JonDeutsch

There are a number of people (including myself) who weren't very happy with the stock sound (esp the highs) when playing normal CDs and listening to the radio.

There was talk about replacing tweeters, or figuring out if the EQ was done in the amp or in the head unit.

SVTMike also mentioned he was going to do a full analysis on the peaks and valleys of the spectrum of audible sound.

Just wondering where all this stands.

I'm still befuddled on how a DVD-A can sound so clean yet the radio sound so lacking in highs. Frustrating that the treble control only goes to 6.

Jon

svtmike

I don't think I said I was going to do this!

Mike

JonDeutsch

Sorry Mike... I coulda sworn it was you. I guess it was someone else.

Jon

youngmic

I'm very impressed with the sound of the stock audio system. I believe it to be one of the best 2 available factory installed audio systems available - the other being the Lexus Mark Levinson system. Which one is the best is a toss up.

Factory speakers always seem to be a bit of a compromise, though. I'd love to hear what a full set of Boston Acoustic componts sounded like. I'll bet you could drop in a set of their pro series speakers in the dash and front doors, a single co-axial in the center, and a couple of co-axials and a subwoofer in back. I'm sure it would sound fantastic. Enough to spend the money? I'd have to hear it first. But I'm sure I'd be tempted!

JonDeutsch

Just seems like the system is inconsistent in its ability to reproduce clear, quality music. Some stuff sounds really good, some sounds really mushy.

I can't figure out what the issue is... but I'm concerned it's the head unit.. that the speakers aren't getting the frequency information they need to reproduce them for the radio source.

Jon

gldman

Jon, Do you find that XM is a problem or FM. I have found that quality on different XM station is not the same. I guess this is the content. If you are referencing FM, I guess I will have to listen. So far I have only listed to one song on FM which caught my ear as flipped through the mode selection. Have you listened to XM 71 Watercolors for quality I think this is one of the best?

JonDeutsch

gldman,

First, listen to a CD or a DVD-A. Then switch to FM. Now, of course FM can't sound as good as CD or DVD-A. But considering how good radio *can* sound, I find it hard to believe how muddy and blah FM sounds on a system that does such a nice job on DVD-A.

Jon

lflorack

I agree that Waterecolors is one of the best sounding XM stastions. Fortunately, I like jazz. ;-)

Norse396

I'm VERY impressed with CD, DTS and DVD-A playback, FM unless cranked lacks depth and clarity, my Mach system in my 2002 Taurus sounded better in FM.

I'm going to live with the FM section and I've decided to only work on the sub-woofer for now. I'm doing some research on what will blend in with this system.

¿GotJazz?

Hi, JonDeutsch -

That may have been me. I already did an analysis on the low end of the ELS sound system (Original thread here: Improving the sound on the '04TL ELS Sound System).

If you're waiting for the rest of the analysis, it's because I haven't received my car yet (but I finally got my build date - Yeah!). I was going to send out an update after I tested my car for two reasons:

(1) I still want to check out the upper frequencies, and

(2) The original suggested adjustments were on a non-Navi system. The Navi-based bass adjustments may have totally different slope characteristics (an adjustment of "-1" on non-Navi may not have the same effect as a "-1" on the Navi).

Expect an update somewhere around the end of February, unless you can convince Acura to get me my car sooner!

Based on what you are saying, I'm betting that the problem is source driven. There's no telling what Acura / Panasonic did in the head unit as far as frequency response is concerned. Depending on their designs, it's easy to believe that FM could sound a lot more muted than CDs & DVD-As.

One highly probable reason would be poor FM sesitivity, due to the grid antenna system in the rear window. From what I remember (it's been a few years since school, guys, so cut me some slack if I'm wrong), the grid antenna will be more directional due to it's design. Directionality can be a good thing - when aligned properly, you can get better reception then from a omnidirectional whip antenna. Unfortunately, your car isn't always sitting still.

To offset the directionality, multiple grid arrays can be used (one in the rear window, one in the front), or you can use an additional whip antenna, either system combined with a diversity switching system. The switching system constantly monitors the signal quality from each antenna and then switches to the best one. Embedded grid antennas generally don't receive radio broadcasts as well unless there is more than one antenna with some physical separation.

The stronger your FM reception, the better your overall FM frequency response and channel separation will be. You need to recieve the L-R portion of the signal clearly, or you'll just end up with a poor quality mono-like FM (L+R) response. The antenna may be your enemy in this.

That's just one thought. I get others, too.

Cheers!

Norse396

¿GotJazz?,

I think you got it right regarding FM.

LED Master

¿GotJazz?,

I just posted about this very subject regarding FM reception, we seem to be on the same page here regarding dual diversity antenas.

However, the TL lacks a dual diversity antena!

I had crappy nissans that had them and they worked great, yet none in the TL, go figure.

Some of the things Honda does just does not make sense

When I did a survey for Acura in early November, I complained about the FM reception, and the lack of a dual diversity antena, one of thier tech people called to ask about the reception but had no answers as to why no dual diversity.

mrtech

Same here. I did notice a big diff when listening to Watercolors.

browndognj

Seems the dates on this topic are a little dated, any updates on findings re: FM? What would percentage increase does anyone think we could get with maybe an upgrade amp with improved speakers? With regard to XM, I have a delphi unit in my Audi, direct connected via CD changer and Blitzsafe cable, no FM modulator...XM in the TL much better, my audi xm sound is very "tinny".

UminChu

I've thought about a speaker upgrade, but if equalization is artificially manipulated to accentuate certain frequency ranges in order to maximize the response of cheapo stock units, then replacing them with full range quality drivers could be nothing more than money wasted, because the sound coming out of them will be overly colored and sound just plain wrong. I don't have the training nor the skills to make the determination, I was hoping another owner might be more qualified and help out.

Nodoze2004

The FM issue could very easily be linked to the lack of a standard Antennae. The windshield antennae is great but it is not the same. I personally listen to AM if I listen at all (gotta have Paul Harvey on the way to work) and am glad that there is no guady antennae, but such is life.

hoyahenry

Of note, I put the 5th element soundtrack CD in the other day. WOW! Made me wonder why I bothered to pick up a few DVD-As. I think maybe the system is so good that it renders what it is given for input.

youngmic

hoyahenry, that is also my belief. I've said it before - I think the TL's audio system is among the best, if not the best.

I have a TSX loaner right now. The audio system, though very good, does not really compare. I've heard some say that the highs are "silkier" and there is more bass. That is not my perception.

What I do perceive is a dip in mid and upper mid frequencies. This leads to less clarity in vocals and some instruments within that range. It also leads to the perception that highs are "silkier". In reality, I believe they are simply more noticable.

I am particularly impressed with the imaging of the TL's audio system. For a car audio system based on components chosen with costs in mind (is that a nice way of saying "cheap"?), it does a very respectable job. Vocal and instrument reproduction is excellent - pleasing, clear, defined, and discernable.

It's interesting to note that many, upon first hearing a set of near-field studio monitors or high end audiophile speakers, comment that the low and/or high end seems to be weak - that there is too much midrange. In reality, these systems are very neutral and add very little "color" to the music. In other words, the music is not "interpreted", just reproduced.

In many cases, people react this way because they're used to listening to music with the bass and treble turned up so they maximize that sizzle and thump feel. This does not necessarily reflect what the actual sound engineer or producer intended.

To each his or her own - if you like to listen that way, great! I happen to prefer as transparent a reproduction as possible. Systems that are capable of delivering a neutral, transparent reproduction of the source material will definitely reveal weaknesses in that same source material - be that FM radio or DVD-A.

Hey, be satisfied. You all have what is quite possible the best stock car audio system available today.

underpar

I've put a JL Audio 10W3 and a Rockford Fosgate Punch 125.2 in mine. Sounds pretty good. It was just leftover stuff anyway. Didn't cost me a dime!

UminChu

youngmic: Nice post. Maybe your right, perhaps the real flaw is in my being conditioned to listening to colored sound. I'll think about that next time I'm driving and listen more carefully.

supdawg

What kind of adapter did you have to buy to intergrate into the stock system?

spidey07

The stereo is very fine indeed. But like all quality audio systems if you feed it garbage...you're going to get garbage.

Take a regular CD - generally sounds pretty crappy but it is usually just a poor recording (VERY common)

On FM radio...could the tuner just be crappy? Or a combination of poor tuner with poor antenna?

I've heard some very nice FM using an analog tuner in my 2-ch stereo at home.

billk86

DVD-A does sound incredible. I wish XM had more juice. Other then that the sound is okay. Nothing is going to compare to DVD-A.

hoyahenry

Okay, let me reiterate.

I have at least one CD that is superlative to everything I currently have in any other format, including DVD-A.

Jimbemotumbo

Both my wife and I agree the setero isn't as good as we expected. The Mach 460 in my 01 Cobra sounds waaaaay better to my ear.

FM sucks. XM varies from sucks to sucks bad (I'm sure the source varies from channel to channel). I've tried a variety of CDs and DVD-As. Played with all the adjustments. Some of the DVD-As are at least marginal, but none sound as good as plain CDs or FM in my Mach 460 or the low end Alpine/Infiniti references in my GMC truck. Yes, my truck sounds better than this TL system!

Seems to be a combination of poor speakers, low power (which explains the 2 ohm speakers) and either poor freq response (FM, XM, and CD/DVD) or possibly even ineffective tone adjustments.

I look forward to any upgrade information.

Mindcrime

You should have heard the stock stereo in my BMW 323I. Now that is a piece of crap compared to the TL stereo. I ended up putting in $1,600 in speakers, amps, sub just to get it to sound good.

rynpamn21

i think that's how it is with most stereo set-ups...they can't play all kinds of music....like set-ups that play good r&b & hip-hop with a lot of good & low bass won't sound as good with other types of music say classical....the only thing you can do is fool around with the bass, treable and fader settings...w/ the TL you have an additional center and sub channel to adjust....IMO the sound set up of the TL plays alternative and pop really well...r&b & hiphop is above average, hmmm what else....dance music....is kinda below par...

digital_b

since fm signal is compressed at the radio station [dynamic range] how good do you expect it to sound? and youngmic is right. if you have used equalizers or bass and treble controls excessively then you dont know what the music 'really' sounds like anyway. not a dis, its a fact. most of us do this.

youngmic

You've got to be kidding! You must be trolling. There is just no way! You're trying to be funny, right? I mean, the Mach 460? A Ford stereo? I'm laughing as I type this.

I got my TL back today after 6 days in a TSX loaner. I listened to the same CD's that I'd been listening to in the TSX in the TL: Rachmaninov - Piano Concerto No. 2, Pat Metheny - Imaginary Day, Mark Isham - Tibet, Susan Ashton - A Distant Call, Steve Tibbets - Bye, Bye, Safe Journey, and Jon Hassel/Brain Eno - Fourth World Vol. 1, Joni Mitchell - Blue, Switchfoot - Beautiful Letdown (actually, I've only listened to this in the TL).

Let me tell you, the TL's audio system is fantastic! I don't care if the pink noise generaters and real time analyzers say that there's a cutoff above 10K, this is hands down the most transparent stock car audio system I've ever heard. I could go on about the qualities that excite me about it, but this is supposed to be a car forum, right?

BTW, I listen to a wide variety of music - rock, classical, jazz, folk, fusion, blue grass, hip hop (yes, some hip hop). And I'm a musician. This system sounds good with all of them.

I'll put it this strongly (and I'm not directing this at Jimbemotumbo specifically but to everyone in general - and it is of course, opinion) - if you don't like the way the TL audio system sounds, then you don't know what a good audio system should sound like.

OK - go ahead, let the flames begin...

youngmic

Hmm...

I thought for sure this would stir up some controversy (maybe I'm the troll)

lovepo9e

yeah the stock sub sucks. i tapped into the rear sub line and i use the sub control like a gain for my amp

partagas

Most of y'all posts are nonsense. I replaced the tweeters with top of the line Alpines and they cleaned up the highs, making strings more distinct and female voices clearer and sweeter.

BTW, the objective is hifi, not boom boom.

WickedWiz

Excellent little upgrade. The system does need some brighter tweeters. Can you give the model numbers of the tweeters, and any installation tips you might have. The low end in this system is more then enough. Additional subs is pure over kill.

Wicked.

partagas

Sorry, I just went to a little hole in the wall stereo guy, told him that I waqnted clarity over sizzle and he came up with these $100 Alpines which fit right in the stock settings and that's all. I agree, for hifi, the bass is plenty, actually too much for clear male voice. I turn down the bass one click and leave the subs flat.

supdawg

Sweet!, so do you have full adjustment over your subs? I.E, can you mute the subs? Also, does your amplifier have one of those bass booster knobs that connects to the amp via RJ-11 tele cord?

Jimbemotumbo

So after my rant and in reading some other posts I decided to take the Infiniti Refs out of my pickup and put them in the TL. Just the fronts, mind you. Amazing difference, even with this half assed test. The 4 ohm speakers sap the power. But it proves a point. Maybe all some of us want is a simple speaker / tweet replacement and a small amp. I'm not into boom blasting and prefer true sound ... and I'm a cheap SOB, so this seems a good solution. When I get the bucks to do this I'll post the results.

And for those who are surprised, yes, the Ford Mach 460 is excellent. Not perfect, but probably the best stock system I've ever heard. And I'm in the recording industry so I DO know what sounds good. Everyone has a different ear though.

Thanks for the ideas gang.

TLGator

FWIW - youngmic, I agree with Jimemotumbo. And I can only smirk at your claim that anyone who disagrees with you doesn't know what they're talking about. Sorry, but that line of reasoning is the lamest, most juvenile, inflammatory, and witless way to have a discussion. It's the sort of tactic one often hears extreme liberals and conservatives say to each other in the heat of the argument - if you disagree with me it just proves you don't know what you're talking about.

I'm neither a musician nor do I generally listen to bluegrass, although I have enjoyed it live. I do listen to most every other type of music you mentioned and have done so on a wide variety of high-end home and car audio equipment for many, many years.

I love my TL, but I too find the audio system to be "not all that and a bag of chips." Oh, it's pretty good, all right, and yes, it's darned good for stock equipment. But I've heard the Levinson system in several different Lexuses (Lexi?) and I think it's consistently better. I also think that many carefully-selected moderately-priced aftermarket systems blow away the TL's stock stuff.

Since I leased my car I don't have the option of changing the system (at least, not without excess hassle), but for those who bought, I can certainly see making several changes. For a start, the speakers are rather sub-par IMO.

I guess I'm disappointed in the audio not because it's bad - it certainly isn't bad - but because all the Acura hype led me to think it would be at least as good as the Levinson, if not substantially better. IMO, not so.

You're entitled to disagree and I promise I won't say you don't know what you're talking about.

youngmic

Wow. I felt strongly so I said it in a strong way. I did say that it was opinion though. And you are certainly entitled to yours as well. Ultimately, maintaining true objectivity in the evaluation of an audio system is very difficult, if possible at all. So subjective opinions they remain.

Then again, I did call for flames...

Vegas_TL04

Well, IMHO the best stock sound system in a car right now besides the Maybach is the LOGIC 7 in the 745i (its a 3K option). It sound frickin incredible. Both my parents each have a new LS430 and think their Levinson's are the sh!t...but the LOGIC 7 blows em away. It has a sub under each seat for crying out loud, and like 500watts. It really does kick, I luv listening to it in my 7. When I get into the TL tho, it sounds really underpowered. But, for a 35K car, it is pretty damn good IMHO. It just needs a little more power and bass.

ac-attack

there is no way the acura tl's sound system is the best on the market. it doent even come close im waiting for my jl components to come in and take out this horrible set up acura left us with. lexus sound system is way better than the els beyound compare