Intox1221

Hey all, just wondering how many of you, whether an auto or 6MT owners use engine braking. I have an automatic and usually on a highway, when i need to adjust my speed jus a tad bit without hitting the brakes and alerting the drivers behind me for no reason, just shift to L, which automatically shifts the gear down to the lowest permitting by the car. It seems to work pretty nicely. Does it matter how often this should be used, any ramifications?

oneilc

I use the SS to engine break from time to time as well. Nothing major, just a little extra breaking power. I don't think this would hurt the engine. I'm curious to see what people have to say on this one.

cpurick

I brake with SS all the time. I've been engine-braking my automatic transmissions for about ten years, including a '00 Ford Explorer. The Explorer had an overdrive button at the end of the column-mounted shifter, and I would just tap that to downshift into 4th.

I don't use L because it shifts pretty abruptly -- esp. 1st. In traffic, I routinely cancel cruise, pop into SS and downshift twice, and then put it back into drive before it's finished slowing down. In this way, I can shed 10-20mph in just a few seconds without hitting my brakes or even moving my feet. My passengers are hardly aware that I'm working the shifter.

Brokedoc

Engine braking on an Auto is absurd! The cost of repairing an auto tranny or replacing the torque converter doesn't justify saving the brakes. Replacing brake pads a few thousand miles earlier is so cheap as to almost be a non-issue.

OTOH, the clutch pad on a manual tranny is a simple thing to replace and is designed to support engine braking without extensive wear.

Salut

I see your point...

But is it in fact true thought that engine braking an automatic is harmfull to the tranny?

I don't know, that is a question...

I usually always drive sticks (as mentioned in many other posts)...

With the couple automatics I had (80s S10 Blazer and 2001 Buick Lesabre) I always used the gears to "downshit" "trans-brake" or whatever you want to call it...

I never found this to be a problem...

cpurick

Calling engine braking "absurd" is a bit of a stretch. As the term implies, the lion's share of the load is imposed on the engine; not the transmission.

The transmission is really only taxed by the initial downshift. A firm shift does not necessarily imply more wear on clutch packs and bands than the wear caused by automatic shifing. In fact, I'm pretty sure some of the clutches used during engine braking are dedicated for that very purpose, which is why you don't get a braking effect during automatic downshifting as you coast in gear.

MyJohnson

I was listening to "Click and Clack" one day and this very question was asked (about Manuals, not automatics). Their thoughts are that its so cheap and easy to change brakes and you don't want to risk damage to engine, transmission or clutch that you should just brake and not 'downshift' or 'engine brake' to slow down. I usually put it in neutral and brake, but, on occasion, I admit that I downshift and let the engine rev to slow down. I seem to do it less and less now.

04acura tl

If I want to slow down with out the brake light coming on I will use the e-brake. I also hit N when coming up to a light pretty often and just use the brakes. The only time I do any down shifting is when I am driving agressively. I don't supose I am worried about the trans I will probably trade this car within 3 or 4 years anyway!

SouthernBoy

If you downshift correctly with a manual transmission, there is virtually no wear on the clutch assembly.. certainly a heck of a lot less than when starting out in first gear from a stop on a level piece of road.

PoochaKannInc

You use the e-brake to slow down? Unbelievable. I haven't used the e-brake while driving since I was in high school.

I agree with SouthernBoy, but if it is a situation that needs me to brake fast, I just brake and disengage the clutch to pop it in neutral towards the end of my braking. Its always safer to be in gear while moving rather than just coasting in case an emergency manuever is required.

TheOne305

burma

IMO, engine braking is a useless exercise with ANY transmission, but even more so on an automatic. Perhaps someone can enlightne me as to the point? I can understand it if you have a semi where the brakes would catch fire and not be able to stop you, in which case engine braking and downshifting is required, but I don't understand why people do it in passenger cars. Unless it's strictly for the "fun" of downshifting or in the case of an automatic, pretending to be driving a manual.

My TL is a 6MT and I NEVER engine brake in it, just as I never did in any of my cars with or without manual trannies. If I need to get into a gear I'm already there.

04acura tl

I said if I dont want the brake lights to come on I use the e-brake ....which is a very very rare thing.....

oneilc

You shouldn't use the ebrake like that. It's dangerous and you might hurt yourself. The ebrake is a set of brakes (drum I believe) attached to the rear axle. Locking out the rear tires is definitely a bad thing. If you want to slow down without braking, downshift a gear. If you're on the highway going 80 and you put it into 4th, you will slow down just as much and you won't be damaging anything.

Slava

I downshift on my AT all the time. Sometimes it is to help with breaking, more often it is to provide better gearing so I can pass other cars faster. I see no problems with using SS for either of these purposes, after all it IS what it was designed for.

P.S.
My cousin who is driving a '96 Celica with MT now has 170,000 miles on it and has not changed brakes even ONCE. Now that is some nice engine breaking!!

gizzsdad

Actually guys, I believe our cars are'nt considered to have e'brakes anymore. They are parking brakes now - not intended to slow the car unless necessary because of catastrophic brake failure. Just my .02

oneilc

You're probably right on the money.

Slava

Anyone seen Ronin and how they used emergency breaks to add superior cornering ability to their Pegiouts and an Audi S8? I wonder if we could do that in our TLs

PoochaKannInc

Of course. That's exactly what I did in high school. It doesn't add "superior cornering ability" it just allows the back end to unload enough to rotate you around a corner.

When I started paying for my cars, I began to realize I was a dumbass. You are killing your car for no real rhyme or reason.

jdb8805

The TLs MID will "scold" you if you use the E-brake while moving at more than a slow roll.

It will beep and read "RELEASE PARKING BRAKE" in orange letters.

EDIT: This may only happen if auto tranny is in "D"

alvon

Same for the 6MT.

In my previous car (93 Volvo 850 GLT), the owners manual has a section on "breaking-in" the hand brake, by stopping the car with the hand brake for a few times from 30 MPH.

So I wonder if it is advisable to "break-in" the hand brake on the TL.

Road Rage

Other than descending a mountain grade where constant braking can overheat most stock brake systems, engine braking is not something i do, as the wear and tear on the tranny (especially a tranny with a History like the TL's) is riskier. Why? Because brake pads and a rotor or two now and then are far less costly than a tranny re-build.

SouthernBoy

To Road Rage;

Amen. Unless you have a manual. Then you're Ok.

burma

How so? And I still haven't seen anyone give a good reason for engine braking in a passenger car, where the brakes can stop you.

Going down a mountain or steep hill, is different IMO. There you just put in in a lower gear and go - I agree. But to constantly downshift from 6-1, 5-1, 4-1, 3-1, or 2-1, etc., etc. is useless and silly.

SouthernBoy

To burma;

Downshifting to a lower gear for a bit of engine braking is less injurious with a manual transmission. This assumes you know how to do it properly - rev-matching so that there is virtually zero stress and wear to the clutch assembly. But I do avoid downshifting when the engine will be turning quite a few RPMs going down a hill. That generates a lot of vacuum in the cylinders.

So I use my brakes most always for slowing or stopping the car and downshift when I need to.. not to be cool or because I think it looks or sounds cool. For normal driving, downshifting to me is just done like one might expect.. to get into a lower gear for efficient engine operation. I am definitely not one of those who will go from third at 3000 RPM to second at say, 4000 RPM just because I can.. unless I have a darned good reason and need to do so.

So you and I are not fair apart at all in our assessment here.. pretty close, actually.

Road Rage

Every time you engage the clutch, there is wear - every time. It is a just a matter of minimizing it. That is why clutches wear out before auto trannies do. I only downshift in the S2000 for power, or where the road demands it - I never routinely downshift through the gears when stopping, for the reason already described.

SouthernBoy

To Road Rage;

That's why I didn't say no wear.. only virtually zero wear. Since it would be next to impossible to manage a 100% direct meshing of the clutch disk to the pressure plate and flywheel, your statement is correct. But with proper technique, you can get pretty close to that zero mark.

KawBoy

You can downshift as much as you want with either AT or MT. Downshifting will not submit a load to the transmission greater than what it takes during upshifting. It is just a matter of driving style. I do it on everyday basis.

jackabyte

I don' t understand when someone says they only downshift when they absolutely have to.
What do you do when you need to make a turn at the intersection and say your going 35MPH in 3rd gear and need to slow down to 20mph in 2nd gear to make a gentle turn or how about when you're cruising the highway doing 65MPH in 6th and the traffic slows down to 45 at which point you should be in 4th or 5th otherwise you lug the engine. Pardon my ignorance just trying to learn, maybe all these years I've been doing it wrong.

utvol9903

When I had my manual 97 cl I hardly ever used the engine to break. IF i am coming up to a light I usually just throw it into neutral and cruise to the light and use the brakes if necessary and now that I have an auto tl-s i dont think i will use anything but the breaks.

SouthernBoy

To jackabyte;

Your question is your answer. In other words, that's a need to downshift.

Teh Jatt

i use SS to engine brake