I have to call BS on this. Every manual transmission car I had (except my last one, a Contour SVT) had a significant transmission failure of some kind not covered by warranty. My wife's cars have been automatics, and although she's had transmission trouble as well they have always been covered under warranty.

One of those cars was a Taurus SHO, which SouthernBoy you probably know was blessed with a sweet engine and the world's worst throwout bearing. Over 75000 miles I put 4 clutches in that car, and only once was it covered by Ford despite the faulty design.

I think the belief that a manual is more reliable / less costly than an automatic is an adage that doesn't hold up in today's world - a manual will cost a significant amount of money to maintain (clutch replacements are not cheap at all) over the long haul as will an automatic.

Mike

 

Even though the original thread author has not responded.... I added the common sense questions to the poll.

Now it makes a little sense....

 

To svtmike;

BS, eh?

Hey Mike, you know I respect your offerings and opinions, but I will have to respectfully part opinions on this one (the idea of manuals costing less to maintain that autos). I've never replaced a clutch on a manual vehicle I've ever owned except for my first one which managed to suffer a leaking transaxle seal that also managed to somehow get onto the clutch components (a Corvair Spyder).

So in this department your and my experiences are just the opposite. A clutch should easily see over 200,000 miles.

 

200,000 miles on a (well-designed) clutch would be a lot of highway driving combined with very little spirited running around in the twisties with a very experienced stick driver. This thread was started by a guy who's never owned a manual and is going to be spending his time in Chicago-area traffic (something that I know very well) - he's going to be in a lot of stop and go. I don't care how good you are at driving a stick - Chicago traffic with a newbie stick driver is hell on a clutch and throwout bearing.

Combine that with a real lack of fun, twisty roads (we have a flat geography so our roads tend to be very straight) and there's not a lot of places to really get that stick-driving grin that everyone in here is getting so misty-eyed about.

Anyway, I stand by my experience with three high horsepower FWD stick vehicles over 18 years in Chicago - it will not be cheaper than an automatic for this guy. The clutch will get torn up, and no dealer will cover it under warranty.

Mike

 

And I'll call BS on this one as well. There are plenty of professional race car drivers that have street cars with automatic transmissions. I am a "stick person", but if I lived in DC or in upper Northern VA I'd save the stick for a weekend driver, not my commuter. I don't believe a stick car is at it's best moving 10 mph 10 yards at a time and there are plenty of "stick drivers" that agree with that. And you don't have to "find excuses" if your traffic pattern is like this. The excuses will find you.

 

I just put 125,000 miles on my 99 civic 5 speed, which for a portion of the time, included a 62 mile commute from Orange County to Northridge. Tons of rush hour traffic and I had it with always shifting from first to second, back to first, then to second, oh wait, neutral...

That's why I got the 5AT, I was just tired of shifting all the time. The only way I see myself buying another manual is if it's a weekend car or something and I've got that kind of paper lying around to spend.

 

To JackSprat01;

I respect your post but I stand by my statements for reasons about which I am quite comfortable.

It's a personal perspective, really. I drive one of two vehicles to work everyday.. most often my Ford Ranger pickup.. which is also a manual. I go in at 4:45 in the morning on route 66 to the Centreville area and come home through Manassas to avoid 66 since it is so unpredictable. On the few days I drive my TL to work, I go through Manassas both aways, mainly to avoid rocks and stones thrown up on the TL.

I have driven in heavy traffic in the DC area all of my life and having done quite a bit of contracting (software engineering type), I have worked both sides of the river (I will avoid working in DC like the plague.. I hate the place). Accept for the only automatic car I've ever owned, all others in this pool have been manuals. I have never "wished" for an automatic during this time. Heck, it so, I would have bought another one.

I would buy an automatic pickup, mostly because of the sheer utility of the beast. But never for my personal driving machine.

Again, it's a personal perspective and one with which I am quite happy and content.

 

Oh I should add that my statement,

"If you find yourself starting to find excuses or reason not to get a manual transmission, then you are really not a commited manual tranny driver."

was in the context of if someone finds himself questioning and agonizing between transmission types, then there is obviously a dilemma here. The person is not a commited manual driver, so perhaps an automatic would be the better choice for him.

Hope I have cleared that one up, gentlemen.

 

To svtmike;

I AM a very experienced manual driver as most may know on this site from my postings. Back in the early 90's, a lady I worked with had had enough with her Chevy Cavalier's two auto tranny rebuilds/replacements (out of warranty, too), so she bought a '92 Honda Accord LX with a 5-speed. She had owned a manual in the past, but she asked me to give her some lessons on the finer points and teach her how to better operate the thing. We worked in Reston and she lived in Laurel, Maryland, so she was married to the beltway and the Cabin John bridge to and from work. She was a quite study and learned fast and right.
When I last spoke with her, in '98', she had over 140,000 miles on the car and still had the original clutch.. and it was still tight and not slipping.

It can be done if you operate the tranny the right way and don't do things that most people do.

As for the SVT Contour, that car was over-engineered by the SVT people at Ford. The clamping pressure on that clutch was 1400 pounds and the engine only produced 169 lb/ft of torque (2000 model). To put that in perspective, the clamping pressure of the 1988 Mustang 302 (5.0 for you liter lovers) was 1837 pounds and that engine was rated at 300 lb/ft (it was putting out a little more than 300).

But you are right svtmike about a newbe on a manual in heavy traffic. Unless they learn fast and right, they'll go through a clutch before they go through an automatic tranny.

 

life's too short for automatic T

 

I have an auto. I would disagree with the above statement. The SportShift is kissing your sister. If you want real fun, get the manual. I wish I had.

 

I know how you feel, I wish I had gotten my Maxima in a stick, I actually had the chance to exchange it for a stick the day after I bought it without any negative equity or what not but the sale person talked me out of of it. I regretted not getting the stick everyday I drove that car.

You can bet my TL is a stick, I told myself I was going to get a stick no matter what, of course people tried to talk me out of getting the stick, but I knew what I really wanted so I got it anyway.

 

hardly

 

I have the AT and while I don't regret it, I can tell that I'm kind of getting bored with it. Basically, I'm looking for more performance that I know would have come with the MT. My reasoning behind the AT was simple, the wife doesn't know how to drive a MT. To date, she really hasn't driven my TL much so I kick myself for getting the AT, but at the same time I know she'll be inheriting my TL in a year or so. Then, I can get myself something new and this time a MT for sure!


Hope this helps!

 

My brother-in-law made the same mistake as you -- getting his TL with 5AT because of the wife. He also has the same regrets as you.

For me, the fact that my wife doesn't know how to drive the 6MT was a big plus for me to get it with 6MT. I never get any arguments about what car to take if I'm the driver.

 

Not only that, but you completely avoid her taking the car and returning it with dents, scuffs and who knows what else!?! She doesn't really like to drive it, I figure because she knows how anal I am about my car. Regardless, it'll be hers in a year or two and I'll have the opportunity to jump back into a MT. Maybe something not as nice as the TL, but more sporty. Any idea if Acura has plans to bring back the Type R??

 

 

That's what I meant by "a big plus" to get the 6MT that she cannot drive

Another personal plus is avoiding her turning my TL into her c(ar)loset. She tends to take her 'accessories' such as purse, make-up bag, extra shoes, newspaper, coffee cup, etc. In the end, it would take time just to clean up afterwards.

So, the decision for me to get 6MT was not only for my driving pleasure, but also was very practical for me.