PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

....Acura owners' buyers' remorse... such a shame (most people that COULD afford lexus' WOULD buy lexus')

2004 TL

Yes you could be right, but I doubt the 0-60 would be vastly improved since 289 whp gets me limited traction to 45 mph. Only after 45 mph would increased hp make any difference, and even if I could have another 100 whp, I would not really use it without slicks. Again, we can't debate the physics issue, and the last time I checked those laws were not changed. The higher the whp beyond a certain point, which I think I am at, the harder it is to modulate the throttle to limit wheel spin, and maximize thrust to the ground. Prior to 45 mph, rwd would help with the weight transfer and resulting added traction. After 45 mph, the mechanical traction and weight difference becomes negligable betwen fwd and rwd as far as getting the power to the ground. If we were to "do" the mods and even add a supercharger to boot on the Type S, I think that the car would be more difficult to drive daily, much less on the track, as well as be only a little quicker in the quarter mile. Would it really matter if we could get into the high 12s at 110 mph, if we traded driveability? How would that car work out in the snow? Poorly I'm sure. Thus I offer the following: 289 whp works out to roughly 340 crank hp (assuming a 15% drive train loss), I think that is sufficient don't you think? If I simply leave the VSA on and jump on the gas, I get to 60 mph in 5.5 seconds right now. If I turn it off and modulate the throttle manually, I get to 5.24 - 5.30 on the way to 60 mph, which takes some practice to get it right. Would spending another $2500 on a super charger be worth it if the resulting hp went up in wheel spin? No. This is why I stand behind my comments. Buy a standard TL and get my mods. Its about $2000 installed for all of it. If the car is sold at full retail (I can't imagine anyone buying at full retail), and you add the $2000 of mods, you get a faster more entertaining car to drive everyday than a Type S. I am not trying to split hairs on this, but I could easily afford an SL550 which I have driven for several weeks on loan from a friend. It is a lovely car, and makes me feel like a rock star, but I am not goinng to part with some of my retirement funds to buy a car for 3 times as much as a TL. If my TL got beat up in a parking lot or garage, I would be irritated and fix the damage. If my car was an SL550, I would be out with guns blazing looking for the varmin! I don't want to worry about my wheels, and frankly if the car were stolen or destroyed, I would get another one (non Type S).

Alright I'm done. Time to go back to bed since it is 4am on Christmas Day.

BraveDemon

Having test driven an 07 TL-S, an 06 IS350 and an 06 G35 Coupe (i know it's not the same as a sedan), I think that the mag got it dead on.

The IS350 is a beast, and even if the TL-S can out handle the IS350 in lane changing/slalom or whatever, two solid facts keep it above the TL: 1. a freaking powerful engine that blows away the revised j35 engine in the New TL-S; and 2. RWD. Yes it's pretty damn expensive considering that it's a subcompact car (the IS350 if you guys ever get to drive one, is super small... like uncomfortably small if you have to seat people in the back), yes it's a bit overpriced, yes some might not like how it looks (I personally think the older Altezzas looked better) but hey, I'll say this: Obviously Lexus can charge that much for a small car that may not be attractive to some, and still sell a shit load of them. Here in Irvine, I see about a dozen IS350's a day. And no they're not chick cars - if you wanna talk chick cars, I see more moms here in the O.C. driving 3rd gen TL's while most men here drive Benz's, BMW's and Lexus'.

Now, As for the TL drivers supporting the rating of the TL-S coming in second over the G35; note the 07 TL-S is not the same breed as an 07 TL. Go test drive an 07 TL-S 6 speed; they're fast and in my opinion are well worth the extra $. Example: when I went in to buy a TL in 2002, I test drove both a TL-P and a TL-S. I got the TL-S and it cost me a little more; are they virtually the same car? Yeah, on the inside maybe. But in terms of power? No freaking way. The previous gen TL-S was far more powerful than the TL-P, and the 07 TL-S is a hell of alot more powerful than the 3rd gen TL.

So to those 3rd Gen TL-S owners. Bravo to you. Your car is absolutley wonderful and apparantly deserved to be over the G35 sedan. (I can't say the same about the coupe though, because in terms of straight handling/driving the G35 Coupe was very enjoyable). I'm gonna be in the market for a new car soon; in about a year or so and i'm starting to look at new cars now.

I don't think I'll be getting a new TL-S since the redesign is so close. Hell. I've learned my lesson already; I bought an 03 TL-S and then 6 months later they released the completely redesigned 3rd gen. And unless the next TL is offered as a RWD, I doubt I'll be getting that as well. And well, to be quite honest, Lexus is starting to look really appealing right now. Especially with the new IS coupes coming out in 2008/2009. Who knows though, maybe the 2009 TL will offer SH-AWD like the current RL and won't be too damn expensive (RL is.. freaking expensive). If that's the case, I'll gladly throw my money at Acura after I finish law school in a year.

Oh yeah, and as for all the arguing over interior.. eh. It might be just me, but I don't care as much for interior so long as everything is functional and not absolutely hideous. (Like Hyundai level) When it comes down to it, I like how a car drives and handles. Shit, my STI interior was crappy compared to the current TL, but it was far more enjoyable to drive.

Everyone is entitled to like their cars, everyone is entitled to hate other cars. But true car enthusiasts will remain objective.

simont53

This is getting a little extreme, I for one purchased my Type S for more than just performance, the seats are in a different league, the nav much improved, the paddle shifting with modified shift points a blast, the throttle respnse much quicker,
if i wanted a race car i would have bought a STI or a Evo but I didnt,
I could put pro cats on my S or my A spec 05 but I need the warranty,

The S is a suprisingly fast luxury vehicle that has been refined in just about every area from my 05 (which I still have).

Most giving their "expert" opinion on the Type S are either doing it based on one test drive or on paper calculations (how can you say your car is a more entertaining daily driver unless you have driven the type S daily?)......I can tell you this, when I get back in my 05 A spec it is like a different vehicle nowhere near as fast or as refined, to the point that I cant find any mods that will improve the type S substantially.

I am glad you are happy with your mods and paper comparison...just dont buy a Type S.

kobi2002

First off the snow talk makes no sense because you will not be flooring it in the snow. Second I just sold my integra grs turbo that made 425 on low boost. i'm not saying that front wheel is better than rear but if you get the right suspention, lsd and tire and rim size, you can hang with a rwd. For a production can the tl is at it's limits for hp, but when you mod you car, that gets thrown out the window. When every gear you put your car into and you loose traction no matter what speed you are going then you have meet the limits of fwd. 425 to the wheels and got about 5 on the 0-60 if I can remember, but the quartermile high 11's low 12's. So a type s modded like you would beat your car in the 1320. if you want to talk about wheel spin, 1,2,and part of 3 was no traction for my integra on low boost if i floored it like a maniac but that is why you learn to drive your car.

All the talk about torque steer on this Tl makes me laugh sometimes because most of you never had a wheel yank out your hand when you floored it.

kobi2002

I did miss the part you said 0-60 would not be better, and yes it may not be. but the overall pic is that the 1320 the type s would def win.

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

Doesn't "easily afford" .. mean that if you COULD easily afford a car, you wouldn't HAVE to part with a significant part of your retirement fund-age... rather, since you could EASILY afford it, it would be a drop in the bucket, and you would do it in a heartbeat b/c .. well, because you CAN.

I think MANY members of this forum could SWING an SL550 .. but not many could EASILY AFFORD one.

2004 TL

I think that you are missing the point. I am not saying I would raid my retirement fund to pay for it. I was simply trying to make a simple statement that some people trade retirement investing for frivolous purchases to satisfy immediate gratification needs.

In regards to the other members, I can't comment about thier relative ability to afford a $1000 per month lease or $2000 per month finance of any car. Lets stay focussed on the topic if you don't mind.

Frankly, there are two groups of the wealthy. One group shows very little of what they can afford by "flying under the radar" (that fits my personality), and others that show it off.

2004 TL

You are probably right.

pohljm

Are you running AT or MT?

2004 TL

MT

JAB00

I love my TL. I'm no mechanic, race car driver nor do I work for a car mag. I get up every morning go to work (8miles away). First I put the seat warmers (high) the temp to a nice balmy 76, maybe listen to some NPR or if I feel a bit peppy, hook up the good ole iPOD and off to work. It takes me about 12-15mins to get to work then I park the car for the next 10-12hrs. I go through this routine 6days a week.

On my days off I may get a little adventurous and overtake granpa/grandma (typically in a buick) while driving on the highway. But for the most part my days off consists of going to the grocery store, dry cleaner, girl friends, or movies/mall. I can't say that I've ever pushed the car to close to it's limit. I probably only need 180-200hp. However, to me it's just an overall enjoyable car.

It's like anything out there (TV, phones, computers) one can go mad comparing different specs to anoint the best. Bottom line is if the car suits one's needs and it's within their means then it's a good buy.

meowCat

Are you my Mommy?


I post anything I want to say. I will say it more if you don't like it. How about that.


Not having Manual Tranny on the Lexus IS350 is a big let down. You just can't get best lap times with the automatic tranny. Such high powered little Lexus not having MT is really... awkward.

The Lexus is known to have "soft" ride, which is another problem for being in the sport segment. Tight handling, stiff ride is a must. Dang.. my '06 TL MT is soooo tight and has good stiff ride. The car responded so well at 100+ mph when turning quickly. I was amazed.

meowCat

Don't get me wrong though. I do not hate Lexus IS350. I'm sure the build quality is very nice. My Mom owns a 2003 Lexus SC430. It's uber nice.

pimpin-tl

Actually a lot of automatics these days, especially the 6-AT of the IS350, can and will be faster than a manual tranny car. They shift so fast, so precise, that a manual driver car would have a hard time shifting as fast as the auto. Reason why the G35 Sedan auto/6mt and fbodys are not any faster than the other.

You do however have more control over the car with a manual.

meowCat

pimpin-tl, it's not just the stand still acceleration, but in the track!! The AT can't *predict* in what gear should be engaged to before exiting out of the corner. Only the human brain (and maybe animals, but I doubt it) can do this. This is why you just simply can't beat MT in the track. Not only the track.... but even on the public highway/streets, the AT can't predict.. it only responds quickly after you press the gas pedal.


Why do you think those BTCC or any other touring race cars use 6MT and not 6AT? It's the ultimate word..... control and prediction by human brain.

meowCat

So, don't give me that 6AT crap.... it doesn't mean anything.

pimpin-tl

meow, I have raced on the track and an Instructor at MSR. I would take a IS350 auto with paddle shifters over my Manual 6mt G35 anyday. With a shift down of the paddle you can select whatever gear you wish to be in. Without the jerkyness of the car when downshifting or concentrating on heal-toe method for a smooth downshift, you just flick the paddles and your in the gear instatly you want.

No, actually, why do you think most drag racers with high powered cars usually use autos for more consistant times?

6AT has tighter gear ratios than a 5AT. So normally it will have a better acceleration curve.

Meow, I suggest stop before you really make yourself look any worse.

extremetls

meows stupidity ceases to amaze me

simont53

I agree evidently he has not driven the new age of shiftable autos...

twinair

of course I love the TL. I do admit that the IS350 is badass!! and just wait for the IS500...oh man!!! can't wait for the 08-09 TL. will probably trade in my 06 TL

drdug27

too bad every car couldn't have a clutch option. i cannot drive automatics i thought R ment road and D ment dirt.

meowCat

I have. Tried it and the response time sucks. I wouldn't recommend it. 6spd MT is much better.

meowCat

You "have" raced on the track, but you "ain't" a racer. You don't do it for a living. Just because you raced in the track doesn't mean jack.


for DRAG RACING yea.... Just sit and go.

If you really think the paddle shifters on the Auto tranny is really that good then don't really know about racing. No... I'm not talking about the stupid drag racing. I'm talking tracks with curves and hair pins. You know... the "real" tracks.

Duh!!! Now you know? Of course the 6AT has the shorter gears.... not "tighter" . Use the right terminology if you want to make professional statements. SHORT gears... not "tight".

You completely ignored what I said about the "prediction" when I gave you a speech. Are you scared? Like chicken? What are you hiding for? You can't say anything about it because the Auto tranny can't do it. Paddle shifters... pffffffffffff... Get real, please.

neuronbob

meowcat, please think before you post and keep it civil. Pimpin-tl is just trying to make a reasonable point here, and I agree with him.

meowCat

Okay okay okay RWD rocks.... ya happy now.

pimpin-tl

You know, all your posts are nothing more than negative and getting really personal. How your calling names like chicken, etc. I am surprised I am holding myself back from you!

All I will say once you actually RACE on a REAL track, come back and lets talk. It is obvious you have never done it.

Taken about 1.5 years ago.

meowCat

pimpin-tl,

Is that you in the car? Lookin pretty good.

meowCat

pimpin-tl, just a question, is that auto or MT.

Hugh9269

There is enough bashing on this thread... Just a note, most people who can afford a Acura, can afford a Lexus.. If I was looking at a Lexus, I would just buy a BMW for the price...

pimpin-tl

Yes that is me, since no one else drives my car like that. And it was a MT.

knight rider

iTrader: (1)

Good find!

IS350 = girl car?

Anyway... The TL-S interior is better than the IS350 IMO. I don't even like the TL but everytime I sit in one it makes me forget what the outside looks like.

When I sat in an IS350 it made me forget how nice it looked on the outside (kinda like the 3 series Beemer)

The G car looks great. but the interior is cheap looking.

None of these cars can hold a candle to the 335

bmaczo6

iTrader: (1)

It is better that people think you are a fool than to open your mouth and prove it.

vincethe1

guys, stop asking the tl to become rwd, damn it it sells like that because it's the most awesome front driver out there...there is tons of advantages of a fwd car that you guys just ignore, if honda would listen to you guys they would make sales with that of an nsx, because that was the car that every1 drools about but noone buys......and another thing is, where would someone go if they want a vs luxury/sport sedan of high class that is fwd, and has big back seats and a big trunk? there just needs to be a car like the fwd TL, and that's why it sells more than the other 2....it's just an amazing chassis with fwd which to some of you that think are michael schumahers think it's the most boring grandma drive out there, get serious, it's a true performance vehicle and just cuz u all like it up the u kno what better because u grew up on ppl like yourselves dissing fwd however much they possibly can don't mean it's a bad configuration at all, think about it, the only reason you want rwd is because you can do donuts real easy, the rest of the BS about handling and understeer is just your dream of being a professional race driver...there just needs to be a MAD FWD sport sedan, ACURA PLEASE DON"T RUIN IT for 2009!!!!!!

neuronbob

vincethe1, you hit the point of this thread right on the head. I only disagree with Acura changing drivetrain. If they can find a way to reduce the weight penalty for adding SH-AWD, I think they should at least offer that as an option. I really doubt they will go RWD simply for cost reasons, and because they are selling boatloads of FWD TLs.

The TL is one of the best performing FWD cars out there. As I said earlier, it performs so well that it is constantly being tested against the RWD competition and holding its own. Is RWD better for sporty handling? Duh, yes! Even a guy who knows as little as I do about drivetrain dynamics understands that. Is AWD better for handling? As an RL owner, I can say "yes", though the RL is NO TL. Is there torque steer? Well, yeah! So what? But there are indeed advantages to FWD for consumers, including holding down the cost of the car, better traction during winter than RWD, and others.

Anyway, I would love to have an RL, TL AND a G35 (coupe) in my garage. (Actually, I do have a TL in my garage today as I've got a loaner '06 while a rearview camera is being installed in my RL. )

So everybody go outside and drive your TLs, please. I plan to!

vincethe1

no offence, but are you in the passenger seat because the driver looks a lot like a woman from the shot....seriously

pohljm

Ummmmm...................is there a setting that will remove all of meowcat's threads from my view? I am not sure I can continue to have this forum polluted with such uneducated and rediculous assertions. Do all of us a favor and go and drive a VW GTI or an Audi A3 equipped with a DSG and then come back and tell us how your so sorry that you were completely wrong about "automatic" gearboxes. Until then please refrain from discussing topics that you know little about. And from what I have read that is just one of several.

I wont even spend the time to find your most "interesting" post about the IS having to much HP for a rear driver to be safe. After that post I had been reading yours just for some comical relief, but now they are so absurd that I would love to have them just automatically deleted, if possible, from my view.

Wyman

This was a good thread. I'm very intersted in how the car mag's will rate these car's.
Can we restart it and block meowcat?

meowCat

Real wheel drives, bad for winter and rainy conditons. It's dangerous for cars with a lot of power on the rear wheels. This applies to Lexus, Infiniti, any cars with RWD. People drive in the rain.. and snow, you know that, right? I saw many times when the BMW 3 seris got stuck in the turning lane because it couldn't accelerate. The real wheels kept spinning but ain't going anywhere.

pimpin-tl

That is definitely not a girl figure and that is me. Had my friend in the passenger seat. I can't even tell in that picture so I am not sure how you can. lol.