VisualEchos

iTrader: (1)

Hey guys, I just have a quick question you all may be able to help me with. We bought our TL new in 2007. It's a base. It has been treated with respect, and adult driven from day 1. Most of its life has been garage kept. It now has 79,000 miles on the clock, and still looks nearly brand new.

Here's the problem...

- lower control arm bushings bad @ 67,000 miles
- oil leak (timing belt tensioner) @ 69,000 miles
- power steering pump replacement @ 69,000 miles
- a/c compressor going out @ 78,000 miles
- alternator replaced @ 79,000 miles

This is all within 12,000 miles.

Does this seem excessive to you all, or is this par for the course with a $37,000 luxury car? I honestly feel that if I had purchased an IS300 I would not be having these issues.

I have been in contact with the service manager at the dealership where we purchased the car, and I'm currently compiling information for him, and all previous Acura/Honda vehicles we have owned (brand loyalty) to see if I can get something done about the LCA and A/C compressor. If not, I'm moving to Lexus.

So, your thoughts, are these issues reasonable for this type of car, with this miles?

Vlad_Type_S

iTrader: (3)

Were these dealer-recommended repairs? Or do you maintain and inspect the vehicle yourself?

If they are dealer repairs, have you ever asked them to show you the problem areas or problem parts prior to performing the repair(s)?

Also, the compliance bushings aren't an uncommon issue. And the PS pump replacement may have not been necessary - many members have just had theirs rebuilt (or rebuilt themselves).

erdoc48

All I can say is at 106+K miles, mine (06) has been incredibly reliable and has had none of what you described. Some of what you describe does seem a bit excessive for a Honda product.

gatrhumpy

iTrader: (1)

I have 11 years worth of experience in reliability engineering.

Long story short - your car is basically the enigma or outlier of the reliability calculation. People define reliability in different ways.

Parts on cars go bad. You would not believe the amount of factors that go into determining the reliability of a part. The reliability a lot of times is determined by the manufacturer in a controlled environment under strict conditions, and then (maybe) a factor will be applied to it to lessen it by some amount due to "real world applications."

I'm not going to bore people with the ins and outs of reliability calculations, but suffice to say that for every case that's similar to yours, there will be several others with parts that rarely go bad in the same amount of mileage, same environment, same driving techniques, etc.

My best advice is to save a certain percentage of your income for car parts going bad.

thoiboi

Some of the things you listed are known issues with this gen's TL

namely LCA and power steering pump.

the rest I attribute to just time. (it's 8 years old after all)

Here's a tip though OP: Lexus have problems of their own. ALL cars will run into issues. Agree with gatrhumpy that part of owning a car = maintenance. It just comes with the territory.

VisualEchos

iTrader: (1)

Thank you guys for the responses.

At the core of my issue is the oil leak I developed at 69,000 miles. Honda is the world's largest engine manufacturer, and I honestly don't believe under any circumstances I should have had an oil leak at this mileage. Adding fire to that flame is the fact that my mother bought a Ford Taurus used with 40K on the clock (against my better judgement), and has over 100K on it right now...with the original ps pump, a/c compressor, and narry an oil leak. That more than stings.

VisualEchos

iTrader: (1)

If I have an issue I take the car to my local Honda dealer. I worked there for a number of years, and trust their judgement. And given the similarities, I feel like they are shooting me straight with the repairs needed.

I understand if the PS pump didn't need replacement, but if it needed work it's the same thing in my mind.

GKinColo08TL

OP...stuff happens with cars. They are mechanical. Vehicle reliability ratings are based on more than one example. There will be cars with zero issues other than normal maintenance items and there will be cars with more than their share of issues. Your oil leak is quite unusual. A question, where was it leaking? was it a seal or gasket? because those fail.

I wonder, you have a 9 year old Lotus, those are not known for their reliability.

None of us know your driving habits, or how well you maintain your car, but to answer your question, your problems are not indicative of the typical Acura/Honda reliability.

Vlad_Type_S

iTrader: (3)

A failing pump and a failing o-ring shouldn't be regarded as the same type of failure, in my opinion.

gatr pretty much nailed it though. Your situation is atypical. My car just broke through 96k (2008) and the only problem I've had so far is a rear main seal leak. I've read a number of articles like this one: Acura TL - In Photos: 10 Most-Reliable Used Cars - Forbes

And the 3G TL is consistently reviewed to be one of the most reliable cars in its class. You never know what will happen with a car, it's all risk based. But statistically speaking, the 3G TL is a very safe bet.

VisualEchos

iTrader: (1)

They just said timing belt tensioner.

You must be thinking of the older Lotus cars. My Lotus is dead reliable; Toyota engine and transmission.

I'm an adult, and use this car as my cruiser, and daily driver. I bought it to keep it forever, and have treated it with respect from day 1. In my opinion, there is very little that needs to be maintained in 80K, but I've done everything except the timing service, which I feel is unnecessary from everything I've read.

She has been garage kept except for the last 2 years.

Summer. by VisualEchos, on Flickr

VisualEchos

iTrader: (1)

So I guess you guys are saying that I should pay for these repairs because I'm a statistic? A bad one, unfortunately, but still a statistic. $1300 for the A/C compressor?

I'm sorry guys, but I'll sell the car and get a Lexus before I do that. IMO it's completely unreasonable, especially given the other issues, and how the car has been treated.

Maybe I got a car made on Friday?

thoiboi

Then I guess it's time to say goodbye. Not sure what to tell you OP..

Maybe lease the next car so you don't have to worry about these types of things.

Best of luck selling the car and on whatever you get next.

FamilyGuy

Look into used or refurbished parts and independent mechanic to save $$

GKinColo08TL

That's pretty interesting...I don't know for sure but the TB tensioner is mounted externally to the block. Might have been the crank main seal?

I was thinking about all British cars forever...none have ever been known for their solid reliability.

I didn't mean to offend you. That being said, you saying the timing belt service recommended at 7 years/105K is unnecessary doesn't make sense to me. Since your car is now 8 years old.

gatrhumpy

iTrader: (1)

Seems like you already have your mind made up.

What about shopping around for an AC compressor? I understand that you go to the dealer, but there are certainly cheaper prices to be had.

GKinColo08TL

What Gatr said...1300 to change the A/C compressor seems like a lot, but I've done that repair on an old Honda Civic...really not difficult, rebuilt compressor was about 200, I did the labor and then had the system charged. That begs another question, did your dealer service the A/C regularly because if you don't change/add oil to it the seals will fail.

Good luck to you, but if you get an 8 year old Lexus with 79K on the clock, it will most likely have some issues too.

VisualEchos

iTrader: (1)

We don't drive a lot of miles, so I was hoping to keep the car, pay it off, and still be able to have it for years afterward without a payment.

Not sure, that's just what they told me. They thought it was something else, but ultimately found it to be the tensioner.

Again, not this car. This car is basically a Lotus suspension, which you will never hear about issues with, attached to a Toyota drivetrain. I might have an issue or two with the body from time to time, but nothing major.

Yes, the car is 8 years old, but all my research suggests that the timing service can go much, much longer than the dealer recommendation, and that it's a waste to do it so early. I won't argue the point though.

VisualEchos

iTrader: (1)

I don't have my mind made up, Acura can buy my compressor, or I can fix it cheaply (correctly though), and trade the car for a Lexus.

0utl

I would not buy a new compressor. Mine was making a growl noise and I just rebuilt it. For pulley, bearing, and stator was around $170. Not sure what your compressor is doing but here's a link to my thread of what my problem was;
https://acurazine.com/forums/problems-fixes-114/faint-grind-noise-engine-895322/#post14650012

BTW, i like your choice of wheels.

thegipper

I have both. My TL (04) and a newer Toyota Camry SE V6 (2011) and granted the camry has less miles and is much newer, the quality of the Toyota is unmatched. The TL has a much nicer fit and finish but when it comes down to reliability, Toyota's are just more reliable, hands down. I know that is blasphemy on this site. While your TL problems seem to be the exception and not the rule, they are still very reliable and nice cars. I have had a few issues with my TL, none of them have been major (knock on wood) but it definitely has had its share of problems. And unfortunately, when there is a problem, plan on spending some coin because parts for these cars are not cheap.

PS. If you think your TL is "unreliable", please own a Pontiac or a Ford for a while. Shit even the high end German cars are mostly garbage these days and are even more expensive to fix.

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

everything seems reasonable(and easy fixes if you can DIY) on your list except the alternator and AC compressor. My 07 TL-S is on the original alternator and AC for the last 158k miles...never missed a beat. If it went out tomorrow I wouldn't think any less of my car because of the miles I've gotten out of them. I'd simply replace it myself and be on my way. your car may be many miles less, but time-wise it's the same age.

nfnsquared

Known issue, easy DIY.


There's no way a TB tensioner is causing an oil leak. TB tensioners are known to go bad and leak themselves. Is this what the dealership meant? If so, did they actually pull the lower TB cover to look? I doubt it.

Note: If the tensioner is indeed bad, then you need to get it replaced because it could result in a broken, shredded TB and a blown engine if it fails totally.


Did Acura perform the PS safety recall on your car?

Exactly why did they say the pump needed to be replaced?

Why do they say it's "going out"? What tests did they run, if any?

Why? Post the service write-up from the dealer if you still have it.

Vlad_Type_S

iTrader: (3)

^all of these things.

I'm very suspicious of the dealer that's servicing your vehicle.

GKinColo08TL

I am too OP...I think your dealer needs some service work, and no disrepect, they've found a trusting soul in you.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

It's a Honda dealership that the OP used to work at...

GKinColo08TL

I know gg...I think they're screwing him...TB tensioner causing an oil leak? The tensioner might be shot but it would not cause an over all oil leak.

VisualEchos

iTrader: (1)

First, thank you all for your input, it is much appreciated! Let me take these in order.

My noise is different from yours. The Honda dealer told me that it was likely the compressor going out ($1,160.25 to replace), $1,231.15 with clutch and coil. I have a video that I took with my phone, I'll see if I can upload it to YouTube later. At any rate, looking at it, I don't think it's a job I want to do myself, unless it's easier than the alternator was.

And Lexus is even rated higher.

I'll live out my days without ever having owned an American, or German car as a reliable mode of transportation. A fun car? Sure. But not reliable transportation.

Could be, but does that mean it should be an issue? I mean, they can't make it any better than they did? Hard for me to believe honestly.

The leak was originally diagnosed as leaking crank shaft main bolts. They re-sealed these...twice, then had to dig deeper to find the leak. In the end it was found to be the timing belt tensioner, which they replaced at their cost since it was a mis-diagnosed.

No, I never got any info about this at all.

I took it in with a nose, they said it was obvious, and had seen it before.

Couldn't tell you.

I'm sure life would be easier if I weren't 110 miles from the dealer, but it's the choice I made because I trust my local dealer to be able to diagnose, and fix any problems that I can't fix myself.

YungMoola15

I believe all the 3rd gen TL have a recall for hydraulic power steering assist hose or something.

I would be cautious about the dealership you go to OP.
Also, I hope you know you could have gotten those repairs for more than half off at a local mechanic shop.

How much do you want for the TL? Knowing all the problems I hope you are reducing the price substantially?

VisualEchos

iTrader: (1)

Thanks, but I think I've explained that the dealership I go to is a good one.

I understand that, but I allow very few people to touch my car, and beyond that, repairs done by Honda is the next best thing to repairs done by Acura IMO, and in most buyer's minds as well.

When I sell the car I'll get top dollar for it, hell, everything will have been replaced .

Elemental II Desktop by VisualEchos, on Flickr

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

I personally wouldn't do any repairs and just trade it in for the Lexus you've been talking about. In the end, you'll end up spending more on repairs than what you'll get on a trade in excellent condition.

Wallyjee101

^ +1

Even taking it to a local shop to get their opinion on what you mentioned may make a difference...

VisualEchos

iTrader: (1)

That's not the type of person I am. I sold cars for 4 years, there is no way I'd trade the car, I'll sell it outright, free of any problems, and full documented history. I'll get top dollar within 2 weeks. It's obvious the car has been taken care of.

The biggest problem is finding a new car I like, the new IS is just impossibly ugly.

thoiboi

So the type of person you are is just to see that a company has "WRONGED" you by having a "UNRELIABLE" car. So you'll fix the car (i.e. spend money on it anyway) and just sell it. What does that accomplish? Are you sticking it to Acura? "Oh, they sold me an 'unreliable car' I'm going to fix it (read: pay Acura money anyway) and then sell it! "That'll show them"

I don't know if it's a matter of principle or ego.. but just fix the damn thing and drive it to the ground. Unless you wanted a reason to get a new car, I don't really seewhy you're complaining if the end goal was to fix it anyway.

The2007TL

OP. I would like to buy your car if you are not too far away. (Though based on the green grass in your picture, we are not close)

VisualEchos

iTrader: (1)

Hold on there trigger. I purchased this car hoping that it would be problem-free for many years after it was paid off. If it's not going to suit me to that end, I'll just try another car. I'm well aware that many Acura TL's haven't had these issues in this mileage, which doesn't help me any. I'm not here bitching trying to save money, this isn't a Civic forum, I'm asking honest questions about other members' reliability experience.

Thanks, but the car isn't for sale yet, I have to find something I like, that I also think will be more reliable as it ages. I'm pretty certain, looking at the numbers, it'll be a Lexus.

vietxquangstah

iTrader: (7)

$1,100 to replace the AC compressor?

My girlfriends mom has a 06 Accord V6. AC compressor gave out. Hooked up gauges to diagnose it and turns out the compressor wasn't working at all.

Bought a 100% brand new (not refurbished, not remanufactured, not rebuilt) DENSO A/C compressor w/ clutch, oil & o-rings. Denso is the OEM supplier that Honda/Acura uses for the AC Compressor (as well as some other parts)

Installed it and took it to the shop I was working at and performed a full A/C service myself (Recovered, vacuumed & charged it) and it's been working ever since.

Guess how much the AC compressor w/ clutch, oil & o-ring costed? ~$200 from amazon.

It took me maybe 3 hours to do it myself the first time.

Sounds like the dealership that you worked at is ripping you off like every other dealership. Probably charging you $600-$700 for the same AC compressor you can buy yourself from amazon for only $200. And making you pay 3 hours labor (~$100/hr) and 1 hour for A/C service

Here's a link to the Denso AC compressor that fits all 2004-2008 Acura TLs



On a side note, I think it's funny how some people say "I am very picky about who gets to work on my car" and they only let the dealership service it. I can kind of understand that you bought a Acura so you only want Honda/Acura dealers working on it however there are times that independent shops can do the same job for a cheaper price.

A customer takes their car to a independent shop and the shop recommends services that needs to be done, the customer is quick to say that the shop is trying to rip them off and decline services.

BUT.

If that customer took their car to a Honda/Acura dealership and the dealership recommended services that DID NOT need to be done, the customer has no problem doing it because they are the "dealership".

One of the best mechanics I know never worked at any dealership before. Unlike the mechanics that work at the dealership my buddy is very knowledgeable about all car makes and models ranging from Dodge, GM, Ford, Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Volkswagen. He's aware of TSBs, recalls & common issues for specific make, model & years.

GKinColo08TL

Well said!

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

I will admit, yes the TL has its own little problems like the PS pump leak and the compliance bushing cracking. But those are very easy DIYs that don't cost even $50 if you can do it yourself. I'm a big DIYer so stuff like that doesn't bother me at all.
Would a lexus PS pump leak and have cracked bushings? Maybe not, but the car does cost more, and if you have any other repairs, I guarantee it's going to cost more than the TL to fix.
So the choice is buy a TL and have cheap and easy fixes, or spend more to buy a lexus and maybe have slightly less problems. Overall the lexus will still cost more though. Acura and lexus are 2 diff manufacturers and honestly they aren't true competitors. I don't think there's a wrong choice going with either

The2007TL

OP, by your own logic, you should not sell the TL to buy a Lexus. You should sell the TL ... to buy another TL.

Please note, this logic makes no sense, but essentially that would be the correct approach to replacing what you are effectively calling a one off lemon in an otherwise stellar quality brand based on your own experience and brand loyalty. In other words, THE TL is not the problem, rather YOUR TL is the problem, and you are unlikely to get another "lemon" especially since you already own one of the rare ones.

VisualEchos

iTrader: (1)

Please don't put words in my mouth, I never said the car was a lemon. And if you're just going to poke at me, or roll your eyes, you can see your way out of my thread. I thought this was a site for adults.