Aegir

Test conditions:
81F, 245/40/18 tires @ 38psi, 8100 miles, 3rd gear pulls (about the same as the baseline run).

Car was run 'off the street' (hot) for two pulls. Best power was after cooling for about five minutes with the fans – just like in the baseline last week. I asked about the 3rd gear pulls and found out that the previous dyno run was also in 3rd gear. This is a correction from my last post.

Baseline pull was done last week. The only modification was that the intake resonator and ducting had been removed, leaving just the stock filter box with a new Acura filter. http://acura-tl.com/forums/showpost....9&postcount=39

Gains in hp and torque were observed after 4000rpm. Peaks were up about 8hp and 4ftlbs.



Why weren’t the gains higher? This is where the pitfall of pulling the resonator prior to the baseline becomes a problem. Theory 1 is that my baseline isn’t really stock. Warning - Potential for endless speculation! On my first test, I compared the results to the results from three other 6MT TL dynos and determined there was effectively no gain. My baseline is a bit lower to 4500 and about even above that with the average of the other three I compared, but trying to conclude something from that involves a lot of speculation. Some other things I’ve thought about are gear run (3rd vs. unknown for the other pulls), tires (wider), and weather differences (car differences not air differences between a summer dyno and a winter dyno). Any or all of these could muck up comparisons. Maybe the intake mod did add a bit of power, stealing a bit of the Injen’s thunder? This could account for some of the difference between advertised and actual gains. Just keep all this speculation in mind if trying to compare this dyno to another.

Theory 2 is that the advertised results had more cooldown, comparison differences, dyno differences, car differences, or some other factors, resulting in bigger gains. Not uncommon and I wouldn’t be surprised if that was part of it.

Theory 3 is that about 10 hp is what one should expect from a CAI. These are good gains, my car is making good power, and I should be happy. I’m going with Theory 3 unless I see more data (like more TLs on the same dyno) that makes me think otherwise. I'm happy.

An interesting data point: All dynos are different, but the guys at DSR told me stock 350z’s make about 235hp on their dyno. In their opinion my TL is putting out significantly more power than the 270 it is rated at.

For those in the San Jose area, the guys at DynoSpot Racing are great. http://www.dynospotracing.com/default.htm

Road Rage

Aegir - good stuff. Hard to make inferences from this, though, as IAT's have to be identical to make even the slightest significance out of a run like this. And Just the differences in the filters can swing a few ponies here and there - you did not have a low-restriction air filter on the baseline, did you? The other thing is you removed the res, which is a related upstream part of the tuned runner plate in the TL - I think you might actually have seen an advantage of the stock system WITh the res because they use Helmholtz tuning to optimise the mid-range juice. Peak-HP is fine, and important for a bit higher trap speed, and if you track at consistently high RPM. In a stock system, the added mid-range TQ can be an advantage in "street encounters".

Where does the INJEN draw air from, and what filter elemkent does it use?

Thx for the excellent post and picture - keep up the good work.

Aegir

Thanks. My decision not to dyno prior to removing the resonator has been eating at me as I've looked this over. Unfortunately, my work has been more spontaneous than methodical. I regret that it clouds analysis, but not enough to reinstall it and return to the dyno for a proper baseline. That can be someone elses adventure. You are right on with the IAT comment. This car is temperature sensitive. I probably could have made 240+ if I had cooled the car for an hour or so. I guess I'd be in the parts business then! The best I could do was follow the same cooldown process between runs in both sessions. A good OBDII scanner is on my Christmas list.

Power improvements were where I was looking for them. I'm typically between 4500 and 6500 when I'm off 'soothing my soul' in the twisty hills out here. Of course, I'd like more. Maybe exhaust in the future - but it may be hard to improve on what's there - very efficient. I'm still a bit up in the air on whether or not the louder sound is right for this car - but I do enjoy it.

The initial run was with a new Honda OEM air filter - installed just before heading to the dyno. I would have liked to have tried a high flow filter, but the only one available so far is the 'trim to fit' K&N. I was hoping that using a new OEM filter would minimize any filter variables.

The new filter appears to be a K&N cone (says Injen). It draws air from behind the bumper air inlet.

neuronbob

Thank you for this excellent post, Aegir. Even though I'm not into engine mods, I learned something from it. I think that 10 hp is a reasonable gain from a CAI, so I agree with your Theory 3.

winstrolvtec

Not sure if dynos are effected by rim size but does anyone think it could be a factor? Usually those guys will simulate road driving by taking hood off and using oversized blowers to get a little more air going.

Sherlock

I don't know how much this would factor either, but after my last shop visit when I got the new ECU programming, you'd have thought I got a new engine with 25 more HP and a new tranny. Some serious power change came with that firmware flash. Maybe some of the cars were at different levels.

Just another thought in the bundle.

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

Though the TL may be putting out more than 270hp ... it's still doggy dog slow in 5AT format....

TLover

Please elaborate on this ECU flash upgrade.

Michaelvg1

Yes. Please elaborate.....

NightRider

Right, nothing until about 3K in 5AT. Aegir, do you believe power was taken away with the removal of the resonator? I have my fingers crossed that b/c K&N already promotes increased airflow, with the piping removed and the filter, it will be even better. Of course the only way to find out for sure is a dyno...anyone know a dyno place in CO? I would also like to know about this ECU, I wasn't aware they had any upgrades as of yet.

Aegir

As I mentioned, comparing dynos involves a lot of speculation. I really should have done a baseline prior to removing the resonator to be able to draw better conclusions. I'm now speculating that my car dyno'd a bit lower than the other three dyno's I compared to (based on the shape of the curves comparing low rpm to high rpm results), and if that's the case I may have gotten a bit of top end power and torque from removing the resonator. Road Rage believes I could have lost some mid-range power and that may be the case. Looking back, I do regret not getting the baseline first. If you are going to do similar mods, I'd really recommend hitting the dyno first so that you can make better comparisons. It's too much work and money for me to backtrack at this point.

IMO, looking at the stock system on my workbench, I think it is inevitable that the power and airflow are compromised for acoustics, packaging, cost, and ease of manufacturing. This seems especially true when looking at the filter box.

IMO, the K&N probably does not flow more than a new OEM filter. It's hard to get past the surface area difference between the two.

Here is a dyno locator: http://www.dynojet.com/dyno_centers/...ve/index.shtml

Nodoze2004

Any chance of some audio clips with the intake installed? I would love to get an idea of the difference between stock and with the CAI. Interior and exterior would be great both at idle and revving the engine.

I know it is alot to ask but some of us would really love them!!

nick04tl

i just put my injen cai on today and i think it sounds great. i couldnt stand not hearing the engine as the revs increased. the cai produces a nice tone once you get to 3k. at idle it is as quiet as stock. i am extremely pleased with it. the results you got on the dyno seem to be alittle higher than what injen got when they dynoed it.

Zero523

Im working on trying to get my Car 0-60 to 5.5 seconds... They need to release some performance parts for our cars already.. thats the problem with the TL... the G35 Had tons of Mods afte like 3 months of release... We got a fucking INTAKE made by Injen.. Which i would rather have a AEM CAI..

Road Rage

Aegir has posted a lot of good thinking - Although K&N portrays a simple more air = more power paradigm, it of course is not that simple. The equation has meaning if the air intake CFM on a vehicle were below what is needed to fully charge the cylinders with air and fuel. On our car, it isn't. Using standard computations, it can be demonstrated that for the displacement and maximum useable RPM, the stock system flows more than it can use. Now, the K&N may improve throttle tip in response a bit, since it can allow a bigger "gulp" of air due to slightly less restriction.

Also, consider that air filtration is a dynamic model - when new, paper filters flow very well, because the filter media consists of holes of varying size. A paper filter generally filters WORSE than even a porous K&N. As the miles build up, the larger holes get filled with debris, and the K&N has an advantage (small, but there) of being to maintain decent flow rates even as it becomes dirty - and its filtration efficacy also improves.

Some people I know change their air filters every few months - if you do that, better change your oil every few months as well, as it will be loaded with silicon.

Aegir

How fast is it now (YOUR car with YOU driving)? Have you upgraded tires yet? Suspension? Those two things will help more than bolt-on's.

Xpditor

Speak for yourself, Peter.

I had mine out tonight. It is astounding. It gets better and better as it puts miles on. I have about 800 now. Oh, and I know how to drive it better- how to hold first, turning off climate control and VSA, tire pressure, etc.

I was toying with a modded IS300 who was racing around but wanted no part of me. Apparently he's tried a TL before and wanted to avoid the humiliation. He was all hot-doggy with his 4" fart can until I caught him at a light. Then he just tippy-toed away, making a left at the next street.

XP

Swat Dude

Thanks for steering me to the final chapter. I've been away for awhile. Seeing your dyno makes me think the dyno's on the AEM website are complete snake oil. I'd like to see an independent test of the AEM but unless it really does produce the claimed gains, I think just about everyone is going to cough "BU::SH::" when they look at those numbers. You think the marketing department would have been a little smarter than that.

Kind of along the same subject, would you like to take a guess at what the exact same answer is from 99% of the people stopped for suspected DUI, when asked how much they've had to drink? "Two Beers". I think maybe two times out of hundreds of stops I performed did someone actually answer something different than "two beers". The funny thing about this is it's just good old human nature at work. Ninety-nine percent of the people think the same way in the same situation, "If I tell the cop 1 beer, he is going to know I'm full of crap, soooo I'll add one more to make it believable." I think if the people's goal at AEM was to make the dyno "believable", they shouldn't have fudged as much as they did.

Nitrotiger

Nice gain but remember i posted mine wit just a k+n filter and it pulled 233.9whp with no mods just the drop in so unless you want though howl of the cai i would go that way. and i still have not pulled out the silencer yet and i may not do it either. I think im going custom exhaust not the compyech crap with those ugly ass tips.

Aegir

Hard to directly compare because there are so many variables. I think it was quite a bit colder when you did yours, different wheel and tire package, etc. On your dyno, are you sure the gain wasn't due to cooldown while the filter was installed? My car made about 5hp less off the street compared to after a five minute cooldown. I just don't think the air filter is the weakest link in the stock induction system. I think that honor goes to the filter box and corrogated tube between the filter box and throttle body.

Nitrotiger

cool weather helps as does it most honda's but i did back it it up with some nice et' times. get it till the track bro, id you can launce it a 14.0 is in site for you

TheOne305

TOV(temple of Vtec) did a dyno on 04 tl 5at and they got 212 at the wheels forgot tq.that was bone stock no moddies.