losiglow

iTrader: (1)

I thought I'd share a little experience I had yesterday that made me very thankful for my car (and may help everyone else put things into perspective ). This is a semi-rant as well so pardon the novel.

I frequently hear about the high price of used TL's, especially from those shopping around. Statements such as "I just can't see paying $16,000 for a car with 60K miles on it" seem common. And without considering the alternatives you might get for $16k now a days that might be a legitimate point.

Point in case: I had to drive up to the airport yesterday to pick up my brother in law. He flew out to Denver for a job interview. My wife had driven him up using his car, a 2011 Toyota Yaris, so I figured I'd pick him up. I wanted to drive my car, especially since I installed Richie's HFPC's on Friday and was having fun with that. But with the 50 mile trip up and only having a quarter tank of gas I figured I'd take his car instead even though I knew I wouldn't have much fun with it.

That Yaris had just as many rattles as my TL ever did (before I fixed half of them) and had pretty much zero noise reduction. I couldn't hear myself think once I got on the freeway. And when you close the doors it's the sound of two pieces of sheet metal clanging against one another. And power? The less I talk about that the better. I know the Yaris isn't built to be a powerhouse but when I can't go up a hill faster than 60mph I knew something was wrong. Those gerbels we're running as hard as they could. And talk about plasticy. Be grateful for the refined interior of the TL. "But the mileage must be great!" you say?. It's rated at 29/36. My brother in law says he gets an average of 30, though most of his driving is city. Granted my TL is a manual which helps, but I get no less than an average of 30 combined and that's with 'spirited' driving. I'm not saying I'd get the same mileage with both vehicles. I think I know how to drive to maximize mileage but I doubt I'd get better than 35mpg in the Yaris.

I never really agreed with his decision to buy this car since I felt it was a waste of money. I figured he either should have bought a used reliable vehicle for less $$ or a nicer used vehicle for more $$. I'd even consider a nice new vehicle for a lot more $$. But a new economy vehicle? To me that just seems stupid.

He paid $16,500 for the Yaris while I paid $15,850 for my '06 TL with 60K miles. It sure didn't seem apples to apples IMO. I tried to consider the other issues here since he was newly married and going to school. Reliability, mileage, warranty, low maintenance, etc. Those are probably more important than performance when you're in that situation right? I keep telling myself this but it fails to convince me.

The Yaris is what it is: an economy vehichle that is (probably) very reliable and perfect for someone in my brother in law's situation. Heck, I could easily see getting one for my kid when they go to school. But for $16,000? Hell no. H to the L to the no. Maybe a used one that's 4 years old and costs $8K. Maybe.....

I'm not sure what the moral of this story is. Maybe that you don't always get what you pay for? Or maybe that a warranty and peace of mind is very expensive. Or maybe that if you're prepared, and have the ability to handle minor automotive repairs that you can save a helluva lot of $$$. Maybe all of the above.

glen_one_n

I just sold my 2006 TL for $7k cash on Craigs List in less than one day. The guy got a great looking car that has been meticulously maintained and will run for another 80-100k with proper care and maintainence. I had no reservations selling it and wish I would have had room to keep it "just because" or to aleviate miles on my X5 or Boxster - both purchased pre-owned with miles.

pohljm

7k?

big_mac65

Always good to have another reason why buying the TL was a good decision. This is the first car I have had for multiple years and not have the itch to look for another one. TL FTW!!!

94eg!

Buying new cars is always a poor investment. You pay a huge premium for that privileged alone (and your car instantly becomes "used" too). A used Yaris would probably fare much better in your comparison if not for the price alone. New cars simply aren't worth the extra cost no matter what.

But I agree, the TL is really a fantastic bargain. I paid 24k for my 05 with less than 20k on the clock. And to this day, I couldn't be happier.

ez12a

yep, got my TL for 14k with 52k miles, less than a bare bones honda fit @ MSRP.

lol my friend with a new Kia Forte looked at my car and said "i coulda bought this.."

These cars are a tremendous value.

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

That's what my brother in law said when we took a trip in the TL and talked about prices.

7k? Why so low? No wonder it only took one day.

Insti Gator

I wouldn't complain about the price of a used TL if they didn't cost so much!

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Totally agree with this, I've test driven multiple cars, but NOPE...none inspired me to change from the TL. Totally true, it's not the BEST in any category, but it is awesome in ALL categories. I won't be getting rid of mine any time soon.

J.

Biggie_B

You get 30 mpg with "spirited driving"? I find that rather hard to believe (with or without spirited driving).

truonghthe

that why I go big or go home, with the money I got on my TL-S, I could buy a brand new Subaru instead but I choose to buy the TL-S since i know it will offer more comfort.

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

I did some math before buying the car to account for insurance, payments and extra costs in fuel (economy decrease as well as higher grade fuel). I went with 25mpg as an estimate based on Fueleconomy.gov's numbers. I was pleasantly suprised to get 29mpg on my first tank. I've gotten between 28-32 on every tank since then.



I reset the HID every 1000 miles or so, except when I want to get a specific mpg for a trip. This is just one of many readings before the reset. As you can see, the average MPH is in the 40MPH's. I'm about 50/50 highway/city.

I've got no reason to lie about this

94eg!

I used to get 31 every tank when I lived in Vegas. They have a pretty good/modern stoplight system and the freeways flow pretty well (most of the time).

Now that I moved to reno, it's dropped to 28. Street light system is crap, and the town is so small that I hardly spend any time on the freeway. Still saves me a lot on gas overall because I drive a lot less distance.

BrownBuck

DAMN!!! that's awesome...My best so far as been 25mpg. with ~35mph. what would i give to get 30mpg...AHH!

GottaBeMarc

As a current TL shopper i can say that 'SOME' places are charging too much. $12,000 for a car with 135k miles is TOO much.

I have found some good ones like $13,000 for a 05 with 73k miles.
But again, our cars are built to last

RaviNJCLs

iTrader: (4)

That's why you only get 25 mpg.

My best is just under 31 mpg with an average mph of 64-65. I calculate mine with every fill up. I do not go by the Trip Computer. Typically if the Trip Computer tells me I'm getting 31 mpg I will get about 1.5-2 mpg less. The last 6 or so fill-ups I've gotten between 28-29 mpg.

I've had my TL for 8.5 months, 36K miles and the worse I've gotten was just south of 25 mpg.

IMO, the TL is fairly fuel efficient if you are doing all highway and you're not racing past trucks. If you keep it between 75-80 mph you will usually get around 30.

serbj

iTrader: (1)

I only get ~20 mpg for spirited driving in the city.

94eg!

Come on. If you slow down to 65mph or even 70, you will increase your fuel economy for the simple fact your pushing less air. Everybody knows this. There is no way 75-80mph is the TL's max efficiency speed. I would wager somewhere between 50 and 65 would be ideal. You just have to be able to choose the correct gear for the correct situation (6MT).

My average speeds were in the 40's when I regularly got 31mpg (70mph freeway cruising). Plus I always calculated my mileage and the MID was always spot on. Even when I calculated 29.5, the mid read 30 (which would be the correct way to display as a whole number).

Renescent

During routine driving, is anyone skip-shifting? If so, any difference in the mileage seen?

94eg!

Honda says skip-shifting is bad for your synchros. It's puts the work & wear of 2 synchros into just one. Habitual skip-shifting effectively cuts the life of a synchronizer in half. Not so terrible if it's occurring at low rpm. But when you get into high rpm, you can really eff things up quickly.

dubxrossd11

I got my 04 TL w/Navi last year for $12K with 75k miles on it. The dealer even put on new tires worth about $200 a piece for free. Excellent condition, I love it to death.

RaviNJCLs

iTrader: (4)

I never said that 75-80 is the max efficiency speed. That just happens to be the range I drive and I typically will get about 30 if I am doing all highway. This is just what I have noticed. It may be different for other folks.

I also 100% agree with you that I will probably get better numbers if I drop my speed to 70. I have a heavier foot.

pohljm

why would you sell a vehicle for half of its value?

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

The theories never end as I could ask why you purchased a '06 TL for $16k rather than a 2003 BMW M3 with 90,000 miles for the same price, or even a '08 TL with Nav, 100k miles and the same price. Using your scenario, either of the above sound like a great deal.

To add, many like the new car warranty, some come with 10/100, although the Yaris is a 5/60, and not have other people’s problems so to speak. In that 60,000 miles probably no expenses other than normal maintenance, but on the TL with 60,000 additional miles, you will have some cash outlay, especially the 105k service. Tires cost more, gas cost more and the possibility of repairs with all the electronics will add to the cost.

Just remember, to each their own.

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

Reasons:
BMW: Reliability
08' Type S w/Nav and a 6-speed w/100K miles: Unicorn

No, you're right though. Each scenario has advantages and disadvantages. It's also a matter of preference and priority. Contrary to the majority of people on sites like AZ, many people don't actually care what they drive .I know, I'm suprised as well. For some people, a vehicle is nothing more than a utility; a means of transportation. For those people, the Yaris in this example makes perfect sense.







Actually, . I take that back. 16K for a Yaris is effed up.

ez12a

I think also it's the reasoning behind purchasing used over new. You lose several thousand in the first year of new car ownership just from depreciation alone, on top of spending a premium on a new car.

Buy a used car: no initial depreciation drop, more for the money, an all around better financial decision. The only problem with that is depending on the used car you could be taking it for repair more often. With an Acura you're straying on the safer side.

We're not saying dont pick an M3 or any other used luxury car over a TL, but rather why pick a low end new econobox over any used car when there are perfectly good cars on the market. Yes warranty, but if you pick the right used car you'll be spending what, 1k in maintenance in the first year of ownership? Still under the initial depreciation drop and premium of a new car, and you still lack the luxury and amenities of a higher end car (in comparison to an econobox).

If you really want a econobox why not a used one? They're even cheaper.

Don't get me wrong, it's just a reason to buy used over new. I'm not bashing new car buyers at all. Some just like the new car feel. But it allows us used car buyers to capitalize on the opportunity when they sell.

94eg!

The only downside to being a "used car" buyer, is that the manufactures do NOT take you or your opinion into consideration whatsoever when designing new models. Remember they only build NEW cars. This is why the latest models are less and less appealing to me. Just think about it, I think most drivers of manual cars are smart enough not to waste their money buying brand new. Therefore, less and less manufactures are making cars with a manual option since they simply don't sell cars to those people anyways. It's like we're shooting ourselves in the foot. Fortunately there are already a lot of great cars on the road too choose from. I just don't really see many new ones coming down the line.

Biggie_B

You are a man of your word, good sir! 30 mpg is amazing, I average around 20 driving in New Jersey. And that's 50/50 as well. Mind you my average MPH is closer to 20 than 40, but I am interested to see if I can get my fuel economy up to 30 if I drive around 45 mph. To the batmobile!

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

If your average MPH is around 20 you probably encounter a lot more stop and go than I do which would explain the mileage differences. While I'm 50% city, most of that is on a major road in the Salt Lake valley with fairly well timed lights. Whenever I go down to Utah county I get worse mileage since none of their lights are synchronized.

wise_optimist

this!

You gotta remember more than half of people driving around are point A to point B type. They don't care how they get there, as long as they get there, without being stranded. A lot of people (700,000+) buy Corollas and Camrys without test driving them. How a car drives doesn't matter to them.

Bpark36

i have a 2008 TL base 3.2 with AEM CAI. i reset the mpg and hit the highway for work. Over 15 miles i averaged 38 mpg. (babyfooting it and coasting) i have a pic also. i was amazed. before CAI i could squeeze 34 to 35 mpg baby footin it. Cruising at 65 the whole time. now when i drive regular/sprinted 85+ mph its more like 30 mpg. stop and go traffic is what kills this cars mpg. The TL def loves cruisin at 65 and is much better on the highway.

SmileyOr

I sure hope Chevrolet has this figured into the build quality of 4th gear syncro in the Corvettes. The C6's are designed to go from 1st to 4th to conserve fuel. It's written into the driver's manual.

Jase13

I recently bought a 2007 TL with 90,000 for 14,995. I think that was a hell of a deal considering NADA has it worth 20,000 and I fall in love with this car more and more everyday. I have driven and owned nothing but VW's but since I bought this TL, I don't think I will ever drive anything else. I get so many damn compliments as well.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Naturally, this was a TSB long ago:
To Prolong M/T Life, Shift Gears by the Numbers
NOTE: This article applies to ’03 CLs, ’91–04 NSXs,
’02–04 RSXs, ’04 TLs, and ’04 TSXs.
Regardless of what’s commonly thought, skip
shifting is punishing to an M/T. Those flicks of the
gearshift from 2nd to 5th gear or from 3rd to 5th
gear can speed up synchro wear, leading to some
nasty gear grinding over time. To avoid problems,
and to prolong the M/T’s service life, advise your
customers to shift through the gears in sequence
(by the numbers), and don’t speed shift or power
shift.

caseyjones

This has always been my theory.

The first car I ever paid for was an '02 Accord Coupe. I paid like $7500 for it with 78,000 miles and it had leather, moonroof, V6, 6-disc changer, etc. One of my friends at the same time paid $8000 for a 2008 Chevy Aveo. No power anything, it didn't even have a cd player.

After that I paid 16K for an '06 Accord coupe V6 6mt with 30k miles, fully loaded. I could have bought like a new Honda Fit or something for that price.

Lastly I bought my TL. It was like 21k with 50k miles. My TL has every option. I have a friend who just bought a brand new Nissan Sentra for 22k. It does have power everything, bluetooth, and intellikey, but nothing else, not even alloy wheels. She hates it but is stuck with it because she is so upside down. It's only one year old and is only worth about 15K now.

That is one thing I will never understand. Why would someone pay for a "cheap" new car when you can buy a really nice used car? But it's not my problem so whatever haha.

n3o

iTrader: (2)

A Black 6spd Type S recently sold for 14,9 @ an audi dealer in my state. I was on my way to look at it/buy it when they called me and told me it had sold....fml.

Deerole

20k w 90,000 ...they got their shyt wrong...if thats the case ill know never to look to NADA for value

glen_one_n

I forgot to include the fact that the TL had 170,000 Miles

glen_one_n

A car is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.....

KBB and NADA have lost much of their validity now as Dealers and websites use them as a marketing tool. I noticed the values seemed inflated on the private seller and retail end once they became widely available to the public. The wholesale or trade in values are an accurate starting point.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

^^that is very true.