VQ35DE

I guess these showdowns were due to occur but, here's a link to the ClubGP website kill story on a 2k4 TL:

http://www.clubgp.com/newforum/tm.as...mode=1&smode=1

VTEC=happiness

I really don't care if that car beat the TL by 50 car lengths...it is an ugly POS, and I cannot believe that people actually take pride is driving it. Its one of those cars you rent and question who would actually pay hard earned money for such a domestic piece of crap

2k4TLkev

well the gtp is modded and the tl is stock and probably a 5AT but vtec said..its ugly as hell and its a domestic and will break down and not be very reliable compared to the tl.

6spdzoomzoom

2004 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP Competition Group
1 2 3

(continued)

C/D TEST RESULTS

ACCELERATION (Seconds)

Zero to 30 mph: 2.4
40 mph: 3.5
50 mph: 4.8
60 mph: 6.6
70 mph: 8.5
80 mph: 10.7
90 mph: 13.9
100 mph: 17.7
110 mph: 22.3
120 mph: 28.0
Street start, 5–60 mph: 6.8
Top-gear acceleration, 30–50 mph: 3.2
50–70 mph: 4.4
Standing 1/4-mile: 15.0 sec @ 93 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 138 mph

BRAKING

70–0 mph @ impending lockup: 181 ft
Fade: none light moderate heavy

HANDLING

Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.81 g
Understeer: minimal moderate excessive

FUEL ECONOMY
EPA city driving: 18 mpg
EPA highway driving: 27 mpg
C/D-observed: 17 mpg


2004 PONTIAC GRAND PRIX GTP COMPETITION GROUP

Vehicle type: front-engine, front-wheel-drive, 5-passenger, 4-door sedan

Price as tested: $30,370

Price and option breakdown: base Pontiac Grand Prix GTP Competition Group (includes $635 freight), $27,890; sunroof, $795; Premium Audio package (includes 6-CD changer and 9-speaker system), $695; leather, $665; XM satellite radio, $325

Major standard accessories: power steering, windows, seats, and locks; A/C; cruise control; tilting steering wheel; rear defroster

Sound system: Pontiac/Monsoon AM/FM-stereo/satellite radio/CD changer, 9 speakers

ENGINE

Type: supercharged V-6, iron block and heads
Bore x stroke: 3.80 x 3.40 in, 96.5 x 86.4mm
Displacement: 231 cu in, 3791cc
Compression ratio: 8.5:1
Engine-control system: GM with port fuel injection
Emissions controls: 3-way catalytic converter, feedback air-fuel-ratio control, EGR
Maximum boost pressure: 9.5 psi
Valve gear: pushrods, 2 valves per cylinder, hydraulic lifters
Power (SAE net): 260 bhp @ 5200 rpm
Torque (SAE net): 280 lb-ft @ 3600 rpm
Redline: 6000 rpm

DRIVETRAIN

Transmission: 4-speed automatic with lockup torque converter
Final-drive ratio: 3.29:1
Gear ... Ratio ... Mph/1000 rpm ... Max. test speed
I ... 2.92 ... 8.0 ... 48 mph (6000 rpm)
II ... 1.57 ... 14.9 ... 89 mph (6000 rpm)
III ... 1.00 ... 23.4 ... 138 mph (5900 rpm)
IV ... 0.71 ... 32.9 ... 138 mph (4200 rpm)


THIS GUY isnt even close.... my guess he is full of S%$T!! or the acura guy had no clue.

vtechbrain

Sounds like BS to me! The only way a GTP will smoke a TL is in its dreams or if the TL driver is sleeping at the wheel!!!!

JoganJani

I agree vtechbrain. I too think it's a BS story. I think the first part is true where he lost to TL to "stop for traffic" and then the remaining is his creative imagination with unrestrained fancy. :o

Norse396

I find his story hard to believe but what I find much worse was his weaving in and out of traffic like a moron to catch the TL.

Having fun is one thing, putting people in danger is another.:rocketwho

Bartman_RENAMED

Who really gives a rat's ass which car beats what on the road. Unless you are racing on a closed track, there are infinite number of variables that can cause a car to win or lose. Hopefully one of those is concern for other responsible dirvers. I like to open it up a little every now and then, but these guys that race on the streets are one split second away from either ending up in jail or the cemetary. Just my $.02

rets

Who is that guy racing with that GTP in NJ Tpke? Please give yourself up, and repeat the story.

bradjs

I also like how he referred to it as the "New Jersey Parkway"... which of course its the garden state parkway. (the road 90% of my TL miles get logged)

6spdzoomzoom

Was it you?


Just kidding

VTGuy2006

Of course I'm here to speak for the Club Grand Prix side of things. I just think its unfair to misjudge such a car. I really like TL's (especially previous generation 3.2 TL Type S and the new TL's). 2004 Comp G's have several mods available and obviously the car you were racing was not stock. Other wise the TL probably would have won or the race would have been very close. If you guys don't like them then thats fine its your opinion. Just don't judge the individual himself for coming up with BS. I hope no one takes this the wrong way for I'm not here to bash anyone in anyway or to bad mouth any Acura...cuz I'm actually a huge Acura fan. And yeah they prolly will outlast the Grand Prix's.

vtechbrain

:tflamer:

adam209

i can see a gtp beating a TL. they have some mods that make that pos fast.

bartman, why the hate for street racing?

VTEC=happiness

Go back to the Grand Prix site and rant there....no one wants to hear about that POS

TL_6SPD

Guys that GTP is modded. And modded GTPs can run 13s or even 12s EASY! Just a pulley swap which he has. So I can easily believe he beat the TL.

Tajam

a 04 TL?


or the guy he was racing with was an idiot. or was loaded with people.

rets

Very true...

Power (SAE net): 260 bhp @ 5200 rpm
Torque (SAE net): 280 lb-ft @ 3600 rpm
Redline: 6000 rpm

If mods have been done, I can see how powerful it may be.

emendez

Are you serious?

Racing on a track is fine because it's a controlled environment. Everyone on the track is 100% aware of why they are there and will not be surprised to see another car come flying by their car at triple digit speeds. That's why they are there. There is always safety personnel involved too to make sure that safety is paramount.

Racing on the street endangers every person out there who is doing nothing more than driving home from work or bringing the kids home from a soccer game. These people just want to make it home without having some single-digit-IQ knuckledragger cut them off as they try to demonstrate their pHaT sKiLLz yo!

Bartman_RENAMED

I just wish that there were more places that people who wanted to race could do it safely. There are a lot of deaths and severe injuries in my area every year caused by street racing and I think it is a shame. You may think you are in control, but if someone gets in your way they are dead and you are Bubba's boyfriend in the slammer.

silveraccord

Am I reading this wrong, he doesn't even say it was an 04. I don't think he has any idea what he was doing, he might have raced an 03 tlS. Again, who knows, maybe the guy in the other car was changing the XM channel.

Either way, drove the old GTP, drove the new GTP -- great handling, great breaking, not as good accell., friggin ABUSIVE ride, had a headache after 5 minutes.

Take the TL anyday, especially when the 04 GTP is the same price just about as the TL.

boobot

Please get your facts straight before bashing other cars.

It's not a 2004. It's a 2001. He only has a $75 pulley and a $50 Cai.

.The MSRP on a TL is $32,650 the GP with COMPG group is $28,500 before the $2000+ incentives

Please don't put the TL on too high of a horse.
There nice and I'm trying to get my wife to trade her 03max in for one but when it comes to aftermarket, and there is a lot of aftermarket now, the GP can easily put on an extra 50-100hp.

As for 1/4 mile track "true racing" here's just a small list...

126 2002 silver 2 door gtp 13.41@103.1
127 2000 Black 2 door GTX 13.416@101.32
128 1998 Black 2 door GTP - 13.422 @ 101.58 13.422@101.58
129 1998 Black 2 door GTP 13.422@101.58
130 1998 Black 2 door GTP 13.424 @104.28 13.424@104.28
131 1998 Red 4 door GTP 13.426@102.38
132 1997 Bright Red 2 door GTP 13.426@103.44
133 1998 Blue 2 door GTP PACE CAR 13.43@104
134 1999 Silvermist 2 door GTP 13.44@102.1
135 1999 red 2 door GTP 13.44@102.59
136 1998 Red 2 door Trans Am 13.45@106
137 1999 White 4 door GTP 13.45@102.6
138 1998 Red 2 door GTP 13.454@102.58
139 1999 Black 2 door GTP 13.456@101.5


By the way the numbers on the left mean that this is the 126th-139th fastest GP. Imagine your TL vs #50

TheNip73

While the GTP may have won the race, the real winners are the TL owners who have a better vechicle overall. Better reliability, better looks (subjective), better warranty, better materials, better resale. I will give the GTP mad ups for the cost to performance ratio, but your gonna get killed on the residual value when you go to sell it.

TheNip

Xzinkz

No Flames please, but i really think that the TL had the upper hand. Those cars can not match against an 04 or any TL (unless modded). I'm not saying this because i am in favor of Import over Domestic companys. I too own a domestic 2000 Dodge Durango R/T. And may be they weren't really racing and he was just trying to make up storys because he was lonely and needed some attention.

boobot

True, I definitely can't argue on risidual value.


And yes the TL does have the upper hand against the GP. The reason I gave up my Maxima (still have the wifes) is because of the aftermarket for the GP.

Yes, no flames is always good. People can learn a lot from cross-forum posts as long as the head stays straight!!!

As far as this thread goes it was about a race for speed, not for reliability/resale so that's why I chimed in. Plus people started bashing a perfectly good car and were ignorant of the facts. I would have done the same on the GP site if someone was posting that the TL had inferior quality to the GP

adam209

what the fu(k? so because people race on the streets that makes them stupid? were you ever a kid once?

Xzinkz

Cars, Cars, and Cars. I like them all , as long as it has a steering wheel and tires i'll drive it. I like all kinds of cars. I don't think people should lie about a cars specification to make they're car look better or bash another car for they're own enjoyment. thats not cool at all.

Teh Jatt

Maybe that foo wanted to increase his post counts... like I'm doing right now

vandy786

Some of you guys are true idiots. Ease up on the GTP. If your head wasn't so far up your snobby a$$, you might have realized the potential of a GTP. Those things will DUST (several car lengths) any TL/TLS 0-60 and in the 1/4 mile with less than $1000 in mods. True, some may call them ugly and even their owners have posted on this very site how the interior and dependability totally sucks. Also true that I would never buy one of them (previous gen or the one that just came out) but some of you guys need to acknowledge the facts. I have yet to come across a modded GTP (or if it was modded I didn't know or I couldn't tell) so I have never been humbled by one on the streets before. But read around and you'll see what I'm talking about. I'm sick of this attitude by some of the 3rd gen owners talking all this smack and putting down anything besides the TL/TLS. There's a reason the GTP costs less but it is by no means a POS. I like overall packages so I bought the TL and if I were in the market today I would probably buy a 2004 TL. But if performance and a sleeper look are the priority, who cares how dependable or nice the interior is? Also, I like to keep cars long-term but not everyone does. I'd say the GTP would be a better fit for them.

TheNip73

Who cares about potential? Compare an grapefruit to a grapefruit, not a grapefruit with sugar on it. Are you going to go to the BMW 5 series forum next and stick up for the TL? Fact of the matter is the TL is a better car than a Grand Prix. A BMW 5 series is better than a TL. It doesn't, however, mean the TL is the right car for all people. There is a million comparisons you could make like this and a million situations that could justify one car being or not being the right car for you. Don't take offense. BTW, this is a TL forum. Don't you expect there to be some preference for the TL? And last, but not least, like what you want to like. Who cares what other people think. You got a bit worked up by calling some of us snobby. In the end all it did was make you look like the snob in my opinion.

Woodstock

Yes, if you race on the streets, you are, in fact, stupid. Not to mention a "me first" danger to others. Especially if you race on the streets while weaving in and out of traffic as the a$$hole in the GTP/TL race seemed to be doing. I don't give a damn as to whether street racers kill themselves, but they put others' at risk.

I like to shoot handguns, but I don't go out on the street and have target shooting compititions with other shooters, and hope that I don't hit anyone.

Yes, I was a kid once, but I didn't race on the streets. I wasn't that stupid.

ViperLuke

Good point. There's no doubt a GTP with a pulley can beat a stock TL. But a modded Geo Metro could also beat a TL. OK. Maybe that's a stretch.

boobot

You are correct, street racing is extremely dangerous and there are way too many lives put in danger. But you have to get on both of their cases here. "i put a about 1/2 to 1 car on him up into 90 100, when i had to stop for trafic, he did the the fly by". Both of them were doing 90-100mph in traffic. Not good

blufox

lets try putting a supercharger to the TL and then race the GTP ,then its fair

Teh Jatt

True

svtmike

That doesn't make any sense. Stock to stock is a fair comparison.

Mike

vandy786

Your post is a perfect example of the snobbery I was talking about. Thanks for helping me prove my point. So let me get this straight. You think you can diss GTPs because you think the TL clearly owns it? And you didn't just stop there. You also said that BMW owners have the right to call the TL a POS because it's simply better? You sound like a TL owner who bought the TL because he / she couldn't afford the 5 series, not because he / she realized that you bought something that compares to the 5 series but costs less than a comparably loaded 3 series. Your post is outrageous because you figure that just because a car costs more gives you the right to bash something less expensive. You might say a GTP or an SRT4 is a POS but if that's exactly what someone needs, it is anything but that. I bet you're one of those guys that would drive an Infiniti G20 just so you can say I drive an Infiniti. You'd say, oh hell, who cares if I get torn up by ricer Civics, I still drive an Infiniti.

vandy786

BTW,
If I had to choose a replacement car right now, I would buy a 2004 TL. I have nothing against the TL, just something against snobs. I hope the 2004 TL drivers aren't catching the BMW snobbery syndrome, you know, where they think they own the road, they cut you off for no reason, and they don't use their signals because it's an option and not a standard feature

TheNip73

I'm not going to continue this arguement. But, for the record, BMW reliability is nothing compared to Acura's that is why I chose it over a 3 series (you are correct, I cannot afford the 5 series). Also, I never said the Grand Prix, TL, or any other car was a POS. My only comment revolved around residual values of the Grand Prix. I also said there are many factors that may or may not make a car right for you. To some people certain performance aspects are everything. To some quality is everything. There are also people who value both. However, at the end of the day the car with the best compromise of quality and performance will win. Why you ask? Numerically weight the categories the same (as opposed to skewed toward performance or quality) and you will get the highest value from the vechicle with the best set of compromise .

VTGuy2006

Awww, would you like a spoon so you can eat my ass? Face it, a car with a ****ty interior and pushrod technology walked you're precious TL with variable valve timing etc etc. GTP's are easily capable of low 13's high 12's. Its all in the supercharger. If you don't believe me, I'm sure they are modded GTP's go out and find one and it will own you. I suggest you start throwing some more money in your TL unless you're perfectly content with the performance of your own car. Motor Trend claims your car can run the quarter in 14.44 @ 98.7 mph. GTP Comp G can do it in 14.97 @ 92.76. Get off your high horse VTEC=happiness, you do NOT drive the fastest nicest car in the world. I figured people who'd buy new Acura's would not have the mind set of an ignorant 16 year old anti-domestic idiot.