Modeler

There's a big article in the business section of the Washington Post today devoted to SACD and DVD-A formats. Most of the content is actually related to DVD-A, because RIAA tracks sales of DVD-A, but not SACD.

Couple notable quotes:

"During the six-month period ending in June 2003, only 100,000 DVD-A discs were sold, compared with 245 million CDs."

"Even traditional vinyl records outsold DVD-A - by a factor of six to one"
:lol1:

"Rather than growing, sales of DVD-Audio discs are actually down from the same period a year ago"

You know, it would really suck to see DVD-A disappear as a commercial format a year or two from now. Imagine selling your car 3-5 years from now and buyers asking "what's DVD-A"?

VTEC=happiness

I don't see how the popularity, or lack thereof, of the DVD A format is a big deal. It is simply a bonus feature that is avaiable to those who wish to exploit it. Also, given that this is a technologoy that has not been used in cars up until this point, is it fair to assume that the popularity may increase as it is placed into mare cars (given that more car manuf. will include in their vehicles)?

Modeler

I would hope so. So far I haven't bought a single DVD-A disc. I went to Best Buy that has a separate section of DVD-As and tried to find something to buy.

Now, I strongly believe that all this "remastering" from 2 channel original recording to 5.1 channels is a big rip-off. I found one disc that I liked, that was not "remastered", but was recorded in 5.1: Eagles Hell Freezes Over live performance. But they wanted $22 for it! I've never paid more than $12 for a CD and never will.

acuraddict

Dulnev, are you just determined to see how many ignorant comments you can make on this website? I'm not going to waste my time explaining the difference between DVD A and CD sound.

If you want to experience a DVD-A that is worth owning, go get Eagles Hotel California or Fleetwood Mac Rumours or Yes Fragile. Other than that, you might want to READ about DVD-A technology so you'll know what your talking about.

organa7

I also believe that DVD-A will not make it. Simply because in a time where the technology is definatly going towards MP3s, which is usually even less quality than CD's it shows that People care more about ease of use and portability than sound quality. The one thing though that I like about have the DVD-A in the TL is that because it is such a higher quality audio, they spent time working on the sound system, and hopefully it will sound good and last a while, unlike most standard car stereos.

RJC RSX

could this be next? http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=0...id=187&tid=188

Modeler

Then do me a big favor and shut the f*** up? :bigun2:

Just assume from this point on that every post that I make will contain an "ignorant comment" and skip it, Ok? You're a complete moron who takes things too personally and I don't wish to discuss ANYTHING with you. Save yourself and me some time and aggravation and pretend I'm not here...

acuraddict

No

frqwntbyr

If I knew it would die w/in a few years, I'd stock up and be satisfied. I'm still listening to stuff I listened to 30 years ago, so I can make do with less than a couple of hundered offerings.

sfintel

This is definately not it. The 'Intel High Definition Audio' is a description of the hardware Intel will be including in future chips. Poorly named, if you ask me.

RJC RSX

hehe, i thought it might just be computer related

DavidNJ

DVD-A goes nowhere until someone has a player. How many $79 DVD players do DVD-A? Any? How may do MP3? Do any not do MP3?

The Acura is the first car with DVD-A. Virtually no aftermarket players. Maybe the Lexus in ''06? Unless some has equipment to listen to it...it goes nowhere.

Jss1

What after market players do you mean? I have a $50 Citizen DVD and all my DVD-A's play on it (including 2 DTS ones as the player has DTS) as well as MP3's video cd's etc..

Cheaha

I have been tracking DVD-A sales in my area myself. I have found that more and more people are leaning toward them simply because they can play the discs in the DVD players they already own. SACD does sound fantastic, but the barriors to entry are just too high among the masses.

I think you will find that DVD-A will make it if either of the two do. It is more likely that DVD-A will be picked up by the gear heads (us) early, and won't make a big splash until TV ad's start to appear. Just my two cents.

Z Factor

Acuraddict & Dulnev

Gentleman,

May I suggest you conduct this feud via the IM, or better yet, just avoid responding to each others posts until cooler heads prevail?

We all have a common bond here, so please focus on that rather than the differences you have with each other at the moment.

DavidNJ

DVD-A discs have a DVD-V track on them. The full width DVD-A track will only play on a unit that can read that format. Further evidence: Pioneer has two single disk DVD models, only the more expensive one plays DVD-A.

This confusion all goes further, most people would be hard pressed to tell the difference. You need a 5.1 system, correctly setup, for a true 5.1 to sound right. No one has that in their cars (at least no one without an '04 TL).

And how many home systems are really setup correctly? One in three? One in five? My home system goes through an automatic dance, sending signals out and listening to a mike in the listening position. As it goes though its dance, it adjusts delay and volume individually on a per speaker basis. I don't think I ever had by previous systems setup anywhere near as well.

LGG

One of my issues with the new TL from day 1 is how many dollars in it are associated with flash & trash electronics that sounds marketing-buzzy and may be pretty useless in 5 to 10 years:

XM--it is still hardly out of the question that XM goes the way of Iridium... Plus, if I don't pay the $10/month, it's just something more to get in the way when washing the car.

Bluetooth HFL--Can you say Verizon?

DVD-A (the whole Elliott What's-his-name thing)--this thread says it all. Plus, a bazillion times more audio resolution is only so usable in an environment that starts with an ambient more-or-less-white noise level in the 65+ dBA range and where there truly is some safety imperative to being able to hear something besides the car audio system and the 100+ dB dynamic range on top of the 65+ dB ambient is pretty obviously not all usable--even if the amplifiers and drivers were suitable, you'd blow out your eadrums. Here I realize I've blasphemed and will be flamed for it.

Tajam

$22 for a DVD-A what!?

I've been buying DVD-A's for the same price as a CD $14-$15

I wouldn't be suprised if later on DVD-A's can be read as a CD so all CD players can read them.(They could just place the 2 channel audio on the dvd) The price will stay the same and this would boost sales big time.

Z Factor

You being in Hawaii wouldn't have anything to do with your lack of interest in XM now would it

No flames as you are entitled to your opinion, but I think many of us like the extras that the new TL provides us.

Aloha

DavidNJ

Remember, Acura made these commitments (nav, DVD-A, XM, Bluetooth) in 2000, 01 at the latest. Back then all these things looked great.

Bluetooth is all over: Toyota, Chrysler, BMW. As is XM. DVD-A though seems to be a miss.

acuraddict

I hope you're wrong. I have really enjoyed discovering some great hidden music on DVD-As of a few of my old favorites. I'd love to see more of them come out.

neuronbob

DAMN. That's pretty bad.

I think that as DVD-A gains momentum among automakers trying "me too" maneuvers, the number of DVD-A discs sold will increase. I say, again, though that I hope that Acura will release a universal disc player, and provide some sort of upgrade package for those of us who are early adopters...

MikeRadio

I dont see any technology in the TL that is a miss...

DVD-A I just hope make it... they need compilations.. greatest hits and things like that....

I would pay extra money to hear a BUNCH of songs I like not just one or two on a particular album remastered.

Bluetooth is everywhere now... it is great... once you have it you just love the convience.

XM... 2 years and already 1 and a half million people... most major car manufacturers... its not going anywhere... except maybe to Hawaii

LGG

Actually, that's just where my alter ego lives. I live right here in the heart of Clear Channel country.

Bluetooth may be all over, but the message certainly hasn't gotten to Verizon yet. Lots of vehicles are shipping with XM because the car companies who have invested in it are hoping to cover their investments. What's the net rate of increase in the subscriber base and the churn rate? At the end of the game, that's ALL that matters, not how many worthless receivers there are out there if these two numbers don't pan out and the thing goes under.

Modeler

Well, that's another thing that the article in the Post mentioned. SACD are already available as "hybrid" disks that include a regular CD track. DVD-A is not yet, but they are supposedly working on this hybrid format.

One of the major limitations mentioned by the article is that DVD-A is not readable by much of the existing equipment, and that there are no portable DVD-A players. Also, the DVD-A content is encrypted and you can't copy it. (although I wonder if people have already figured out a way...)

prozzi

I have to say that the first time I heard of DVD-A was when they wrote about the TL for the first time. So maybe it will just take time for people to find out about DVD-A. I was just talking to my friend today who said he bought a disc and asked me if I ever heard about them.

DavidNJ

If they had included a stereo spacial enhancement, it would have been available with the XM radio also.

JonDeutsch

OK guys...

Read and enjoy.

http://www.highfidelityreview.com/ne...umber=19769035

JonDeutsch

DVD-Audio will not likely replace CD. But, it may succeed as a "piggyback" format when they create the hybrid disc this summer.

The hybrid DVD-A will play in all CD players. So, you will buy a CD, and select CDs will also have DVD-A tracks, allowing hi-definition, surround sound materials.

There are challenges, no doubt, but I'm thrilled with the DVD-As I own so far, and I look forward to more in the future. That's the only reason why I want it to succeed... more killer content.

Jon

rhalvers

I will admit that I’m a little disappointed in the music selection available on DVD-A right now. I hadn’t heard about DVD-A until I started looking into the TL. I feel a lot better about the technology now that I have read JonDeutsch’s link to the article.

TZVECL

I agree. It's pretty simple, though:

PUT OUT MORE DAMN DISCS AND WE'LL BUY THEM!!!


Is it just me, or do you guys feel like there is NO SELECTION?

Yes, Rumors is great, love the REM disc, Yes, etc...but we need more.

When will more discs arrive? How about something new? How about maybe one disc in the current top 100? Outkast's older album is great - why not the new one?

I have money to spend, and I feel there is nothing I want.

Am I alone??

żGotJazz?

LGG - You won't be flamed by me. What you state above is 100% fact, not just your opinion. I wanted to say the same thing in another thread, but didn't have the time (I had to get to work, and writing informative postings can take a bit of time if you want to do a halfway decent job of it).

The people who claim that they can hear a significant difference in resolution in the automobile environment due to DVD-A are really hearing the effects of the studio remixing the original multi-channel source into discrete channels. You have 2 channels in one format, and 6 channels in the other. Since you have more channels, and the record companies really love it when you buy multiple copies of the same music, the remixing is bound to sound different - boosting some instruments that may have been more laid-back in the original 2-channel recording.

That's not more resolution. In fact, it's kind of comparing a Granny Smith to a Washington apple. They both taste really good, they both taste like apples, but they don't taste the same. Which one is better? Your personal preference, of course.

My personal preference will tend toward original recordings, whether in 2 channel or 6 channel (DVD 5.1). Why? The artist probably had more creative input into the original recording, whether it was the 2 channel version or the 6 channel one. The remixing efforts are probably not as much what the artist had in mind - and I wonder how much creative input they have in the DVD-A re-releases anyways? Is it the record companies' idea to remix & release a DVD-A, or is it the artist's idea?

rhalvers

I’m currently listening to the Staind, 14 shades of gray on DVD-A. I’m still waiting on my car to be delivered, but it sounds good on the home DVD. I can’t wait to hear it in a true DVD-A sound system. I’ll definitely pick up the disc wielder bronze when it’s available. It sounds like you can get 99 tracks on a single DVD space permitting. I’m wondering if you can separate that into different groups such as albums.

I totally agree with you. Make the DVD-A and I will buy them over CDs from here on out. If given the choice I will buy the same album in DVD-A for a few dollars more then the CD. I can always play them on the home DVD player which sounds as good if not better then my CD player.

MikeRadio

Only General Motors is a major investor in XM.... and XM was around for a year and a half before it was ever in vehicle one as an option with aftermarket radios.. and did great to start...

goofy md

all I know is before I bought this car I had never herd about DVD-A. now I've bought 5. Think about this- if 60,000 TL's are sold, and each person on average buys 3 (if your into it you'll probably buy at least 6 to fill up your disk space) then 180,000 more units get sold this year almost tripling the pervious years sales(100,000). then maybe the industry will see a nee and produce more titles....

Jss1

Regardless of what anyone thinks of DVD-A I am willing to bet that this sort of "actual comparison" thread doesn't exist in any MB, Infiniti, Lexus etc board, except perhaps discussions on why they are paying so much to hear 2 channels instead of 6.

dcarlinf1

This is such bull****. Have you even listened to a DVD-A disc yet? Technology is not "going towards MP3s". They've been around for a long time. It's nothing new. The technology is going towards multi-channel sound recordings, as in DVD-A and SACD. MP3's have very poor quality compared to DVD-A and SACD. Even regular 2-channel CD's are superior. I will put my money (as would most sensible people) in the better sound quality and NOT the ease of use.

LGG

What's "major"? Honda is an $50M investor in XM.
http://www.xmradio.com/newsroom/scre...000_07_10.html

JonDeutsch

GJ...

But now we've gone from facts to opinion, haven't we? Until one of us gets a 2-channel DVD-A and compares it to the same song/piece on a CD in the car, we really won't know if the advanced resolution of the format can be expressed via the system.

Jon

Linnley

This is a great thread.....lotsa passion about this topic. So here is my 2 cents....FIRST : DVD-A is the next logical step for audio. I say this because;
1) the technology to listen to a DVD-A exists already in everyone's home DVD video system. Sure, its only 5.1 or DTS but it is good quality and sounds great - when properly mixed.
2) the "PIRATE" world and the "DOWNLOAD" world is going tobe at a loss - for a while. This is a big factor for SONY, UNIVERSAL etc etc.
3) MORE HARWARE sales!!! All the big manufactures love to sell new H/W to go with new S/W. The internal computers of our music machines are getting faster, better and so why not - just like PC's .... time to upgrade! DVD-A is a shared technology, unlike SACD (just SONY) Thus, it will be accepted.

Anyway........no worries, its all good......LC-out