Welp.

Some of you may recall a thread I posted a month or so ago, where I expressed my concern with the timing belt/water pump kit that I got off ebay. I thought it was genuine when I purchased it, but during this thread, I explained the reasons why I begun to believe that it was a knockoff kit. https://acurazine.com/forums/third-g...t-isnt-988847/

I also said that I would look into re-doing the 105k service, and was just banking on the now seemingly fake kit to last me just 40k miles.

Today, my suspicions were unfortunately confirmed.




Not sure where to go from here. I'll probably end up taking the top end apart to look at the valves, I was unable to hear anything when the engine failed, I was listening to music when it died. All I know is that the starter sounds like it's trying a bit harder to move the engine....

I'm just assuming the worst. I've never taken apart this engine before, so I suppose there's a first time for everything.

I was wondering if anyone has any input on where to go from here. Whether I can get away with new heads, or if it's more cost-effective to simply source another engine and swap the entire thing, idk.

Working on finding a temporary ride at the moment.

A lesson learned the hard way. Be sure you are buying OEM parts.

Thanks for any thoughts or suggestions.

 

Throw belt at it and check compression. I had couple of honda v6 with broken belt that survived just fine.

 

I guess I have nothing to lose at this point, right? I've never done the belt job myself, I will need to look into how to tension it and line it up. Then at that point, if it's still screwed up, I'll then take off the heads.

I was going like 45 mph, on an incline, at least at 3k rpm when it failed. I'm sure that doesn't give high hopes for the engine being fine but again, I'm inexperienced when it comes to this failure.

 

so many warnings about the fake kits!!!! Throw a belt and see if it runs before you even want to do a compression check but you stated you've cranked the engine which isn't good. The cams are now disconnected from the crank (no timing belt) so the crank is spinning with pistons but not the VALVES! You could have made valve contact doing that since the cams are totally out of time!!!!

Thankfully heads aren't that bad of a job on these V6's and can be done in the driveway/garage. Youtube has a TON of videos showing how to do it and take "shortcuts" by not disassembling everything to little bits but leave it in larger assemblies. Rubber bands/zipties/tie wire is a great tool!

If the valves are bent it's easier to get junkyard heads or used ones rather than trying to get yours built unless you want to learn how to do it! I doubt any damage to the pistons as they are pretty sturdy vs the valves.

 

Im with Pete. Easy enough to just throw a belt and hope for the best.

https://acurazine.com/forums/third-g...ics%2A-784622/ is a great resource and so is Ericthecarguy on youtube. I just did the full job following the video and Majofo’s DIY thread with no problems (except i have an extra bolt

 

Yep, a mistake I will never make again. And also, I guess it was a natural reaction to try and restart the car, because I had no idea what happened, then I realized, shit it was probably the timing belt.

Not opposed to throwing new heads on it, especially if I could upgrade. Obtaining them/shipping may be an issue, but idk. I'll keep you posted

 

Sorry to hear about your dilemma.

 

Well...you shouldn't crank a car with a broken timing belt....

Anyway, you likely damaged the valves already at 3K.

I agree to toss a belt on and check compression.

 

That's the worst but we are human! You are totally right about natural reaction and that is why so many cars that get flooded get hydrolocked... instinct to restart!

Car-part.com will help greatly. LKQ and You-Pull-it and if they have a car, you can find people that advertise services to remove the parts for you from those places. Facebook marketplace also has a few sets of used heads. Just have to make sure they are good heads (no damage) and that they fit. I believe MDX, RL and TL heads of a variety of years fit with no issues.

I also agree with Zeta it might be easier/cheaper to swap in another engine depending on what damage you uncover such as a valve bouncing around the cylinder chewing up the cylinder walls, etc.

Do you have a boroscope with flexible head and light? Get a cheap one off amazon and you can look down spark plug holes for debris.

 

Hey, thanks for that. I will indeed try it.

 

Thanks for making me feel better lol, and I actually do. I will indeed pull the plugs and take a look. Will debris be a sure sign of valve damage, or they are not correlated? Because I know there could be carbon and what not on the tops of the cylinders, but idk

 

Coincidentally, my parents has an 08 Honda Odyssey EX as an extra vehicle. I'll have to sabotage the car/destroy the frame somehow then convince them to give the car to me to part out

 

main thing to see is that there is no pieces of valve sitting on the piston and that the walls are good. It should be easier to see once you get the camera head in and turned/flexed, the non-flex ones can suck unless they have multiple cameras. Also don't forget to post more pictures!

 

I will definitely do that. The borescope is wireless and goes through my phone so i should be able to easily take screenshots

 

When realigning everything, take the plugs out so engine is easy to crank, and then just simply move everything to the right position.

If you feel unusual resistance, then back off, and try to rotate different thing.

 

I was order Aisin kit for my WDP TL, however how much really save? not even $200 compare to OEM. Oh well OEM its is then.

 

Rough luck but there have been some stories of belt breaking with no issues. Hopefully the link will help.

https://www.odyclub.com/threads/rese...failure.95249/

 

Rock auto aisin kit! DO NOT buy from ebay/amazon, almost all are fake.

 

I have seen RA kit replaced, 15k miles later the tensioner goes bad. The reason I pick OEM because for fact i knew they good for at least 70k miles.

 

The Aisin kit from rockauto. OEM parts without the Honda name on the package. End of story.........
.
.

 

When I bought my latest TL a few months ago it was running poorly. I pulled off the cam gear covers and found that the back gear was off by two teeth, but the tensioner was good. I figured that the previous owner had broken the timing belt and then threw on a new one (and not bothering to make sure that it was set properly) and sold the car. All 12 intake valves were bent. I had a local machine shop rebuild the heads ($$$). After I re-installed the heads it was still running poorly, after a few compression/leakdown tests I replaced the block with one from a junkyard. All good now. Usually a junkyard will give you a "warranty" that their motors are good. Hope it goes well for you, OP.

 

If you bought that with your credit card make sure and call the bank and dispute the charge!

 

So 2 months after I showed you that picture of a snapped timing belt off a Honda Odyssey, you experienced the exact same thing. You had been warned sternly

It would be helpful if you post the actual ebay auction and seller about which timing belt kit you got so we can get these sellers off ebay.

 

Oh yeah, I remember. And that's when I said I would try to get a short time out of it before I replaced it with *guaranteed* legit parts. Sadly, it didn't even make it that long. Which absolutely sucks, because this month I refinanced my mortgage, and it would have been perfect with the extra money to get that done. That's the way life goes I guess.

And i looked up the original seller on ebay, his account is still active but isn't selling anything besides like a door handle at the moment. A lesson learned the hard way. As others have said, I'm going to throw on a belt because what's the worst that could happen at this point. That will obviously drive my next decision as far as a potential engine swap goes.

 

^
A cursory analysis:
If the engine, less the heads, is determined OK:
You can get two reman. heads; 16 head bolts; 2 head gaskets; 1 Aisin TKH002 TB kit from Rockauto, shipped to 43004 for around $1,275.
Core charge for the heads is $200. Purchase reduced shipping labels, from RockAuto, core return net to you would be around $160ish?
Total cost $1,115.37
No need to pull engine; not as much labor.

New used lower mileage? J32A3 shipped $650; Harbor freight engine hoist $190; RockAuto Aisin TKH002 TB kit around $177 shipped.
Total cost around $1,017
Engine is pulled; quite a bit of labor; engine hoist that may never be used again (could sell to recoup some $$)?

Did I overlook anything.

 

Couple things that came up in my mind:
- If going for replacing heads, it might be cheaper to find some local machine shop that will rebuild the head. I believe one that "I" used some time ago charged $350 for 4 cylinder civic head, including replacement of all valves. It was local, so no shipping, no core charge, etc. But that was some time ago, so no idea how much they would charge now. You most likely will need to adjust valves and wait couple days.
- There is a chance that only one head might be damaged, reducing the cost further.

- If going for the engine, hoist can be rented, and with engine out of the car doing timing belt is like 15 minutes.
- Pulling engine means opening AC system and dealing with exhaust. Well unless you tuck AC compressor on the side and pull engine this way.

In terms of labor, alldata gives same exact amount for complete engine and doing both heads (13.7h). Seems kinda excessive (don't say that to my customers hah). Probably can be done in one day.
In terms of practicality - If working at home, heads are easier. If working at the shop (having access to the car lift), I would go for the engine.

 

found some J37A1 heads for 150 (for both) picked up in MA if you are interested for your car if the valves are bent!

 

Used heads are certainly cheaper than having your heads rebuilt. I had my stock heads rebuilt, and including replacing the 12 bent intake valves it cost around $1,000.

 

Great information!
That price point is reasonably inline with remanufactured complete heads including camshaft on RockAuto:
FAMOUS BRAND 2548BR; $492.79
FAMOUS BRAND 2548BL; $528.79
Core return; $200

 

Also, for what it's worth, it's sometimes hard to tell if a valve is bent just by looking at it. You can insert the valve into a drill and spin it up to see if you can spot a wobble

 

Life has really been kicking my ass lately. I got tested covid positive this past week, and I've been bedridden since right about now where I can finally get back to working on this. Guess I really don't need a car right now anyways.

Check out this catastrophe. The lower belt dust cover is 95% intact, with the seal being deformed at one point, and the bottom right fastener hole being broken. Probably going to have to replace it.




Looks like I may be in the market for a new front belt cover as well.


Apart from feeling horrible, this is extremely discouraging. Who knows if the crank sensor is still in good shape. There's a lot of debris inside the bottom of the tb assembly. Guess the only thing I can do is keep moving forward to get my new belt on to see if somehow the thing miraculously turns over/starts without huge issues. I don't have a high hopes. I'm just trying to replace the belt for now.

If i replace the belt, will it hurt to try and start the car without any of the covers on? I figure it's not worth replacing all the pullys, tensioner, water pump if the engine ends up being toast anyways. I just want to see if my heads are done for.

I figured I could go back and do the WP, tensioner, etc. if things look promising.

 

hmmm now why is that cover plate all mishapen..


you can definitely run the car with the upper/lower timing covers off to see if it's working properly. Hell you could always just install the belt and then manually rotate the crank yourself

 

I feel like I'm going to be posting a lot in this thread in the near future...

Looks like i need a new crank sensor and sensor shield. The eye for the sensor got busted off halfway inside the block when the TB snapped, and the shield got deformed during this as well.

I'm starting to wonder if I'm just wasting my time throwing money at all these parts. Any brand suggestions for a new sensor where I'm not paying hundreds of dollars?

 

Did you already price out a junk engine? Probably is going to be way cheaper in the long run. I would be surprised if you don't have bent valves. Do you own a leakdown tester?

 

I did, I can get one relatively cheap, my logic was that it would be better to replace everything including the heads (if necessary), instead of just dedicating myself to an engine swap. Idk maybe I just need to accept the fact an engine swap would be best. I do not own a leakdown tester.

 

In my case a standard compression test yielded good results, but the leakdown test is where you can see if the valves are bent. I could hear the air rushing through the intake. Depressing.

 

You don't need crank sensor or put any covers back to check compression. I would bet that this small bent washer is not required as well. Just put crank pulley on so belt has nowhere to go. If compression good, then you can start ordering parts.

 

Just connect the pressure tester fitting to the air line. You don't need fancy gauge measuring how much air is leaking, as bent valve will max it out anyways. But you will need to put belt on the engine and set it in time before any compression / leak testing.

Also, try posting in only one thread.

 

Here's a crank sensor for $21.79 from rockauto.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...432641&jsn=464

 

Thanks, coincidentally I think i mistook the "eye" for something that is just a mounting stud. It may not affect anything even though it snapped off, because the entire assembly still can be mounted correctly with the fasteners. I may be able to reuse my old one.