ragincajun

fair point, i probably should have clarified what i meant about good gas mileage.

i meant something better than 17 mpg in the city driving very conservatively, because thats basically what i get with my g.

like you mentioned, if i am going to be getting 17 mpg, i better have a hell of a lot more power under the hood lol.

thanks for all the responses guys. it certainly seems like the tl with the 6spd compared to the auto is a different beast altogether. cant wait to try one out.

i cant really think of any other four door in this price range that is a better value of performance, reliability and style.

pimpin-tl

Yea but take in mind that is mixed. If I do solid streets, and short trips, I see 19mpg.

avs007

Depends on the terrain too.. I have an 80 mile commute to work, that is mostly freeway, but have two major hills in the commute...

I also own both a TL and a G coupe. I average 19mpg on the TL and 20mpg with the G. My only explanation for that is I redline the TL way more because I always seem to need to.

However when my wife drives (we carpool), she averages 21mpg on the TL.

jpoole

Interesting....all of my wheel hop has been associated with the "other" pedal

LaCostaRacer

Wow these MPG estimates are all over the map and none state the average MPH that would help clarify things a bunch.

According to fueleconomy.gov the 2008 G/Auto gets a mixed 19.5 MPG while the 2008 TL/S got 24.5. The big caveat with the TL/S is there was only one driver reporter and this person drove 70% highway. I just check the 07 TL/S and this has 4 entries and is 22.9 which sounds about right. I trust these estimates much more than a claim of 19MPG on the highway with no average speed given- that is way out of line. I get 28 going 75+ MPH and my tires cost me a MPG or 2 as well.

On a side note, one or two MPG is not going to break the bank so I would not stress too much on this one metric only. The insurance and maintenance costs are much bigger issues but yet there's not much talk on those- just MPG. Performance is the one metric the G really shines for the normal driver but for the professional a TL-S may be faster than a G at the track (Willowsprings) - see: http://revver.com/video/355310/usdm-...type-s-1-of-4/. I can't find the video for the other cars but remember the TL-S being a second quicker that the G. Can anyone find the other videos (I did a search to find this link already)

avs007

Speed by itself is irrelevant. It's "Engine Load" that is most important... This is why I mentioned HILLS. Granted, on flat terrain, speed and load will be proportional to each other, but once you aren't on flat terrain, that is no longer the case...

When on the hill on my main commute, I can feather the gas and keep the RPMs under 2100rpm, but the real-time fuel economy drops to < 10mpg. I happen to have an OBD-II scanner, and I happen to be tracking some parameters for other reasons, so I can verify the correlation of fuel economy to the "Engine Load" parameter, which jumps significantly when on said hill, regardless what my speed is.

And for the record, on my commute, I average about 70mph. When I drive the TL and G on flat terrain, I can easily average over 27mpg. In fact, if I watch the fuel economy over the duration of my commute to work, I watched it hover around 26mpg all the way until I got to the base of the hill. I kept my speed constant at around 70mph, and the real-time fuel economy dropped to 8mpg. By the time I got to work, it leveled off at 24mpg. However, repeated over several days, the average will eventually drop to 19/20mpg.

When I went on a 400 mile road trip, I've averaged 27mpg on both cars for the duration of the road trip, but there weren't any major hills on said road trip, compared to my commute to work.

This is why you should take ANY figures with a grain of salt... You can say I get sh!tty fuel economy, but unless you drive a commute with a 6% and 10% grade, with a 900ft elevation change each time, than you can't directly compare our numbers... In fact, my neighbor/coworker also has a TL, and he see's almost identicle numbers to me on our commute to work. (We both have flexible hours, so we don't really hit traffic on our commute either, and we've both discussed fuel economy in detail.)

My TL and G also happen to have the exact same model tires... Interestingly enough, the tires cost the TL a mpg, but the G gained a mpg compared to the tires my cars had on previously... TL went from Michelin Pilot MX to Bridgestone Potenza RE960, the G went from Michelin Pilot Sport to Bridgestone Potenza RE960

subinf

I mix it too, and I'm not getting close to that in SF. When I'm around town and freeway it is a little better but sole city driving is crappy.

LaCostaRacer

All I can say is what goes up has to come down- at least on Earth anyway. So granted you might get crappy mileage going UP the hill, but you also get great mileage going DOWN the hill too. The differences should offset mostly. I would estimate maybe a 2MPG max hit in your scenario do to inefficiencies in engines.

I can get 25 MPG easily going from sea level all the way up to 6000 feet driving aggressively with 50 city miles @ 19 MPG on the tank with stop and go traffic along the way. This would be a 150 mile drive from San Diego to Big Bear going through Riverside which often sucks for traffic with an MID average speed of 64 which means I went a lot faster because it's tough to keep an average speed that high in traffic and mountain roads.

I agree on the load concept because I'll see my mileage drop to 10 using the Nav hack's instant MPG feature, but the 10 MPG hit is only under load- my car isn't constantly under load. I suspect you have some high amounts of idle time because those figures still don't add up to me.

avs007

What kind of gas are you using? Cuz I use to be able to average a few mpg better, but about 2 years ago, they mandated 10% oxygenated gas all year round, which also helped to kill my fuel economy.

I should be more specific about my commute. It's 40 miles each way, with about 32 miles of it being freeway. I should also note, that I don't go back the way I came, for traffic reasons. And like I said, I tend to redline it, especially on the long stretch of street near my work, becuase the speed limit on that street is 55, but clowns like to drive 40 on it, so I always pass them. And fools in Oregon love to left lane camp, which is why I tend to gun it when I pass them.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to argue the TL fuel economy sucks or anything, I'm quite happy with it. I was actually just saying that don't expect a great fuel economy increase going from the G to the TL. My argument was that you can't compare numbers to each other, because everyone's driving style and road terrain is different. I was merely pointing out that I own both, and happen to get near identical fuel economy on both, and that I drive them both on the exact same commute with identical driving styles.

All the stuff about hills and such was anecdotal. You would think that going up/down hills should cancel each other out, I'm just showing what my observations have been. Over a long period of time, it always seems to settle at around 20mpg for me... 22 for my wife... Add another 1-2 mpg when we used to be able to get "good" gas, and not the 10% oxygenated crap... And another 0.5 to 1mpg when I had the stock tires on the TL. So to me, the numbers seem to add up fine

pimpin-tl

Well my G's never got over 23 mpg on the highway. And I live in Texas where everything is FLAT. The TL overall gets better gas mileage than the G.

pimpin-tl

AVS, you never mentioned what year, model G you had? Also is it a manual or 5AT?

Both my G's were 04/05 and both were 6mt with sport packages.

avs007

05' TL 5AT
04' G35 Coupe 5AT w/Sport

I prob squeeze 1mpg because when new I swapped out the stock 25 pound wheels on the G with much lighter weight forged wheels. I also upgraded the brakes, and used lighter weight rotors as well.

I've averaged 27mpg on the G on a road trip to Canada, so I know it's possible. Same with the TL... Tho after the 10% oxygenated gas was mandated, I don't think I've averaged better than 25-26 on any recent road trips.

On an unrelated side note, is San Antonio's freeways better than Austin's? Cuz when I was in Austin, the fools there loved to drive under the limit.

pimpin-tl

They are now. They weren't a few years ago. We have had construction on most our freeways for the past 5 years. Now most are pretty nice. Austin only has two major highways, I-35 and Highway 1 vs SA has 5. They now have a Toll Road that runs parallel with I-35 which helps, but it's pricey.

LaCostaRacer

I'm sure if I took my car out to a track I would get <19 MPG, but we're talking normal highway mileage- not racing cars aren't we? Anyway, the TL has a lot of nice features and is very refined. I think the G is too for the most part so I won't knock it here. The TL shines on features and interior and I think the exterior is a little sharper than the earlier G models. The new one looks pretty nice though and is much better than 4G TL. Go with what you like the most but definitely look at some of the softer costs of ownership: depreciation, maintenance, and possibly even insurance. I think most people would find the TL as having a lower cost-of-ownership while sacrificing possibly a little performance.

avs007

This one is mind boggling for me. I go through Allstate, and my TL is way more expensive to insure than my G. My G is barely 500 every 6 months, but my TL is over 800 every 6 months. On the itemization, comprehensive and theft is triple that of the G. Tho I heard from other's their TL is cheaper to insure, so who knows. Perhaps TL's just have high theft rates in the PacNW or something... My wife is listed as primary for the TL, and I'm listed as primary for the G... My old 2G TL was almost the same price to insure as our 3G TL.

LaCostaRacer

Don't know what to say on the insurance end. The 2004 G is worth less than a 2005 TL based on an Edmund valuation basis so that might explain some of the variance- the delta is almost 2K in valuation. In comparing my 2006 TL to a 2005 Honda Pilot (which should be much lower than a G for coverage), my TL is < 2x on both Comprehensive and Collision. The TL rocks on Bodily Injury compared to our Pilot being < .5x. So for my coverage for a one year newer TL costs me just $42 extra a year which seems reasonable. I pay $444 every 6 months for the TL and have a $500 comprehensive deductible and $1000 colllision ded. with high coverage: 250/500K bodily injury, 100k prop damage, and 100/300K uninsured motorists. Both my cars have the exact same limits so this is an apples to apples comparison here. I don't think I could insure a 2006 G35 of similar trim level any cheaper than what I have now.

smarty666

I never understood this either; I have high point insurance and my TL is almost twice the cost to insure then my Infiniti or Nissan, despite the fact both of them have a hell of a lot more torque and HP under the hood? go figure! I mean my God, my FX35 growls when you first turn it on almost like its waiting to get into a race and that is like $390 something every 6 months yet my TL is well over $700 every 6 months!

S PAW 1

[QUOTE=GeezerB;11829635] Panic braking scares me with all the wheel hop.
QUOTE]

If you are experiencing this, your ABS is not functioning as it should.
Maybe you are feeling the pedal pulsations of the ABS?

Take to dealer ASAP if you are having true wheel hop!

GeezerB

iTrader: (1)

[quote=S PAW 1;11844058]Do you think my 19" wheels are the problem? Never seen this discussed. The dealer will not do anything seeing I have aftermarket wheels larger than stock.

S PAW 1

^

Only if your entire wheel and tire package differed substantially in diameter from the stock wheel setup. I could see this confusing the computer which, in turn, controls the ABS.
The whole purpose of ABS is to prevent wheel lockup (wheel hop), especially on wet pavement. Every time you hop, your tires lose traction.
Sounds dangerous to me IMO

InWI

I have an '07 TL-S MT. It is a great car. MPG Mixed 21 to 23. Roadtrip 26-29. As always it depends how hard you push the "loud pedal". Been driving and still do drive MT Taurus SHO 's (winter driver). I've put over 500k miles on my 3 SHO's so I know a bit about FWD dynamics. The TL has a bit more torque steer, if I were the TL-S tranny ratio engineer I would have made 1st, 2nd and 3rd and a bit longer because it would have lessened the torque steer and made 3rd more fun than it already is. Bought mine used with 4k miles have 30k now, yes a few interior noises, dealer fixed the first major rattle. Did a 6k trip out west the summer of '08, a total pleasure. It's a car I love to drive and I have to say gets many compliments as to her look.

avs007

If your wheels are hopping, it has nothing to do with wheel size, i've seen guys rollin on 20's and be fine. Perhaps your abs sensors are damaged. abs controller doesn't care how big your wheels are, it only cares if it is or isn't rotating.

Plus the stock wheels are pretty heavy, so if your 19s are forged, they should be lighter. Mine are...

however, you don't see guys with winter tires on way heavier steel wheels complaining about wheel hop, so I douibt wheel weight has anything to do with it either...I think your sensors need to be checked.

S PAW 1

Well, yes and no. Your ABS (computer) DOES care about how fast or slow the wheels are rotating. As I stated, if the wheel and tire package is similar (or very close to) the stock diameter, then the wheel size doesn't matter.

If the wheel/tire package is 2" larger in diameter than stock, then the whole system is thrown out of sync.

As AVS said, lots of people upgrade to larger wheels with no problems. They usually take the time to match up the correct sizes.

avs007

That only really matters if your stock wheels are staggered, and even then, you only need to keep the front vs back ratio the same.

For the TL, if all 4 wheels are different rolling sizes from stock by the same %, the computer won't know the difference, because the abs works by comparing the rotational speed of each wheel to the other wheels. Just look at raised suvs rolling on big foot wheels, as their abs systems are unaffected.

But in the end, i'm willing to bet this persons 19s have the appropriate size tire to make the rolling size the same as stock, so it would be moot.... If anything, the only thing larger wheels could do to alter/cause wheel hop, could potentially be from altered suspension geometry, especially if the car is lowered.

GeezerB

iTrader: (1)

FYI : Stock suspension.