doogles

Today we had our season's first snow in Pittsburgh. I drove my 6MT home and couldn't get up my driveway (I'll blame this on the ice underneath, rather than the tires or the car). When accelerating up the hill (took me 5 times to get up) the engine would cut out when accelerating--I would get near the top of the hill and would give it more gas to get over the top, but the wheels would not spin, nor would the rpms rev higher. My neighbor noticed it too--is this the VSA kicking in? If so, I would assume that I can turn it off with the button on the dash--I am normally pretty good with snow driving so if I can disable this I think that I will be alright, I can control the car if the wheels spin.

Thanks in advance!

Bluenote

Yes, it sounds like the VSA to me. It doesn't take much tire slip at all to activate the VSA. Did you see the light flashing on your dash when it occured?

doogles

Bluenote,
I didn't see, I was looking to make sure that I wasn't going to slide back down into the traffic at the bottom of the hill. Now that I know what to look for, I'll look next time. Thanks

avs007

Are you able to get a running start? With my car, when we got an ice-storm last year, my car would get stuck in the middle of my inclined driveway, if I crept up the driveway like I normally do, after waiting for the door to open. But if I backed up off the driveway plus another 10 or 15 feet, and just drove up in one motion at about 5-10mph, I made it all the way to the top no problem.

doogles

Yes, I took a running start, 4 times, each time making it longer. The last time I was going about 15 mph up the driveway!

deandorsey

when you are trying to climb a incline in snow/ice, turn off the vsa!

avs007

Maybe you really do need better tires I know my wife's TL always had problems on the snow, until I got her a set of Toyo Proxes.

deandorsey

tires will help, but you still have to turn off the VSA

johnny_software

I had the same problem with my inclined driveway in Pittsburgh last night, and had VSA on. I had no idea that turning it off would actually help! This is my first non-4WD vehicle, so my technique could use a little refinement. Thanks for the tip!

doogles: my TL made some ridiculous noises during this VSA-assisted process. Did you happen to listen to yours? I wasn't sure if it was ABS coming on to control slippage or the throttle cutting out or what.

csunracer

Man am I glad I live in Southern California

Snowwolfe

If you have the stock factory tires you will just spin your wheels (haha). Seriously, The stock tires are utterly worthless in snow and ice. Buy some aftermarket wheels in 16 inch and add the skinniest snow (studded if possible) you can find. The wider the tire the more it "floats" and makes traction next to impossible. Studded tires add another dimension and are so good you will wonder why you never had them.

jdone

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

It is great for turning etc while driving, but while climing inclines at low speeds you really need to turn it off.

VSA really shines in the snow.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

It doesn't snow THAT much in Pgh. No need for 16" studded snow tires.

havokgroup

I'm glad there's no snow here in Texas.

Road Rage

Chicken! Snow driving is a blast - I went to college in New Hampshire, and used to love to do donuts in my VW in the huge off-campus parking lot. Yippeee!

Other than Southern dirt, nothing will teach you how to handle skids, oversteer, etc better than snow. It makes you a better driver, by "feeling" your car, IMHO.

deandorsey

yes! there is nothing better than a large empty parking lot and a fresh snow......

e-brake drifts=good times!

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

I'm worried about the snow this year. A whole lot more horsepower this winter than last.

Prolanman

Take your TL to an empty parking lot with fresh snow and have fun. It will be one of the best ways to feel the car. Many years ago while still in High School the Drivers Ed instructors would take us into empty snow and ice covered parking lots to teach us how to recover from induced skids and spinouts. Ah the good old days.

avs007

Actually, when I was in Germany, I went to the Deutche Museum. There was a display on Stability Control and Traction Control. It actually showed that when trying to climb a snowy/icy incline, you need traction control. Because with an open differential, the tire that is slipping on the ice, will get all the power, causing the car to slide backwards. But with traction control, the ecu will apply the brakes to the wheel that is spinning faster, causing power to go to the other wheel which presumably is slipping less, causing the car to either maintain position, or slowly climb. They even had a demo setup with a BMW 530i on a slippery incline

MR1

Depending on the driveway and your skill level, why not back up the driveway?

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

I have a CL and with 300 wheel horsepower I'd do nothing but spin the tires and melt the snow

Snowwolfe

I was born and raised in Pittsburgh area. It snows often enough my relatives all put on snow tires. Stick tires are just terrible in snow. I wouldnt be caught dead on em. I can't even get my corvette up my drive way when it snows just an inch. The nice thing about buying snow tires and wheels is that your stock tires will probably never wear out as long as you own the car since they are only used 6 months of the year. So the expense isnt near as bad as one thinks.

04TLMan

Ahh another VW driver. I agree totally. I went to school near lake Placid in NY (Clarkson) and there was plenty of snow. Love doing 180s in the middle of the road. That car was great and fun in the snow!!

Now I seem to notice that I could not make it up an incline with my TL when the VSA was off. I was spinning back and forth. When I hit the VSA, it was like majic and the car pulled right up the hill. This is the oppsite of what you guys are saying..

Just needs more playing (err experimenting)

midas69

Unfortunately that depends on whether you keep the car for a long time. I lease and never go through a set of tires within that lease period. So for me paying for a set of snow tires would be an added expense.

But even if I kept the car longer or drove more miles, I still don't see how the math works out if you're buying wheels too. I'm also a little surprised that at your age (our age) you're willing to go through the hassle of swapping tires twice a year. I've had one flat in the last 6 years and that was more trauma than I wanted to deal with


Frankly, I'm real curious to see how the TL handles in the snow. We got a little snow a few weeks ago, but I didn't have to do any driving. We're getting some tonight, but I don't plan on going out to find out if I can help it. But I'm sure eventually I'll have no choice.

Snowwolfe

The math makes sense to me to ad snow tires because the snow tire perform about 10 times better than the stock tires. I like the added control they give and it helps me avoid accidents and getting stuck.

doogles

johnny Software,
No, it didn't make any noises, that is the stangest thing--it went silent, as if the car was asleep. I hit the gas all the way down to the floor, and nothing, no spinning, no revving, nothing.

AVS007--I don't know how the car would slide backward with only one wheel spinning. Maybe in a test lab, yes, but I would think that (in a real driving situation) if I had one wheel getting power and some traction, that the other wheel is bound to hit spots of snow/pavement where it can also get traction, and therefore I could eventually complete the climb. True, the VSA kept me form spinning out, but I had no power to get up the hill, either.

The best answer is to get some snow tires, I agree, but that isn't in the budget for right now. We should have some snow this week so I can do some tests. We had snow yesterday but we had company for the whole day so I didn't get a chance to play around.

avs007

It wasn't a lab situation really. It was a video of the bimmer trying to climb one of the hills in the city. Quite simple in principle really (as long as you don't have an limited slip diff)

When one wheel hits snow, it starts spinning faster. In an open diff, the wheel that spins faster, ALWAYS gets the power. So it wouldn't matter if the other wheel hits dry pavement, it's spinning slower already, so it will never get the power. This is why the car slides backwards. One tire spins like mad, the other tire just rolls backwards, becuase it's not getting power.

With traction control, the ECU will apply the brakes on the tire that's spinning like mad, until it starts spinning SLOWER than the other wheel, which in an open diff setup, forces power to the other wheel, which hopefully has more traction.

ONAGER

KNOW YOUR PARKING LOT

i did this and was having a great time in my 280 zx. however the snow masked a curb stone in the middle of the lot (only 1 by the way) and of course i hit it. blew out the tire and bent the tie rod.... happened when i was 16... i had to explain it to my dad

JohnDoe2

I don't get it.

I thought part of VSA would include "Limited Slip Differential".
If a tire is detected to be spinning, power is applied to the other tire.

Isn't that better for going up hill?

McLardAss

Long-time lurker, first time poster..

This may end up sounding stupid but couldn't find anything in a search or RTFM. Does using reverse buy you anything in traction or stability? Is "pushing" (reverse) the car up in low gear with / without VSA better than going forward?

I usually back out of my steep, 200' dog-legged driveway (which is a breeze using the tilting mirrors) but this morning chickened out. We had a couple inches of ice and snow last night and I decided to drive up in forward with VSA enabled. Should I try reverse?

Last time I backed out in snow I was in a different car with Z-rated slicks on.. I think there are still marks in my front yard were I ended up after sliding 100'

Cheers
joe

SnappyPappy

Let me guess? This fellow is running the all season tires on his vehicle right? THAT's the problem bunkie! Get yerself a snow tire package from "The Tire Rack". Some nice Dunlap M3s' mounted on allow rims (if you have the '04 or '05) the recommended size is 215x55x16. These will look good and make that hill with not even a slip. I'm constantly amazed at how people drive around in snow country with no snows and even bald tires. Jesus, it's only your life depending on that little patch of rubber meeting ice and snow. Maximize your chances . . . End of Rant!

SnappyPappy

Ah Men!! I Always put a set of snows (4) on all my new vehicles. Buy an alloy/snow tire set (The Tire Rack is the best place ) and be down with it. I change them out myself. Then I feel sane and safer! Most people only think snow tires are for moving forward or up hills (hello) they help stop also. My life and peace of mind are worth more than a few hundred dollars. . .

avs007

Actually, I don't think the TL has a LSD. If I remember correctly, the previoud 6MT CL Type-S did. I remember hearing people complaining that when Acura dropped the CL, they dropped the LSD with it. (I could be wrong, but that's how I remember it)

With that being said, an LSD would help quite a bit for climbing a snowy hill.

gbriank

Wasn't the Limited Slip Diff only available with the TL 6 speed?

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

There was no 2nd Gen TL 6-Speed.


The presence of a LSD within the automatic transmission is somewhat of a debate on these forums. Many times if I nail the throttle and enduce wheel spin i'll leave tire marks for 50' or more from both tires (indicating the presence of an LSD). Although the presence of an LSD has never been confirmed except in aftermarket transmssions.

Ken1997TL

Heres the deal:

Its actually your TCS system not the VSA. (VSA corrects the car's path)

The TCS will either limit the throttle and/or brake the slipping wheel(s).

gbriank

mrsteve: I was speaking about the 3 gen TL.

Per Acura's webpage: For those who insist on calling the shots, you'll want the close-ratio, short-throw 6-speed manual transmission, which features a Limited Slip Differential (LSD) for enhanced traction during acceleration, and a Dual-Mass Flywheel for smoothness and control.

So, it appears that only the 6 Speed gets the LSD not the 5 speed auto.

ONAGER

part of the benifit if you row your own....

in a straight line an open differential can burn out both tires. it just cant do it consistantly or if one tire is severly slipping (ice, water, mud) all the power will travel there. if you have the car pointed straight ahead and dump the clutch both tires will rotate. if the both lose traction they will both continue to burn. if one tire hooks and the other doesnt, the lower traction tire will out burn the other. especially noticable around corners as the inside tire unloads, loses grip, and lays down a cloud of smoke.

on a limited slip car even in undesirable traction situations the car can put down more power more consistantly because a mechanical device transfers power for wheels that slip to the wheels that grip. corners are key points the power goes to the outside wheel where it could be of good use. it takes a certain amt of torque variation before the limited slip will work which is why at slow speeds the car can go around corners easily

JPSMAN

I have had times in PA/NY where I turned off the VSA and had better results. Other times, the VSA made a difference in getting going.

In 6 inches or more of snow VSA OFF seemed to work better. In light snow and ice VSA had advantages IMO. The stock tires can be described best as "very average", there are many better A/S tires out there for those that don't want to deal with the seasonal changes. I live in the DC area, but drive in PA/OH/NY 2-3 times a month, so I run decent A/S tires (but not snow tires).

As it has been mentioned in several previous posts, test out the system in different conditions and know how the TL will react. Not only is it fun, but it will improve winter driving skills.