I know there are extensive complaints about the headliner in the 04 TL. I noticed mine is starting to drop in a few areas. What has been your experience with this? Does the dealer attempt to fix it, or will they go straight to replacing it? If they replace it, do you run the risk of it happening again, or do they use a improved method on the re-install?

 

I made this reply in another thread, but I am adding something here for clarity and reposting it here so I can have a reference on this issue all in one place. Sorry if it is really long, but I am trying to give a good explanation of the problem.

How bad is it? Mine sags a little because 2 of the velcro strips don't stick on the metal brace anymore, but I am going to wait until it gets worse.

If you open the sunroof and look into that area from the outside of the car, you will see how they are supposed to stick to the metal brace and then decide which way you want to go.

Just to clarify. There are three blocks, about 1" square, across the inside of the headliner, with velcro. This is different from the velco I have seen, because both sides are hard plastic, where usually velcro is hard plastic on one piece and a felt like material on the other.

There is a metal channel across the roof just inside the front edge (at the rear of the sunroof opening). The top piece of velcro is stuck to that. This is the piece that is coming loose. On mine, 2 are loose, and the one at the driver's side is still stuck on.

The headliner is like a shell. It is not just cloth glued to the roof like on some cars. The shell is like a thin plastic, so it is fairly rigid. This means that the headliner will not droop down excessively. I believe it is made this way so that some type of soundproofing material can be inserted between the headliner and the roof, but I could be wrong.

I believe having the sunroof open, at faster speeds, is part of the problem since I think the airflow helps separate the velco from its mounting.

Mine is only hanging down about 1/4", not enough to worry about yet. Some reports say it is 2-3", which is way too much and needs fixing. Some people say Acura replaced their headliner. Unless the plastic material stretched, which is not likely but possible, the best fix is for Acura to come up with some velcro with a better adhesive. This can then be repaired without removing the headliner, since opening the sunroof gives you access to this area and the new piece can easily be attached to the metal channel.

The best fix would be for some mechanical link between the metal channel and the headliner, but for now we are stuck with velcro that comes unstuck.

Possible do-it-yourself repair

All you need to do is separate the top piece of velcro from the bottom one, stick the epoxy on it, stick it to the metal channel, wait until it is firmly set, and then stick the two pieces of velcro together. It doesn't seem as if there is any problem with the bottom piece, so this should do it.

 

I think this is probably the best method to get around this problem. Why waste your time taking the car into the dealer when you know that the problem will be fixed inadequately or they'll try to replace the entire shell (which is unnecessary)? This is kind of like the moonroof rattle problem. Two pieces of felt took care of that problem, and while I agree that a $35,000 Acura should not have this problem, it was so much easier just to take care of it myself.

 

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?p=748956

 

Are there any side-affects with this approach? Will the Epoxy damage anything by the fact that's it is so strong?

 

I don't see any. What you are doing is sticking something on to something so it doesn't come off, which is what Acura should have done in the first place. If you were putting the epoxy on the headliner, there could be possible damage by it bleeding through or just eating through the material, but it is going on a metal strip, and there should be no adverse reaction to the epoxy on metal.

If they intended for the headliner to separate from the brace for some reason, such as excessive wind with the sunroof open, which of course is not really likely, then they would have made the VELCRO weaker, not the adhesive that holds it on. That way, you could just press the velcro back together when the situation that caused the separation was over.

 

My problem is on the cover for the third brake light. The cloth seems to be pulling away from the ceiling in three or four spots about the size of a silver dollar. This seems different than what other people are experiencing. The rest of my headliner seems fine.

 

I have the exact same problem as TNTL. When i press the bubbles, it sticks for about another week. Car only has 4000 miles. Should I take it to the dealer when it's coming down?

 

Sorry but can someone tell me what a headliner is? I could not figure out what it is from thoseclosed up pics.

Thanks

 

I took my car by the Acura dealer today, and they are going to order a new cover for the third brake light and replce it. They said it would take about a week to get the part, and the install should be very quick.

 

I, too, have a lot of light that shines out into the car from the passenger side of the third brake light. Is this what you are referring to?

 

No. I'm refering to the cloth material that covers the third brake light cover and matches the rest of the headliner. The cloth is pulling away from the cover itself and creating several bubbles.

 

I just noticed the cloth pulling away from my brake light as well. No props to Acura on this one at all. Here is a photo :

http://home.comcast.net/~jjnippoldt/DSC00728.JPG

Edit : Changed image to link due to size.

 

Holy resize.

 

Sorry, didn't realize the pic was that big...

 

Take the car to the dealership and let them fix it. You might even get an RSX to play with while your TL is getting fixed.

 

I just did the epoxy fix to my headliner this weekend, and it is holding great. Thanks for everyones help with that. I've been diagnosing and fixing many little rattle's and pops since I got the car and I think I am finally at a point where I have an almost perfectly quiet car (at least quiet enough where I'm not bothered anymore and I'm very sensitive to interior noises).

Overall for people having problems I advise trying to diagnose and fix yourself before going to the dealer. In my experience you drive the car everyday and will be much more accurate and determined in finding the cause of the noise. Test areas while the car is off, where the noise is coming from, by pushing and moving pieces of the car to see if you can recreate the noise, then if possible try to stop the noise while driving by pressing on that same spot. I just solved a mild noise I would get from the area of the drivers side B pillar. It was kind of a rubbing/light cracking noise. only happened when the window was up. Found it was the top left corner of where he window slides in is an area that makes that noise when pressing on it. I was able to place some felt in there by having the window down and shoving it in the slot. anyway all better now.

Dlev

 

That's exactly what mine did, it was fixed after two attempts.

 

Dlev,

Did your front passenger door rattle badly? The dealer has tried to fix what sounds like loose coins in the door now 2 times, they have yet to find it, also it seems temperature sensitive so when it warms up it goes away making it harder to find.

 

Whoa - I have that same problem where I hear this mild rubbing/crack noise when the window was up. I thought I was going crazy because I couldn't find it when I was driving. It almost seemed like wind noise too. Can you take a photo of this fix? I'd love to see it.

 

I have a rattle in the front passenger door that only comes out in very peculiar driving conditions. I think it's structural, in the sense that if my driving is sending a certain stress frequency to the body, it will show up as a rattle. It's tied to the black carbon fiber/aluminum area near the door lock. Right behind that, if you pound it lightly, you can hear this loose rattling noise. It only rears its ugly head occasionally... and usually at lower speeds when I'm turning or backing out of a driveway. Odd.

 

I tried tapping the door panel but get no noise at all, only when it's colder outside does it happen. Some noises are just plain strange.

 

Okay, I now have a consistent rattling noise (like a vibrating piece of plastic) when I knock on the area right by the window on both driver and passenger side doors. It's the area right above the carbon fiber/aluminum trim (what you might consider a "window sill" for the driver doors).

When the windows are closed, you can knock on those areas and hear the dull rattle noise consistently. If the windows are even half an inch open, the noise is gone...

 

Lore --

I've noticed a similar "rattle" on my driver-side door. If I pull the door lock "stub" toward me (it is in the unlocked position -- I can't stand auto-lock) with sufficient force, the rattle goes away. As soon as I release the door lock, the rattle returns. I'll have to try tapping on the door panel tomorrow AM.

 

I just noticed over the weekend that the headliner cover on the third brake light on the back of my car is also sagging badly when the interior of my car gets cool or cold (6485 miles driven). I was very surprised to see this so I will have to contact my dealership (Columbia, SC) to have this repaired ASAP!

 

Ain't it a bitch? My door's rattle is consistently there but does NOT consistently show up when driving. That means that if I knock on it I can hear the loose part rattling around, (sounds like a vibrational sound) but it does not always make its presence known when I cruise the city streets.

I hear the same thing on the other side, so I'm thinking maybe disassembling the door entirely and then putting lots of foam on the otherside might help. However, I don't want to chance damaging my door or the trim by taking it off.

 

no I don't have that from my passenger door

 

Unfortunately my fix didn't work as well as I initially thought and I'm still getting the noise occasionally. Back to trying new fixes.

Does anyone with an Auto find that the bottom left corner of the shifter unit is lose? mine is and is the cause of many creaking noise's coming from the dash, it's worse as of late, or I'm just noticing it now. but I can actually feel the creaks by placing my fingers on the shifter unit while driving and can feel it move while it creaks.

 

Same here. It's on-again off-again. If a bass-heavy song is playing, the noise appears at certain frequencies.

I, too, have been steering clear of disassembling the door. I have my first service coming up, so I figure I'll let the dealer have a swag at it. (Though that worries me, as well.)

 

A quick word on epoxies. Experience from uses outside of the automotive realm:

Devcon epoxy will likely fail with heating/cooling cycles (like freezing)
Five minute epoxies are mostly bad. Devcon 5 minute is doubly bad.

One very good one is the long set (24 hour, I think) shafting epoxy that you can buy at a Golfsmith store or online from them. Strong and stays a little more flexible than most.

 

Has anyone had a successful long term repair for the headliner from the dealer? I re-epoxied mine and it must have shifted while drying despite my attempt to secure it in place so now the velcros are not 100% lined up, so no good stick. I am tired of dicking around with this (going against my DIY attitude) - I just dont feel like messing with it anymore - does dealer have working fix? Do you know what it is?

I was thinking to find the velcro they use in strips and put like a 4" piece on either side of the center piece and see if that will hold it - what else has anyone else done? Anyway to secure it with a bolt or "tie" it with wire? I used to have some heavy duty magnets that you could practiclally pull the fridge across the room by - they were that strong. Could you maybe epoxy one side to the headliner side and it would "stick" to the metal upper side - and yet even give a little to flex with headliner???

 

Radio Shack sells something called super velcro which is essentially what the headliner is put up with. What I would (and will) do is try to separate the top piece of velcro (one where adhesive released) from the bottom without damaging the bottom piece. Then get some rubbing alcohol and clean the metal brace really well. Find the matching half from the Radio Shack stuff (there is a top and bottom piece) and stick it on to the brace then just push the headliner onto the upper velcro. If you want to go the adhesive route. I would use silicone rubber sealant - the stuff they seal aquariums with. You'll have to let the stuff set up for 24 hrs before you stick the headliner back up but since this is a flexable adhesive - it tends to bond better. Again - clean the brace with alcohol before gluing.

 

There is nothing wrong with the velcro used in the TL. The problem is the adhesive. You can reuse the top piece of velcro and glue it back on the metal strip.

We have all had good luck with ep[oxy, but so far no one has reported using siliscone rubber sealant. If you do use this sealant, be sure and let us know how it holds up. This could be better or worse than epoxy (although I think epoxy is the stronger of the two), but will be interested in your findings.

 

I work with adhesives all the time as I am a research technician for a polymer company. The problem with epoxy is that it has no flex to it so changing temperatures (where the metal and epoxy have different rates of expansion) will tend to beak the bond between the two different materials. Epoxy works well with porous materials where it can soak into the substrate - things like wood. Since metal is only porus at the microscopic level - the adhesive can't get a good grip. Possible a metal filled epoxt like JB Weld might work better but for starters I'll spend the couple of bucks at Radio Shack and just replace the upper piece after cleaning everything real well. If that doesn't hold I'm going to silicone next - Think about it - if it can hold 100 gal. aquariums together with the pressures involved and glass isn't porous - it should be able to hold the few pounds that a headliner weights.

 

I, too, have the center stop light problem. I think the sun beats down on the black side of the cover and heats it from above. Here in Florida that could easily hit 150 deg. Over time, the weight of the headliner fabric overcomes the heated, softened adhesive and it begins to sag from this piece. The rest of the headliner is unaffected.

 

After my epoxy design failed to last more than two weeks and the dealer epoxy failed to last more than 2 minutes I went out on a limb with a new approach - and it is working great so far. Read on if you are having epoxy troubles....

Attached are pics of what I did to fix my headliner. Magnets. Yep, you read it right - M-A-G-N-E-T-S!! The first pic shows the metal snips I bought and a piece of metal stripping. I cut out three pieces the same exact size as the velcro so I could slip the metal into the clip-like holders on the headliner side. Could not find the exact thickness of metal so I went for a thinner one and shoved some thin cardboard under it (like a matchbook thickness) I had some thicker metal, but it was stressing the clips too much I was afraid they would snap, so I went thinner.

Scraped off all the failed glue attempts - both my own and the dealer's. Went to a website called www.kjmagnetics.com where they sell all kinds of super powerful magnets - all shapes and sizes. Guys, these things will pinch your fingers - unbelivable strength. The magnets in the picture were not actually used - while they would not let go of the metal strip above, they were 3/8 thick and you need to use 1/4 " thick magnet - otherwise you give yourself a permanant gap of about an 1/8" and that is what we are trying to avoid. So I used 1/2 diameter x 1/4 thick disc magnets. Three of #D84B Grade N45 Disc, 1/2 x 1/4".

Stuck one to each of my 3 square metal plates I cut from the metal and then pushed them up to the piece of flexible steel that the old velcros were glued to. Bingo! Headliner is up there and is not coming down. If it does come down - like I said the 3/8" magnets were 3/4 " x 3/8" too thick, I will go and order some 3/4" x 1/4" and use them, but I think these I am using are good enough. Check out the
pics.

Snips bought at Home Depot and some metal stripping too :


If they had only used these wonderful clips on the top side of this we would not be having this conversation! Clips holding metal where it used to hold velcro.



My gap BEFORE - kinda exhaggerated here from me working on it - it usually sagged only a 1/4 inch or so - no more than 1/2



Magnet stuck to metal (not the magnet actually used.) More strength than needed, but just 1/8 inch too thick. Did this on all three clips.



My gap AFTER - oh that's right...there is NO gap anymore!!!


Patent Pending!!!

 

Just bumping this back up in case someone finds it helpful

 

Just had my headliner fix at the dealership as well. It fell down on the rear passenger side door. Seem like a problem with a lot of TL.