gainful

because of the quality issues and FWD platform. The same thing is happening for the entire Honda line.


Today an interesting thing is, a majority of the hard core Anti-Honda people used to be Honda fans. They have seen how Honda grows, and they miss the hay-days when honda excel in quality and driving fun. But now they hate to see honda is slacking around.

In the recent years, as Toyota continues to refine its product, and Nissan has made major leap forward improving their car's handling and interor, both of them came up with continuously variable valve timing control for the engines. But Honda is just sleeping on its has-been-glorious VTEC SOHC and doing nothing. It only make small modifications on their engine , like intake, exhaust, piston coating, to boost a couple hp. Nothing major, and the current strategy is to pack all kinds of "technology" in the upscale car and advertise the car as "bang for the buck".

For the fiscal year 03-04, Toyota sales gained a growth of 11%, which is quite impressive for such a big company, Nissan did 24% by introducing many popular models. What about Honda? 1.6%!!!

Many complaints about current Civic, Accord's quality. and for the place where TL is buit, Marysville factory being rated quality #1 among all Honda plants, it is very reasonable, because the whole Honda quality is at a plummet!

crazymjb

I dont like Hondas, I like Acuras. Yes they use honda parts, but they are an affordable luxery car. When I am in a honda it just doesnt feel right for me, I know they are good cars, but I just dont find them comfortable. Anyway, the Acura TL was on an ad on tv for the best selling something luxery car in the USA.

bklynpanman

Gainful.. just because you can't afford a TL doesn't mean you have to get your panties in a bunch..

rets

We will know better once Honda/Acura release their March sale records. In March 2004, Acura sold 7,310 3GTLs, I don't expect we will see the better number this month, IMHO. https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110618


Hopefully this would be a wake-up call to Honda/Acura.

PoochaKannInc

And your point is what exactly? You have numerous threads asking which car to buy? Is the TL worth it? Should I get the M? etc. etc.

I suggest you stop looking at Hondas & Acuras because they have no quality. Please get a Lexus or an Infiniti. Or the Ultimate Driving Machine.

Sadly, I agree with some of your sentiments, but I question the motive as you keep harping on this "Honda is horrible" point. If you don't want one, don't get one.

aw1

did you know that toyota sales numbers include cars they sell to rental companies like hertz, avis, enterprise? why do you think their numbers are so high? also, tell me another car company that produces a I4 engine that has 200hp? heard the new civic si has over that number. these HP numbers are greater than most car companies V6 power plants. dont like the product, dont buy it, dont biatch about it on this Acura forum.

gainful

Poocha,
I had an 03 and absolutely love it, although its paint wasn't perfect from factory. But 05 is starting become terrible.

My point is, we don't have to love the TL only because we own it. ( I have seen a lot of vets who have being justifying the war only because they were in it, so it has to be right) On this forum, We have been appreciating its beauty for the past years, and now a injection of discussion about problems will be healthy. If we as a group stop buying TL, is that going to be a big enough influence that wakes Honda up?

scrb09

WTF, I thought that is exactly why you should LOVE it, dude I dont think you make sense....

NO, Once again MAKES NO SENSE...we are probably a tiny fraction of the people who are out there owning HONDAS and ACURAS and there are probaly only a FRACTION of us who would think about boycotting Honda's.....

Also I dont think they are losing market or are bad cars and all the other bogus...last time I checked TL and ACCORD were the best selling cars in their class and if you go to the ACURA site RL was ranked the the 10 Best by Car and Driver...so...

gainful

man..........why do you trust so much those magazines?........they are so biased.

One example, they rated Hyundai sonata very high in reliability, but Kia Optima very poor. The fact is, their engine, chasis, door, interior parts are from the same factory!

Truth only comes from your own observations

rets

.

scrb09

Where did you get the Above Information FROM ? Ever thought that this could be BIASED ?

acuraTL44

Those magazines happen to tell the truth. They buy cars, test them over periods of time, and see how many problems they have. They also look for if the price was worth what you got.

Just because there from the same factory doesn't mean that they are the same quality; things like the type of materials they use and how they are put together, are a large part in creating this difference.

Personally I think the TL is a 25k car with another 10k of technology (Bluetooth, MID, ELS, Voice Recognition Navi-(optional), etc

gainful

lets see:
Bluetooth, $200
MID, $10
ELS, $1000
Voice Recognition $500
Navi $2000

= $3710,

where is the rest $6290?

acuraTL44

Voice recognition is expensive. Did you mind to look at the ECT. Its not just there to look pretty.

dual climate control, HID, heated seats, ETC

scrb09

MID, 10 $ why dont you try to make a chip for the MID and see how much it would cost....

chill_dog

Let's think about this a minute...what car can you get for $33k (or $36K with navi) that has everything the TL has, plus looks awesome, and has almost 300 hp? Not the G35, not the new IS300 (which ripped off the TL's body), and definitely not the new 330.

Perziankabob

voice recognition is 1400$ when my buddy was looking at a benz. that's on top of the $2000 navigation that isn't even touchscreen.

the TL comes with so many technology options, it's very much like buying a $25k car and upgrading the shit out of it. that's how the maxima is. which is gay.

Brewmaster

Per who?? I'm sorry, but a couple of rattles doesn't make it terrible ... however for someone who can't say anything positive without also pointing out the negative I guess we could only expect this type of remark .. nothing meaningful .. just negativity.

If you don't love the TL don't buy it ... your arguments make no sense ...

Not even close, nor would everyone (or even a meaningful sample) of the people on this forum consider boycotting Acura .. and why would we ?? Because of your insight and meaningful debate?? So far I haven't even seen a logical argument from you .. certainly nothing that would alter my opinion of this (or any other) car.

Like PoochaKannInc said ... go buy something else that you can be happy with but please stop trying to tell us what we should or should not do.

aw1

holy crap, just buy whatever you want.. kia, hyundai, yugo, bmx, whatever... and get off of this forum... buy whatever makes you happy...

acuraTL44

also to mention a sunroof, almost 300hp (mentioned above), and for those with automatic, you don't have to pay an extra 1,500 to 2,000 bucks. For auto in a C-class you would have to pay over 1,500 bucks.

The TL is a great car, good looks etc, but take away all the fun stuff and the TL is a regular 25k car, with 25k quality.

aw1

i could live with the minor rattles (dont have any yet) on my TL. unlike my cousins 5 series, it went back to the dealer several times for electrical problems and ac/heating problems.

crazymjb

About the I4 with 200 HP, I have seen it beaten out. My friends father has a 1993 saab 9000 aero, its puts out 228 HP and 258 torque from an inline 4. Something like 2.3-2.4 liters. I probably wouldnt be caught dead in a honda, toyota, or nissan, but I would get an Acura, Lexus, or Infiniti. Either way, they are all reliable cars. I dont really care how many people are buying them, if they are good cars, then go ahead and get one.

chill_dog

But all of the goodies that turn the $25k into the $33k car are why we bought it. We could've bought a $25k Chevy or Ford, but one a cold morning, heated leather seats are pretty nice...

EOBrien

Are you refering to the same magazines that happen to sell car of the year to the highest advertising bidder?

kabota

Seirously guys come on!!!!!!!!!!!! My first car was a 1991 Cutlass Surpreme and i loved it. My second car a 99 tl is even better. The really only bad thing about the tl is the tranny prob but it is not that big of a deal. If anybody wants to sell their piece of ''crap'' tl's i buy them for a couple thousand since that is all they are worth.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

aw1

was this car NA? or turbo'd?

acuraTL44

Yes, those features are what makes a TL a TL. It's just the rattles and vibration problems that bring it down.

Even with these few issues the Tl is still a great car!

acuraTL44

Where did you get that from?

I'm talking about "Consumer Reports", "Car and Driver", "Road and Track", etc
Plus, online sites such as Edmunds.com

These magazines help many people in searching for a new car.

gainful

i agree that those are great sources that help people searching cars, in that sense they are very considerate for the consumers. But when it comes to the "best" list, they start to think about sth for themselves.

05TLTony

In the recent years, as Toyota continues to refine its product, and Nissan has made major leap forward improving their car's handling and interor, both of them came up with continuously variable valve timing control for the engines.

Who do you think came up with variable valve first?

But Many complaints about current Civic, Accord's quality. and for the place where TL is buit, Marysville factory being rated quality #1 among all Honda plants, it is very reasonable, because the whole Honda quality is at a plummet![/QUOTE]

Why because you think so? Doesn't seem like your opinion really matters from what I've seen on this post.

I've had my TL for over 4 months now and have no complaints regarding quality. Both rattle issues have been solved.

I've owned an ES300 in the past, and the "refined" product you speak of had rattles and sqeeky breaks. Oh, don't forget to hit the toyota and nissan forum with your negativity as well while you're at it! If you have so many problems with Honda/ Acura, don't buy it. Nuf said!

Legend2TL

It's more to do with Honda's product range and market segment (lack of trucks and SUV's) than FWD or recent quality issues. Interesting article on Honda's sales woes.

http://autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=101969

I agree that Honda has had some quality issues but their design and development groups are putting out class-leading designs these days. Like all so many auto makers Honda/Acura went through a bad design and devlopment period in the mid-90's but like many automakers needed to get into a crisis before reinventing themselves.

EOBrien

Yes, they do help people searching for a new car. However, MotorTrend, C&D and R&T are notorious for selling the Car of the Year award. The final "10 best" lists are the starting point for a lot of economic negotiations. Basically, you only get the Car of the Year Award if you agree to buy a lot of advertising in their mag, plus agree to put the little "Motor Trend car of the year" in your TV commercials.

Consumer Reports is far more reputable.

Aegir

Sounds like your mind is made up. Goodbye!

mickey3c

got to agree honda/acura is slipping...

People are too concertrated in magazine racing then they are in the quality .. if you want to hang on to a car for a number years I would not be getting an acura product...

scrb09

BULL SHIT... Are you trying to say that if KIA sweeped in to be the highest bidder in the Luxury class, A respected automobile magazine will make it the car of the year ?

mrjoshua

It's rather hard to assess the driveability of an automobile when you are too young to drive one. Sitting on your mother's lap while holding the steering wheel on her Accord doesn't count.

Radcliffe1

Your statement that we as a group stop buying the TL leaves me speechless.
Consider that this is a TL forum and that we already have bought the TL...that's why we are here....duh.
I for one am very pleased with the car.

Ron A

Enough of the vitriolic prose, petty bickering, personal attacks, etc.

I think we have said all we need to say and read all we need to read, so further discussion would not be meaningful.