N.I.toHTown

I normally do all my own oil changes with fully synthetic PP and OEM filters. My local firestone just sent me a coupon for a free oil change but they wont use Full Synthetic, they will just use Synthetic Blend. They swore up and down it would not be bad for the car at all.

I REALLY need the oil change and was wondering if i should just go for it for FREE, or am i just being stupid by breaking with my routine?

I also want to add seafoam to the crankcase before the change too, but since im a bit over the scheduled maintenance i dunno if i should hold off until my next change so that i dont overload the already struggling filter. Any thoughts?

Izzy-Type-S

iTrader: (1)

You always do synthetic? I've been wanting to but the dealer told me regular oil is fine. One of my first cars, a Pontiac Grand Am GT always got synthetic & i got 175k out of it.

LessisBestmakingendsmeet

I'm wary of Jiffy Lubes, Firestones, etc.....

01tl4tl

agree on iffy about places like that- their goal is to find expensive things wrong with your car--perhaps tires or brakes at a firestone???

the engine doesnt care if you run plain semi or full- you can swap back and forth too

Seafoam - if your dipstick looks like sludge on it- install a new filter then do a 100 mile drive on seafoam in crankcase-change oil and filter

If normal dirty looking dipstick simply add 1/3 can and drive 30 miles/minutes then change while warm

BradE

It's not going to hurt the car.

The only reason I use synthetic is because it gets cold here during the winter, and synthetic flows better at lower temps.

Izzy-Type-S

iTrader: (1)

Yeah I know, it gets pretty cold here in Chicago too so maybe this next one shoud be synthetic for me, I'm at about 40% life.

01tl4tl

If you are concerned about flow rate at sub 32F temps- use a zero= 0W 20 for the winter
w actually means winter! and 1st number is viscosity at 32F

chaiwala

Most firestone shops use Kendall GT-1 semi-synthetic oil. It is by far one of the best synblend oils out there. Regardless one oil change with any oil and filter be that if it is the cheapest or not will not harm your TL in any way. See if they will let you watch the guy perform the oil change so that you may have peace of mind in knowing the guy changed both the oil and filter. Go for it! Heck its FREE!

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

Keyword: Free

Nothing is going to go bad.

TL black

nothing is ever free

RyanCHICL

iTrader: (1)

If you are referring to Pennzoil Platinum, I believe that is a blend as well.

03TL_S

go with it man. i bought my baby brand new, and the first oil change was done with a blend.

01tl4tl

understand that those offers are to get you into the shop- where many things will be found wrong with your car
Franchises have quotas on how many cars should get how much in upsale per day
Its a brutal business~

kendall GT1 and Castrol GTX are the same product
parts stores have package deals on 5 qts oil and filter plus container if you need- they even take the used oil back for free--actually its built into the cost of oil but its free now--
synthetics come in ok base level oil and better quality base oil

chaiwala

Are you sure? Last time I checked Kendall was made by conocco phillips and Castrol GTX is not. Castrol is also 100% conventional and Kendal-GT1 is a synthetic blend which can contain anywhere from 10-50% Group III(highly refined conventional)oil. Even if Kendall was completely conventional I would still choose it over GTX every day.

As for the lube shop trying to upsell you on other services when you get there, the power of NO is an amazing thing.

There is nothing free is correct because in the end you still have to pay uncle sam.

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

Of course its not "free", the whole purpose of it is too attract customers to use their service and to get people to bring in their vehicles to check up so they can fix them. Nonetheless, he is probably a customer of that shop for awhile now, or had his car fixed their before. But it is technically free. You will be charged nothing.

Also, they're a lot of free things in life, but they are usually hard to learn or find. Until you understand life and yourself, you won't find it!

LessisBestmakingendsmeet

exactly

01tl4tl

even the free oil change gets at least 2 bucks hazmat disposal fee and usually the tax on the oil and filter parts is yours too

for the 25 bucks to diy-and know its been done right to my specs--
no way do I let a shop that needs to make a certain amount of money every single day--thats in the thousands of dollars- just to keep the doors open,,,touch it look at it or drool anywhere near my baby~

I hate cars

It's not even a blend of synthetic and dino. It's a group III oil so legally it can be called "fully synthetic" just as many Mobil One products but it's a dino oil with zero PAO. If you want a "full synthetic", some Mobil One, most Amsoil, Redline, Eneos are true synthetics.

"Blends" are just marketing. Many "full synthetic" labled oils could also be called blends. It's a shame that marketing is allowed to trick consumers the way they do.

I hate cars

Actually, the "w" number is at -25 to -35 depending on the number. That's why people get confused. A 0w-40 will usually be thicker at 32F than a 10w-30 at 32F. It's not until the temps get real cold that the 0w starts to show it's superiority in cold flow.

01tl4tl

iirc i read the W really does stand for Winter and was the viscosity at 32F-/ 0C
dont know what range beyond that~

From that base, zero/0 -something would be good for super cold temps
and again as I understand it- there are additives to make the oil BEHAVE as if it were a 0 or 5 or 10 WHEN the temp is low enough
Otherwise the main body of oil- which is also not whats stated but what it `behaves` like measured at 200-220F normal oil operating temp in most cars--the 20 or 30 part of the oil- may be 25 with add ins

I also read the engineers at blackstone lab- with knowledge of many many oil test on file- they run plain ol dino oil in their cars--which is actually not from dinos but from plant material!
talk about mislabeling!!!

But free oil changes are come ons to get you in the door- where they have your car captive
Need I say more

01tl4tl

first rule of business Never give anything away free~~~~
upgrade maybe but dont give the store away!!!

Your car will need wipers or tires or the brakes are 20 percent and must be replaced today- needs alignment and fluid flush and whatever they buy cheap and resell high

I hate cars

You're right about everything but the temperature.

The nice thing about top end synthetics is they don't need the pour point depressants and viscosity index improvers to behave as a multi-grade. For instance, my old Amsoil ACD was a straight 30wt that acted as a 10w-30. Same with Redline. All of their street oils with the exception of the 0w-40 are actually straight weights that behave like multi weights but without the additives which take away from it's protection potential. My 5w-30 Redline that I'm using right not is actually a mono grade 30wt oil so I get the best of all worlds, the superior sheer protection, lubricity, and high HTHS of a straight weight and the cold flow of a 5w-30.

I've posted a thread from the old bobistheoilguy, back when there were people that knew what they were talking about over there where an entire dyno team ran nothing but Redline in their personal cars after seeing engines run hard on the dyno for hundreds of hours and then torn down. I know I sound like a Redline salesman but after realizing it's a no compromise oil with the only downside being price, it's the only thing I would run in my stock daily driver TL to my GN.

I like the bit about dino oil too. I've heard plants, namely sea plants but definitely not dinosaurs lol.

RyanCHICL

iTrader: (1)

I truly think Redline is a great oil and I will probably try it out my next oil change. But it isn't API certified, does that concern you?

I hate cars

Not at all. The reason it's not certified is it contains more than the allowable anti wear additive ZDDP. Limits were put into place early for catalyst longevity. In a way, you could say it's a good thing it's not certified. Study after study has never proven that ZDDP in a healthy engine affects catalytic convertor life.

chaiwala

From what I have read so far in your posts, it makes me believe that you know what you are talking about but I have had real life experience seeing side by side, red line and Royal Purple on a dyno and Royal Purple outperformed Red Line in every test. When we tore the engine down we found a lot of cam lobe wear, which we termed pitting. After a lot of research and talking to Red Line R&D department we came to the conclusion that the high amounts of molybdenum found in Red Line oil was the culprit of the pitting. Obviously Red Line chooses to not admit it but test after test proved to us that it is indeed the case. Suffice to say when we ran used oil analysis, red line always showed higher wear than Royal Purple. I would use Royal Purple over Red Line anyday, everyday. I will believe my two eyeballs over anything I read on the internet.

01tl4tl

I like the penz plat ads so thats whats in my car~
squishing molecules and returning to shape-cool...and on sale lol

I hate cars

I've seen the exact opposite. Was it a roller or flat tappet setup? Pitting is usually from chemical wear. Too much of a good thing with a roller setup can cause the roller to slide on the cam instead of rolling but it's rare.

Royal Purple shears like crazy according to UOAs. I put absolutely no weight in UOAs and wear metals. Just the fact that Redline cleans up oxidation shows tons of wear metals which are not in fact wear.

In fact, several guys I know personally had issues running Royal Purple in their 800hp to 1,200hp LT1 and LS1 engines. Redline cured the wear issues most notably in the rod bearings and ring/cylinder wear. The HTHS just isn't high enough for a serious engine. I'm sure it will do ok in medium duty 400hp street car but push the power levels and it's let several local people down. Many had better results on cheap dino oil.

I've seen 40,000 mile race engines that looked like new, most notably the ringland area. It was weird to see no carbon between the first and second rings, something I had never seen before on any engine from race to bone stock.

IMO, any hp gains seen on the dyno from one oil to another of the same weight are ALWAYS within the noise level. You can't say one oil is better because it produced 3 more hp, that's within the error range of the dyno. Besides, an oil is there to protect and slow the wear of an engine, not to try and pull a couple extra hp out of it.

I agree that you should always believe what you see in real life over what you read on the internet, that includes what I say but I don't know the details of your tests and if a metallurgy test was performed on the cams to determine if they were of the correct hardness or a host of other details. There are just too many variables to say Redline causes cam pitting. If it were a known issue, it would be all over the internet since as you know negative results spread very quickly.

More details would be nice on the conditions and what type of engines were run.

I hate cars

The only thing I can make of that is they're referring to viscosity index improvers in very layman's' terms.

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

I've NEVER used synthetic oil. You'll be fine. It's free, and you can even watch them changing the oil.

01tl4tl

you can watch,,, but do they torque the drain bolt to 29 ft lbs and NO more
and prefill the oil filter so there is no delay in getting oil pressure on startup- the most critical wear time!

I dont even trust those type guys to know how to properly torque wheels~
Yes its just an oil change- but the pan drain bolt can get stripped out for next time or the filter impossible to remove etc

Even when paying I would fear those shops ( Im a retired tech) so ~free~ is nerve racking IMO.

to each his own- you're young- learn as we did

chaiwala

From the top of my memory one was a Ford Mustang and the other was a Dodge Challenger. Both were pretty new, less than 2000 miles or less on both. Yes, I agree on your assertion as to rollers sliding on a cam but I think one of the reasons why Red Line doesn't work is because they don't have a "balance" of metals. For instance, they have tons of ZDDP in their oil to even decrease wear on a flat tappet engines but they insist on loading the oil with Moly too. Why? We asked that question to Red Line R&D and they were not able to answer that question.

Those have been the two latest vehicles but I have had high end race cars come in and same problem. The disturbing part about these cars are that they have had red line in their vehicles for only 3 or 4 oci's and we see pitting. Most of the cars we deal with are performance cars and we tell all our customers to use Royal Purple.

I have seen Royal Purple shear and it is a valid concern but when associate the shearing with low wear it is a mute point to us. We don't use UOA's to determine wear, we use UOA's with tear downs to determine how an oil does for that PARTICULAR vehicle. Red Line is probably by far the most shear stable oil we have dealt with, it keeps on taking abuse and never thin out but when paired with UOA's and tear downs and amount of pitting we see in vehicles after only a few runs, we will NEVER recommend it.

Don't get me wrong, we have engines that don't respond to Royal Purple too where its just not great for a particular engine, so then we go to other oils like Amsoil, Lubro moly and Eneos and even Mobil 1.

Sorry can't give you specific details as we go thru cars fast since most of them are for racing purposes.

I hate cars

It would be good to have more than two data points in order to condemn the oil. The ones I've opened up and it's been many of them have always amazed me. I know what to expect but I'm still surprised when I see the results.

Cam pitting is usually from chemical wear. As you know, moly in small amounts is for that type of protection. In large amounts seen in Redline it's for both corrosion protection and friction reduction. On top of that, the large amounts of ZDDP will protect the cams more than any other additive.

I fully agree with your choice to use teardowns and not solely UOAs for determining wear.

Actually, my computer is so infected by some virus, I'm going to have to get back to you. It's taken 30 minutes to type this much. Sorry.

N.I.toHTown

Just to let everyone know, i went ahead with the free oil change, and while i don't know it they torqued the bolt exactly or prefilled the filter, it was COMPLETELY FREE. They did not suggest any more work, not even my wipers (which i KNOW need changed). While i wont pay them to do what i happily do myself, i just thought i would counter the pessimism that had been floating around saying nothing is ever free. It was just a new neighbor discount.

So if you are in a pinch like i was dont always discount an option which can help you out.

Also thats for letting me know about Pennzoil Platinum, next time i will maybe put something else in, but it often is the Oil and Filter deals at the local autozone. (This month Castrol + Mobil One filter for $28)

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

I use Castrol 5W-20 Synthetic blend with O.E filter which gets changed every 2,800 or less with the MID reading 50-40% left. Nothing wrong with it as long as you don't go over the mileage. Glad they kept their word and did it for free.

LessisBestmakingendsmeet

Funny just had a bud who's wife got ripped off at Jiffy Lube....taking them to court...