brands with names. But Lincoln and Caddy had history on their side. Acura didn't. Legend and Integra DEFINE Acura, even TO THIS DAY. You say "acura' and today, people think LEgend or rice or Intergra.
The Vigor failed, sold like crap, reviews were lackluster. They decided to change the name to TL and keep the silly I-5 and the V-6 from the Legend. The made the TL look like a longer, boxier ES 300 (refector headlights, pillarless windows, crease in rear, etc)
Here was another average Acura, solid like crap, reviews were lackluster.
Acura then had the bright idea, to make the car even cheaper and share parts with the Accord and build it in America to save money. They at least got 1 thing right, loading the car with features.
Thus the 2nd gen TL in 1999, which didn't win the press over but it was cheap and loaded, which agreed with buyers who wanted a luxury nameplate but didn't have to spend tons. It also had bland styling, which sold to consumers. The TYpe-S came whcih was hella fast. THen the tranny issues and quality issues blew up, as the car had poor quality control.
But Honda said who cares, the car is finally selling.
Acura, again, not having a clue, changed the whole front end in only 2/12 years of production, pissing off the 99-00 owners. Luxury car companies don't change ofter, but Acura does.
Then the 3rd gen TL comes, which again, looks nothing like the previous version, confusing buyers. Unlike any Acura sold before, this one had some style and is again loaded. Consumer responded, which is good for ACura.
THe 3rd gen TL is an AMeican car. Designed here, made here, ONLY for AMerica. It has done very well sales wise. The press likes it much better than any other TL but it hasn't come close to winnning any comparisons and now its overpowered the FWD layout.
SO its history is a confusing one but at least the car sells VERY well now.
As for the TL
Acura (which still has no clue)made the I-5 only Vigor to fill the gap between the Intergra and Legend. This clueless company then realized they were the only asshats with Lincoln and Caddy that were luxury brands with names. But Lincoln and Caddy had history on their side. Acura didn't. Legend and Integra DEFINE Acura, even TO THIS DAY. You say "acura' and today, people think LEgend or rice or Intergra.
The Vigor failed, sold like crap, reviews were lackluster. They decided to change the name to TL and keep the silly I-5 and the V-6 from the Legend. The made the TL look like a longer, boxier ES 300 (refector headlights, pillarless windows, crease in rear, etc)
Here was another average Acura, solid like crap, reviews were lackluster.
Acura then had the bright idea, to make the car even cheaper and share parts with the Accord and build it in America to save money. They at least got 1 thing right, loading the car with features.
Thus the 2nd gen TL in 1999, which didn't win the press over but it was cheap and loaded, which agreed with buyers who wanted a luxury nameplate but didn't have to spend tons. It also had bland styling, which sold to consumers. The TYpe-S came whcih was hella fast. THen the tranny issues and quality issues blew up, as the car had poor quality control.
But Honda said who cares, the car is finally selling.
Acura, again, not having a clue, changed the whole front end in only 2/12 years of production, pissing off the 99-00 owners. Luxury car companies don't change ofter, but Acura does.
Then the 3rd gen TL comes, which again, looks nothing like the previous version, confusing buyers. Unlike any Acura sold before, this one had some style and is again loaded. Consumer responded, which is good for ACura.
THe 3rd gen TL is an AMeican car. Designed here, made here, ONLY for AMerica. It has done very well sales wise. The press likes it much better than any other TL but it hasn't come close to winnning any comparisons and now its overpowered the FWD layout.
SO its history is a confusing one but at least the car sells VERY well now.
As for the Vigor/TL, every car company has had a slow-selling model atleast once in their existence. Lexus screwed up with the ES250/Cressida. The first gen GS300 wasn't even heard of. The IS300 was a dissapointment. As far as TL looking like an ES300 back then, are you kidding me? If your gonna put it that way, then the Lexus copied the Accords reflector headlights.
Unless you represent the entire US population, don't pretend like you know what people think of when they hear Acura. Lexus has rice too, they just like to mask it by calling it VIP.
Besides for the headlight re-design on the 2nd gen TL, can you please tell me exactly how Acura changes their designs to fast? The 2nd generation Integra had the same basic design for it's entire production life. The RL was almost untouched until the 2nd generation came out. The RSX has barely had any changes, same with the TSX. The NSX, well, I don't even need to go there. MDX, almost unchanged. So tell me again what your trying to say here.
As for the 3rd generation TL not winning any accolades... One I can think of off the top of my head is "2005 Consumers Most Wanted." Or maybe getting first place in a comparison with the Volvo S60R. Or how about the 4th safest car in the United States (Acura RL is the safest car in the US).
Again, please enlighten me where it's needed.
11-05-2005, 05:53 PM
#31
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BTW, for anybody who didn't know... as obvious as it already is...
AcuraGT-3 = 1SICKLEX
Go back to your cave you troll! Do the guys at ClubLexus know what a psycho you are? You are so pathetic.
AcuraGT-3 = 1SICKLEX
Go back to your cave you troll! Do the guys at ClubLexus know what a psycho you are? You are so pathetic.
11-05-2005, 06:23 PM
#32
Originally Posted by AcuraGT-3
Groudbreaking? LMAO. This suv was LATE to the game and really just a huge, uglier copy of the RX 300 which came out years before.
As for the TL
Acura (which still has no clue)made the I-5 only Vigor to fill the gap between the Intergra and Legend. This clueless company then realized they were the only asshats with Lincoln and Caddy that were luxury brands with names. But Lincoln and Caddy had history on their side. Acura didn't. Legend and Integra DEFINE Acura, even TO THIS DAY. You say "acura' and today, people think LEgend or rice or Intergra.
The Vigor failed, sold like crap, reviews were lackluster. They decided to change the name to TL and keep the silly I-5 and the V-6 from the Legend. The made the TL look like a longer, boxier ES 300 (refector headlights, pillarless windows, crease in rear, etc)
Here was another average Acura, solid like crap, reviews were lackluster.
Acura then had the bright idea, to make the car even cheaper and share parts with the Accord and build it in America to save money. They at least got 1 thing right, loading the car with features.
Thus the 2nd gen TL in 1999, which didn't win the press over but it was cheap and loaded, which agreed with buyers who wanted a luxury nameplate but didn't have to spend tons. It also had bland styling, which sold to consumers. The TYpe-S came whcih was hella fast. THen the tranny issues and quality issues blew up, as the car had poor quality control.
But Honda said who cares, the car is finally selling.
Acura, again, not having a clue, changed the whole front end in only 2/12 years of production, pissing off the 99-00 owners. Luxury car companies don't change ofter, but Acura does.
Then the 3rd gen TL comes, which again, looks nothing like the previous version, confusing buyers. Unlike any Acura sold before, this one had some style and is again loaded. Consumer responded, which is good for ACura.
THe 3rd gen TL is an AMeican car. Designed here, made here, ONLY for AMerica. It has done very well sales wise. The press likes it much better than any other TL but it hasn't come close to winnning any comparisons and now its overpowered the FWD layout.
SO its history is a confusing one but at least the car sells VERY well now.
As for the TL
Acura (which still has no clue)made the I-5 only Vigor to fill the gap between the Intergra and Legend. This clueless company then realized they were the only asshats with Lincoln and Caddy that were luxury brands with names. But Lincoln and Caddy had history on their side. Acura didn't. Legend and Integra DEFINE Acura, even TO THIS DAY. You say "acura' and today, people think LEgend or rice or Intergra.
The Vigor failed, sold like crap, reviews were lackluster. They decided to change the name to TL and keep the silly I-5 and the V-6 from the Legend. The made the TL look like a longer, boxier ES 300 (refector headlights, pillarless windows, crease in rear, etc)
Here was another average Acura, solid like crap, reviews were lackluster.
Acura then had the bright idea, to make the car even cheaper and share parts with the Accord and build it in America to save money. They at least got 1 thing right, loading the car with features.
Thus the 2nd gen TL in 1999, which didn't win the press over but it was cheap and loaded, which agreed with buyers who wanted a luxury nameplate but didn't have to spend tons. It also had bland styling, which sold to consumers. The TYpe-S came whcih was hella fast. THen the tranny issues and quality issues blew up, as the car had poor quality control.
But Honda said who cares, the car is finally selling.
Acura, again, not having a clue, changed the whole front end in only 2/12 years of production, pissing off the 99-00 owners. Luxury car companies don't change ofter, but Acura does.
Then the 3rd gen TL comes, which again, looks nothing like the previous version, confusing buyers. Unlike any Acura sold before, this one had some style and is again loaded. Consumer responded, which is good for ACura.
THe 3rd gen TL is an AMeican car. Designed here, made here, ONLY for AMerica. It has done very well sales wise. The press likes it much better than any other TL but it hasn't come close to winnning any comparisons and now its overpowered the FWD layout.
SO its history is a confusing one but at least the car sells VERY well now.
11-05-2005, 08:10 PM
#33
Three Wheelin'
Glad to see there are people who can defend what Honda/Acura have done without deviating from objectivity and levelheadedness.
In fact, if any car company out there has the right to be spoken of with the word "groundbreaking" in the same sentence, it's Honda/Acura. You only need to look no further back than 1990 to the launch of the NSX, in fact. Its use of (and this is just a very abbreviated list) an all-aluminum body and suspension, titanium connecting rods, and the now fabled variable valve timing technology that catapulted it to the very top of Formula 1 sent a very loud message to every boardroom stretching from Maranello to Stuttgart to Detroit. The fact that countless automakers have subsequently adopted the variable valve timing technology first popularized in the NSX speaks volumes of just how much Honda/Acura is revered and respected throughout the realm of automotive engineers. And bear in mind also that much of the applications originally found on the NSX have subsequently filtered down to other models in Honda/Acura's lineup, resulting in a uniquely sporting DNA for the entire marque.
Yes, there are companies that sell more cars than Honda/Acura, and yes, there are makes that have more prestige and desirability from a layman's point of view, but to the connoisseur, Honda/Acura occupies a very rarefied space in the hierarchy of automobiles, and justifiably so.
In fact, if any car company out there has the right to be spoken of with the word "groundbreaking" in the same sentence, it's Honda/Acura. You only need to look no further back than 1990 to the launch of the NSX, in fact. Its use of (and this is just a very abbreviated list) an all-aluminum body and suspension, titanium connecting rods, and the now fabled variable valve timing technology that catapulted it to the very top of Formula 1 sent a very loud message to every boardroom stretching from Maranello to Stuttgart to Detroit. The fact that countless automakers have subsequently adopted the variable valve timing technology first popularized in the NSX speaks volumes of just how much Honda/Acura is revered and respected throughout the realm of automotive engineers. And bear in mind also that much of the applications originally found on the NSX have subsequently filtered down to other models in Honda/Acura's lineup, resulting in a uniquely sporting DNA for the entire marque.
Yes, there are companies that sell more cars than Honda/Acura, and yes, there are makes that have more prestige and desirability from a layman's point of view, but to the connoisseur, Honda/Acura occupies a very rarefied space in the hierarchy of automobiles, and justifiably so.
11-05-2005, 08:36 PM
#34
Aaaarrrggghhhh!
Originally Posted by vtecracer
BTW, for anybody who didn't know... as obvious as it already is...
AcuraGT-3 = 1SICKLEX
Go back to your cave you troll! Do the guys at ClubLexus know what a psycho you are? You are so pathetic.
AcuraGT-3 = 1SICKLEX
Go back to your cave you troll! Do the guys at ClubLexus know what a psycho you are? You are so pathetic.
Ha ha... AcuraGT-3 = 1SICKLEX =
11-05-2005, 08:52 PM
#35
Senior Moderator
well, this thread began to deteriorate fast. 
While it's VERY true that Acura established this upscale segment for Japanese automakers, Lexus totally ran off with it and NEVER looked back nor had to until recently (read: Infiniti's resurgence).
Acura has a storied history (mostly among Hondaphiles and assorted other auto enthusiasts) but, transitioning from the highly regarded 2G Legend to what was a pretty innocuous 1G RL was not the best thing for brand identity and recognition.
With the debut of VTEC in the JDM Integra and then a year later in the NSX, Acura definitely made it's mark in the automotive world. However, I believe Fiat was the first automaker to develop a VVTL motor.
And AcuraGT's (or 1Sicklex or whoever) comments about the MDX was only true in one regard: it was late to the SUV game. However, when it came, it came with a vengence. Acura's MDX almost makes me forget that there was ever an SLX.
But the pissing match with the MDX vs RX is silly guys. Both are awesome SUVs in their own rite. The MDX has more utility than the RX and the RX has more style IMHO (especially with the current 2G RX, which is HOT!!). For a nice road trip, I'd love to have the MDX but for getting around locally/regionally, the RX works perfectly.
While it's VERY true that Acura established this upscale segment for Japanese automakers, Lexus totally ran off with it and NEVER looked back nor had to until recently (read: Infiniti's resurgence).
Acura has a storied history (mostly among Hondaphiles and assorted other auto enthusiasts) but, transitioning from the highly regarded 2G Legend to what was a pretty innocuous 1G RL was not the best thing for brand identity and recognition.
With the debut of VTEC in the JDM Integra and then a year later in the NSX, Acura definitely made it's mark in the automotive world. However, I believe Fiat was the first automaker to develop a VVTL motor.
And AcuraGT's (or 1Sicklex or whoever) comments about the MDX was only true in one regard: it was late to the SUV game. However, when it came, it came with a vengence. Acura's MDX almost makes me forget that there was ever an SLX.
But the pissing match with the MDX vs RX is silly guys. Both are awesome SUVs in their own rite. The MDX has more utility than the RX and the RX has more style IMHO (especially with the current 2G RX, which is HOT!!). For a nice road trip, I'd love to have the MDX but for getting around locally/regionally, the RX works perfectly.
11-06-2005, 01:43 AM
#36
Instructor
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Originally Posted by SebringSilver
In fact, if any car company out there has the right to be spoken of with the word "groundbreaking" in the same sentence, it's Honda/Acura.
Toyota/Lexus has never in my recent memory introduced ANYTHING that has been groundbreaking. I'm not trying to bash here or anything, but I am seriously being honest. I can't think of ONE groundbreaking development that was introduced by Toyota. If I'm missing something major, someone please let me know. You would think with all the money Toyota has, they could atleast have ONE car that showcases their technology. With Acura and Honda though, it seems like with every new model introduced, they always introduce a piece of technology thats ground breaking for the entire industry and if not the industry, atleast the class of the car. The 3rd gen TL was even groundbreaking for petes sake. TL was the first car to offer standard 5.1 sound system, and I THINK first car to have bluetooth, period, let alone standard. Im not trying to start a different debate here, but it wasn't until AFTER the debut of the 3rd gen. Acura TL that I started seeing cars like BMW, MB, Infiniti, Audi and Lexus offering bluetooth technology. Sadly, it looks like even the Lexus LF-A isn't going to showcase anything groundbreaking either. The LF-A=the car that is supposed to showcase what Toyota/Lexus is all about. Sad.
11-06-2005, 02:56 AM
#37
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Originally Posted by bo0sting2mch
lexus infiniti and acura only marketed for US, in japan there is no such thing as lexus, infiniti and acura...more like toyota nissan and honda
Toyota plans Lexus to be a global luxury brand and has opened dealerships in Japan to sell the Lexus brand. Just Google "Lexus Japan" for proof.
China is a growth market and the perfect place to grow new high end branding. Acura should do well there, as I've heard it has a foothold in HK.
11-06-2005, 03:36 AM
#38
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by triggle
True in the past, but the times are a changin !
Toyota plans Lexus to be a global luxury brand and has opened dealerships in Japan to sell the Lexus brand. Just Google "Lexus Japan" for proof.
China is a growth market and the perfect place to grow new high end branding. Acura should do well there, as I've heard it has a foothold in HK.
Toyota plans Lexus to be a global luxury brand and has opened dealerships in Japan to sell the Lexus brand. Just Google "Lexus Japan" for proof.
China is a growth market and the perfect place to grow new high end branding. Acura should do well there, as I've heard it has a foothold in HK.
11-06-2005, 03:56 AM
#39
Originally Posted by SebringSilver
Acura cars are not being sold in China at present, and Hondas are not exactly the most popular brand either. For sociopolitical reasons, Japanese products need to work harder to gain the same level of acceptance in China that products from other foreign countries do. Some of the best selling makes in China at present are Volkswagen, Audi, and (believe it or not) Buick, all of which have large production facilities in China. I can't see the Lexus brand doing well in China anytime soon, nor the Acura brand for that matter.
11-06-2005, 12:16 PM
#40
Racer
Originally Posted by vtecracer
Amen to that, Brotha!
Toyota/Lexus has never in my recent memory introduced ANYTHING that has been groundbreaking. I'm not trying to bash here or anything, but I am seriously being honest. I can't think of ONE groundbreaking development that was introduced by Toyota. If I'm missing something major, someone please let me know....
Toyota/Lexus has never in my recent memory introduced ANYTHING that has been groundbreaking. I'm not trying to bash here or anything, but I am seriously being honest. I can't think of ONE groundbreaking development that was introduced by Toyota. If I'm missing something major, someone please let me know....